itespace changes, I've been running this for
a good while. The patch was I think originally posted by
Alexandre to ceph-users, and I believe there are several others
using it.
--
Alex Bligh
afterwards.
How would you capture the state of emulated hardware which might not
be in the guest RAM?
--
Alex Bligh
tation. I'll do that.
--
Alex Bligh
parameters which are not possible
to specify through the qemu-img convert command line.
Signed-off-by: Alexandre Derumier
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
qemu-img-cmds.hx |4 ++--
qemu-img.c | 39 ---
qemu-img.texi| 15 ++-
3 files changed
e git commit --amend --author="Name ".)
Per IRC conversation with you and kwolf, done the way you suggested
in patchv4 just posted.
--
Alex Bligh
() just marks the alarm timer as expired/pending
and notifies the main loop using qemu_notify_event().
Therefore these outdated comments about signal safety can be dropped.
Signed-off-by: Stefan Hajnoczi
Reviewed-by: Alex Bligh
---
qemu-timer.c | 4
1 file changed, 4 deletions(-)
diff
ers() works fine today but is also not thread-safe.
The purpose of this patch is to eventually let device models set or
cancel timers from a vcpu thread without holding the global mutex.
Signed-off-by: Stefan Hajnoczi
Reviewed-by: Alex Bligh
---
include/qemu/timer.h | 17 ++
q
x27;t even get a warning for that. Learn a new thing every
day. OK will fix. I guess that means timer.h needs to explicitly
include typedefs.h in case whatever is including timer.h does
not first include typedefs.h.
--
Alex Bligh
Jan,
On 12 Aug 2013, at 17:40, Jan Kiszka wrote:
> On 2013-08-11 18:43, Alex Bligh wrote:
>> include/qemu/timer.h has no need to include main-loop.h and
>> doing so causes an issue for the next patch. Unfortunately
>> various files assume including timers.h will pull in mai
On 12 Aug 2013, at 18:04, Richard Henderson wrote:
> On 08/12/2013 09:25 AM, Alex Bligh wrote:
>> You mean one can't do
>>
>> typedef struct foo foo;
>> ...
>> typedef struct foo {
>> ...
>> } foo;
>>
>> ?
>
>
re
>> other comments on v9.
>
> No, it's okay. Unless you want to remove the callback and use
> aio_notify everywhere.
I wrapped it anyway in v10. No harm done.
--
Alex Bligh
uff in but that's not needed
yet.
You should just be able to run scripts/switch-timer-api [list of files]
and it should convert your source code to the new timer API. I would
be interested to know whether this works.
--
Alex Bligh
ded them. IE everything
would already be unlocked prior to calling qemu_poll_ns.
I suppose both would work.
--
Alex Bligh
when
another thread can add timers).
I think stefanha disagrees this is a bug though :-)
--
Alex Bligh
in this
series:
http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/qemu-devel/2013-07/msg00092.html
In this case, I'm not sure it makes a great deal of difference in
practice as you'll need an eventfd or something similar to signal
to the thread that it should exit, I presume.
--
Alex Bligh
-/* No AIO operations? Get us out of here */
-if (!busy) {
+/* early return if we only have the aio_notify() fd */
+if (!blocking && (ctx->pollfds->len == 1)) {
return progress;
}
And perhaps <=1 for safety.
--
Alex Bligh
'drop ioflush' stuff
is merged, without doing an audit, I doubt there is any
existing code which uses an AioContext with just its
notifier fd, and is calls aio_poll with blocking=1. If there is,
I doubt that code does anything useful :-)
--
Alex Bligh
mu_coroutine_self());
Pointless whitespace change.
--
Alex Bligh
As far as I can see VM1 could read an incomplete write from
the cache file.
Further, unless you're opening these files O_DIRECT, how do you
know half the writes from VM1 won't be sitting dirty in the page
cache when you read using VM2?
--
Alex Bligh
page references in sequential order.
(Hence, pages in the given range can be aggressively
read ahead, and may be freed soon after they
are accessed.)
--
Alex Bligh
Kaveh,
On 14 Aug 2013, at 12:28, Kaveh Razavi wrote:
> On 08/14/2013 12:53 AM, Alex Bligh wrote:
>> What is this cache keyed on and how is it invalidated? Let's say a
>> 2 VM on node X boot with backing file A. The first populates the cache,
>> and the second utilises t
On 14 Aug 2013, at 12:42, Kaveh Razavi wrote:
> On 08/14/2013 01:16 AM, Alex Bligh wrote:
>> The above para implies you intend one cache file to be shared by
>> two VMs booting from the same backing image on the same node.
>> If that's true, how do you protect y
if a write has been done since bdrv_open.
--
Alex Bligh
VMs to share it. Any other VMs
starting before the cache was populated simply fail to get the
exclusive lock and go direct to the backing file.
--
Alex Bligh
t be sufficient. After all, if a VM takes more than
60 seconds to boot and does not fill the cache quota in that time,
I think we can assume the cache isn't going to do it much good!
--
Alex Bligh
On 15 Aug 2013, at 01:53, Fam Zheng wrote:
> On Wed, 08/14 13:03, Alex Bligh wrote:
>>
>> On 14 Aug 2013, at 12:52, Fam Zheng wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, this one sounds good to have. VMDK and VHDX have this kind of
>>> backing file status validation.
>>
est I can do is simply take the lock, examine the
timer at the head of the list (always), remove the
timer from the active list, unlock, and call the callback.
That's exactly what the patch does.
(side note: you can't just splice the lists because they
have to be ordered)
--
Alex Bligh
On 15 Aug 2013, at 13:30, Stefan Hajnoczi wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 05:43:13PM +0100, Alex Bligh wrote:
>> @@ -314,7 +314,18 @@ void qemu_clock_warp(QEMUClock *clock)
>> }
>>
>> vm_clock_warp_start = qemu_get_clock_ns(rt_clock);
>> -deadli
inced
where this one fits. If it fits, then fine, but that probably
should be part of unifying the event loop rather than the timers
series (personal opinion obviously).
--
Alex Bligh
ruct vs struct in header files
* (Possibly) delete spurious cap on timeout in cpus.c (see thread
on patch 19).
If no one has any other comments, I will roll v11 either tonight
or tomorrow.
--
Alex Bligh
On 15 Aug 2013, at 13:37, Alex Bligh wrote:
>> I see no value in a spurious wakeup if no deadline was set, but it's
>> harmless.
>>
>> As for overflow, I don't really understand how INT32_MAX prevents
>> overflow. If the base timer value we're addi
+627,9 @@ tcp_listen(Slirp *slirp, uint32_t haddr, u_int hport,
You appear to have introduced an additional character at the top of
the file.
--
Alex Bligh
Rename qemu_new_clock to qemu_clock_new.
Expose clock types.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
include/qemu/timer.h |4
qemu-timer.c | 12
2 files changed, 8 insertions(+), 8 deletions(-)
diff --git a/include/qemu/timer.h b/include/qemu/timer.h
index a9afdb3
Add QEMUTimerListGroup and helper functions, to represent
a QEMUTimerList associated with each clock. Add a default
QEMUTimerListGroup representing the default timer lists
which are not associated with any other object (e.g.
an AioContext as added by future patches).
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
Rename four functions in preparation for new API.
Rename qemu_timer_expired to timer_expired
Rename qemu_timer_expire_time_ns to timer_expire_time_ns
Rename qemu_timer_pending to timer_pending
Rename qemu_timer_expired_ns to timer_expired_ns
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
backends/baum.c
Where supported, called prctl(PR_SET_TIMERSLACK, 1, ...) to
set one nanosecond timer slack to increase precision of timer
calls.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
configure| 18 ++
qemu-timer.c |7 +++
2 files changed, 25 insertions(+)
diff --git a/configure b
include/qemu/timer.h has no need to include main-loop.h and
doing so causes an issue for the next patch. Unfortunately
various files assume including timers.h will pull in main-loop.h.
Untangle this mess.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
dma-helpers.c |1 +
hw/dma/xilinx_axidma.c
Make treatment of disabled clocks consistent in deadline calculation
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
qemu-timer.c |2 +-
1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)
diff --git a/qemu-timer.c b/qemu-timer.c
index df8f12b..be29adf 100644
--- a/qemu-timer.c
+++ b/qemu-timer.c
@@ -264,7 +264,7
Add a notify pointer to QEMUTimerList so it knows what to notify
on a timer change.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
async.c |7 ++-
include/qemu/timer.h | 27 +++
qemu-timer.c | 31 ---
3 files changed, 53
when ppoll is not used.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
include/qemu/timer.h | 42 ++
qemu-timer.c | 50 ++
2 files changed, 92 insertions(+)
diff --git a/include/qemu/timer.h b/include/qemu/timer.h
Calculate the timeout in aio_ctx_prepare taking into account
the timers attached to the AioContext.
Alter aio_ctx_check similarly.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
async.c | 13 +++--
1 file changed, 11 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)
diff --git a/async.c b/async.c
index 2b9ba9b..d8656cc
ot use a global list of qemu clocks
* Add AioContext * to QEMUClock
* Split up conversion to use ppoll and timers
* Indentation fix
* Fix aio_win32.c aio_poll to return progress
* aio_notify / qemu_notify when timers are modified
* change comment in deprecation of clock options
Alex Bligh (31):
aio / t
Add qemu_poll_ns which works like g_poll but takes a nanosecond
timeout.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
configure| 19 +++
include/qemu/timer.h | 12
qemu-timer.c | 24
3 files changed, 55 insertions(+)
diff --git a
On qemu_mod_timer_ns, ensure qemu_notify or aio_notify is called to
end the appropriate poll(), irrespective of use_icount value.
On qemu_clock_enable, ensure qemu_notify or aio_notify is called for
all QEMUTimerLists attached to the QEMUClock.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
include/qemu
Convert mainloop to use timeout from default timerlist group
(i.e. the current 3 static timers)
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
main-loop.c | 45 ++---
1 file changed, 34 insertions(+), 11 deletions(-)
diff --git a/main-loop.c b/main-loop.c
index a44fff6
Remove qemu_clock_deadline and qemu_timerlist_deadline now we are using
the ns functions throughout.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
include/qemu/timer.h | 16
qemu-timer.c | 20
2 files changed, 36 deletions(-)
diff --git a/include/qemu/timer.h
is used in the next
patch.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
include/qemu/timer.h | 348 ++
qemu-timer.c | 207 ++
2 files changed, 476 insertions(+), 79 deletions(-)
diff --git a/include/qemu/timer.h b/include/qe
Introduce new API for creating timers - timer_new and
_ns, _ms, _us derivatives.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
include/qemu/timer.h | 69 ++
1 file changed, 69 insertions(+)
diff --git a/include/qemu/timer.h b/include/qemu/timer.h
index 619b7a2
Convert block_job_sleep_ns and co_sleep_ns to use the new timer
API.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
block/backup.c|4 ++--
block/commit.c|2 +-
block/mirror.c|4 ++--
block/stream.c|2 +-
blockjob.c|4
Add a test harness for AioContext timers. The g_source equivalent is
unsatisfactory as it suffers from false wakeups.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
tests/test-aio.c | 136 ++
1 file changed, 136 insertions(+)
diff --git a/tests/test-aio.c b
Add utility functions qemu_clock_get_ms and qemu_clock_get_us
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
include/qemu/timer.h | 28
1 file changed, 28 insertions(+)
diff --git a/include/qemu/timer.h b/include/qemu/timer.h
index 3e9506c..63b964f 100644
--- a/include/qemu
Convert rtc_clock to be a QEMUClockType
Move rtc_clock users to use the new API
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
hw/arm/omap1.c|4 ++--
hw/arm/pxa2xx.c | 35 +++
hw/arm/strongarm.c| 10 +-
hw/timer/m48t59.c
Add documentation for existing qemu timer calls. Add new format
calls of the format timer_XXX rather than qemu_XXX_timer
for consistency.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
include/qemu/timer.h | 206 --
1 file changed, 184 insertions(+), 22 deletions
Remove alarm timers from qemu-timers.c now we use g_poll / ppoll
instead.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
include/qemu/timer.h |3 -
main-loop.c |4 -
qemu-timer.c | 500 +-
vl.c |4 +-
4 files changed
Add scripts/switch-timer-api to programatically rewrite source
files to use the new timer system.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
scripts/switch-timer-api | 178 ++
1 file changed, 178 insertions(+)
diff --git a/scripts/switch-timer-api b/scripts
always set an icount clock expiry
about 2 seconds ahead.
NB: thread safety - when different timerlists sit on different
threads, this will need some locking.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
cpus.c | 46 +-
include/qemu/timer.h | 13
Remove the legacy interface from include/qemu/timers.h.
Ensure struct QEMUClock is not exposed at all.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
include/qemu/timer.h | 214 +-
qemu-timer.c | 35 +
2 files changed, 5 insertions(+), 244
Rearrange timer.h so it is in order by function type.
Make legacy functions call non-legacy functions rather than vice-versa.
Convert cpus.c to use new API.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
cpus.c | 112 -
hw/acpi/piix4.c |2 +-
hw/input/tsc2005.c |4 +-
hw
Now we have timerlistgroups implemented and main_loop_tlg, we
no longer need the concept of a default timer list associated
with each clock. Remove it and simplify initialisation of
clocks and timer lists.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
include/qemu/timer.h |6 +
qemu-timer.c
Add a QEMUTimerListGroup each AioContext (meaning a QEMUTimerList
associated with each clock is added) and delete it when the
AioContext is freed.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
async.c |2 ++
include/block/aio.h |4
tests/test-aio.c |3 +++
tests
Add aio_timer_init and aio_timer_new wrapper functions.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
include/block/aio.h | 43 +++
1 file changed, 43 insertions(+)
diff --git a/include/block/aio.h b/include/block/aio.h
index 84d7366..d19d9d2 100644
--- a/include
aio.c where an
assert was backwards.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
aio-posix.c | 20 +---
aio-win32.c | 22 +++---
tests/test-aio.c |4 ++--
3 files changed, 34 insertions(+), 12 deletions(-)
diff --git a/aio-posix.c b/aio-posix.c
index b6
Make qemu_run_timers and qemu_run_all_timers return progress
so that aio_poll etc. can determine whether a timer has been
run.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
include/qemu/timer.h | 21 +++--
qemu-timer.c | 18 --
2 files changed, 31 insertions(+), 8
Yup. The timer code change has uncovered some bugs in the way timers
were used. You might want to see whether any timers are being set with
zero or very small timeouts continuously (for instance).
--
Alex Bligh
signature.asc
Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail
receive side it says the peer
aborted the send. What's the best way to debug this further?
--
Alex Bligh
for the
virtio-net-pci.rom (and indeed anything else that I might come across).
Is this a profitable route of investigation, or should I just give up now and
assume live migration between 1.0 and 2.0 is impossible?
--
Alex Bligh
[1] Use to start the VM on qemu 1.0
/usr/bin/kvm -name vm -uuid
with a command line option just
for the migrated machines? Obviously when they reboot, they'l get a hardware
change (which is fine). Obviously the iPXE ROM makes no difference when the
machine is running, it's purely the size which is causing an issue.
--
Alex Bligh
Paolo,
On 19 Jul 2014, at 08:30, Paolo Bonzini wrote:
> Il 19/07/2014 09:10, Alex Bligh ha scritto:
>>>> Looks like your source and destination machines have different
>>>> iPXE ROMs. This could be a packaging problem in your distro.
>>
>> This is Ub
On 19 Jul 2014, at 09:54, Peter Maydell wrote:
> On 19 July 2014 09:43, Alex Bligh wrote:
>> Whilst (per below) your workaround gets past the issue for this ROM,
>> I'm confused about the numbers in the error message, as 64k and
>> 128k do not equal 10,000 or 20,000
!= 0x2
Correct the error string to reflect this.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
arch_init.c |4 ++--
1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)
diff --git a/arch_init.c b/arch_init.c
index 8ddaf35..28ece76 100644
--- a/arch_init.c
+++ b/arch_init.c
@@ -1072,8 +1072,8 @@ static int ram_load
s from 12.04 - the previous LTS version);
>> whether or not it is upstreamed won't be up to me though.
>
> Yes, because Ubuntu hardly introduces any new feature during the LTS
> support period.
My guess is they will take a non-intrusive SRU which provides the
ability for live migrates to work. However, if not we will just
maintain it out of tree (like we were doing for various other
qemu bits).
> But in 2 years you will have to endure roughly the same
> pain.
I am aware of this.
--
Alex Bligh
m if I do?
>> My guess is they will take a non-intrusive SRU which provides the
>> ability for live migrates to work. However, if not we will just
>> maintain it out of tree (like we were doing for various other
>> qemu bits).
>
> Quite frankly: good luck.
Your best wishes are appreciated :-)
--
Alex Bligh
Paolo,
On 21 Jul 2014, at 15:11, Paolo Bonzini wrote:
> Il 21/07/2014 15:59, Alex Bligh ha scritto:
>>>>>> My guess is they will take a non-intrusive SRU which provides the
>>>>>> ability for live migrates to work. However, if not we will just
>>>
ch for some reason doesn't
show up) where the two I hit, after manually fixing the rom sizes
stuff on the command line.
Apparently "flags" and "channels" are pseudonyms. The piix4_m thing
is that qemu-kvm-1.0 is actually using version 3 but says it's
using version 2, which is perhaps why it doesn't show up in your
test.
--
Alex Bligh
mismatch flagged.
Don't think I am
a) because I'm using qemu-kvm-1.0, not qemu-1.0. You looked at qemu-1.0
in the previous message; that's not directly relevant for what I'm
looking at as my source is qemu-kvm-1.0 (qemu vs qemu-kvm).
b) because I wasn't actually using your Json, but testing what made the
thing load in real life!
--
Alex Bligh
nk it does) I'd expect to see it
in the list of differences (i.e. your second email), if your
tool looks at that too.
--
Alex Bligh
t
I don't quite understand whether Amit's checker is designed to pick
up all three situations as different, or whether it (quite reasonably)
expects people to play ball with version numbers.
--
Alex Bligh
Add a machine type pc-1.0-qemu-kvm for live migrate compatibility
with qemu-kvm version 1.0.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
hw/acpi/piix4.c | 49 --
hw/i386/pc_piix.c| 31 +
hw/timer/i8254_common.c
ping: anyone got any views on this one?
On 22 Jul 2014, at 19:43, Alex Bligh wrote:
> Add a machine type pc-1.0-qemu-kvm for live migrate compatibility
> with qemu-kvm version 1.0.
>
> Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
> ---
> hw/acpi/piix4
On 22 Jul 2014, at 19:43, Alex Bligh wrote:
> I have not (yet) brought forward the qxl rom size (and possibly
> video ram) changes in Cole's patches as I'd prefer an assessment
> of whether this is the right approach first.
Whilst vga=cirrus, and vga=none I appear to be abl
machine
xenpvXen Para-virtualized PC
pc-q35-1.5 Standard PC (Q35 + ICH9, 2009)
pc-1.0-qemu-kvm Standard PC (i440FX + PIIX, 1996)
pc-q35-1.6 Standard PC (Q35 + ICH9, 2009)
pc-0.12 Standard PC (i440FX + PIIX, 1996)
pc-1.3 Standard PC (i440FX + PIIX, 1996)
--
Alex Bligh
On 22 Jul 2014, at 19:43, Alex Bligh wrote:
> Testing has been light to date (i.e.
> can I migrate it inbound with -S without anything complaining).
I've given this quite a bit more testing today.
It works fine qemu-kvm 1.0 -> qemu-2.0+patch (cirrus vga)
It works fine qemu-2.0
juries relating to ROM size changes. If life is
more complicated, libvirt (and other callers) will
need to be aware. pc-1.0-qemu-git and pc-1.0-qemu-kvm
can be used to unambiguously mean the relevant machine
type, which will fix things going forward for that
machine type.
WDYT?
--
Alex Bligh
s comment re waiting for the
release to ship.
--
Alex Bligh
at break migration from 14.04 *with* the big
ROM?
--
Alex Bligh
) but I think it should only be used when the legacy machine type
is used or it will break inbound migrations from other 14.04 machines
started with 128k ROMs (AIUI).
--
Alex Bligh
On 29 Jul 2014, at 14:42, Paolo Bonzini wrote:
> Il 29/07/2014 15:39, Alex Bligh ha scritto:
>>>> I'm not sure either. You could simply package the 12.04 ipxe ROMs into
>>>> 14.04, and add a note about getting the sources for GPL friendliness.
>> This
or me (with
my 'LTS user' hat on), i.e. make it 'just work' out the box.
--
Alex Bligh
sing the point and is the issue that 2.2
is actually different to 2.1, not in the machine
type definition, but in what is sent within the
migrated data? If so, a commit message to this
effect might be helpful.
--
Alex Bligh
entually the guest broke and gave an oops type thing which
I didn't even bother to copy down - repeated lines showing it trying to
sync up clocks by increasing numbers of microseconds and
finally giving up.
--
Alex Bligh
ill not
migrate properly due to a fundamental difference in their internal
state between versions.
Also note that (as expected) migratino from qemu-2.x to qemu-1.0
will not work, even if the machine types are the same.
Alex Bligh (2):
Add machine type pc-1.0-qemu-kvm for live migrate compatibility wi
Add a machine type pc-1.0-qemu-kvm for live migrate compatibility
with qemu-kvm version 1.0.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
hw/acpi/piix4.c | 49 --
hw/i386/pc_piix.c| 31 +
hw/timer/i8254_common.c
.
Signed-off-by: Alex Bligh
---
configure | 12
hw/i386/pc_piix.c |8 +++-
2 files changed, 19 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)
diff --git a/configure b/configure
index f7685b5..b143302 100755
--- a/configure
+++ b/configure
@@ -335,6 +335,7 @@ libssh2=""
vhdx=
On 4 Aug 2014, at 14:31, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 01, 2014 at 08:12:11PM +0100, Alex Bligh wrote:
>> This patch series adds inbound migrate capability from qemu-kvm version
>> 1.0. The main ideas are those set out in Cole Robinson's patch here:
>> htt
atch #2 does.
I fully agree it is not pretty.
So I am not sure why
-machine pc-1.0,qemu-kvm-compatibility=on
is any easier for libvirt than
-machine pc-1.0-qemu-kvm
IE what does using a machine property rather than
a machine type buy us?
--
Alex Bligh
vmstate
fields is permissible then clearly I have a few more
degrees of freedom.
I did try modifying the objects live after the command
line has been parsed; this doesn't work because the
QOM inheritance memcpy's the structs for classes derived
from i8254 etc.
--
Alex Bligh
it can dynamically
choose not to use the load_state_old but rather to
use the new method, irrespective of the minimum version
mismatch?
--
Alex Bligh
proper version 3 object?
--
Alex Bligh
think that was the cause of my failure.
Whilst getting the patch right in the first place I tend to
cp from a known good image. Obviously once it works, qcow2
corruption should not happen. But failed migrations (with
or without my patch) do appear to cause this relatively
frequently.
--
Alex Bligh
#x27;s good news. You might try the 2 patches here:
https://github.com/abligh/qemu/tree/livemigrate-qemu-kvm-to-qemu-2.0.0-test-2
and see if you can get Precise to Trusty migration working (as well
as Precise to Utopic)
--
Alex Bligh
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