Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

Let's get a few things out in the open: 1. This shouldn't need saying, but the python-uk making list is here to serve the Python community in the United Kingdom. As the key usage of Python by a large chunk of that community is gainful employment those of us I've spoken to in person all seem to agr

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 4:10 AM, Daniele Procida wrote: > >Had Sophie made an effort, perhaps I might have been more accommodating. > As > >it stands, I've no interest in dealing with lazy recruitment agents. > > This is rudeness bordering on abuse, and it's definitely not acceptable on > this ema

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

On Wed, 7 Dec 2016 at 04:19 Daniele Procida wrote: > It wasn't spam. We have discussed several times whether recruitment > messages are welcome here. To date, we've not come to any consensus that > they are not. > Ok, lets take the position it wasn't spam. If you received the OPs email, directly

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016, Richard Smith wrote: >On Wed, 7 Dec 2016 at 04:19 Daniele Procida wrote: > >> It wasn't spam. We have discussed several times whether recruitment >> messages are welcome here. To date, we've not come to any consensus that >> they are not. >> > >Ok, lets take the position it

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

Wow, another community lists degenerates into PC hand wringing, this time as a result of a lazy recruiter spamming the list. I find the asymmetry of all this ironic: a recruiter spamming a list and then throwing a hissy fit when people light heartedly jest about the post, followed by 30+ messa

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

> On 7 Dec 2016, at 10:31, Richard Smith wrote: > > What was rude about it? We should expect recruitment agents to do a little > work to gain our trust. There are far too many bad agents in the world who > think it's acceptable to cold-call, spam, bully, edit CVs, fake candidates > and many u

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

I think this is exchange is clear proof that the list requires a Code of Conduct. Does the list-owner agree, and if so, can we discuss a process for enacting one to move this conversation in a more productive direction? Kaitlyn > On 7 Dec 2016, at 10:55, Cory Benfield (Lukasa) wrote: > > >>

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

On Wed, Dec 07, 2016 at 10:31:56AM +, Richard Smith wrote: > Ok, lets take the position it wasn't spam. If you received the OPs > email, directly, would you require a little more information in the > post other than a technology stack and a carrot on a stick? The way this generally works is t

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

On Wed, Dec 07, 2016 at 10:57:51AM +, Kaitlyn Tierney wrote: > I think this is exchange is clear proof that the list requires a Code of > Conduct. Does the list-owner agree, and if so, can we discuss a process for > enacting one to move this conversation in a more productive direction? +1 >

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016, at 10:57 AM, Kaitlyn Tierney wrote: > I think this is exchange is clear proof that the list requires a Code of > Conduct. Does the list-owner agree, and if so, can we discuss a process > for enacting one to move this conversation in a more productive > direction? Following the

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

I’m happy not to have recruitment messages on the discussion list. We all get inundated with enough of them as it is, and anyone actively looking for opportunities would probably be smart enough to visit https://pythonjobs.github.io/ or attend a Dojo and chat wit

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

This topic comes around every couple of years or so... If memory serves me correctly, most people have thus far agreed posting jobs is fine (assuming they're comprehensively described and not obvious recruitment spam). On 07/12/16 11:16, Kaitlyn Tierney wrote: > I’m happy not to have recruitment m

Re: [python-uk] python-uk Digest, Vol 160, Issue 13

Hey Guys, I would really like to put an end to this now as everyone is busy, plus its slightly depressing watching people who don;t know me at all say mean things about me on here. As a response to anyone thinking we recruiters are lazy etc I would like to say its very hard to write something that

[python-uk] What trends should we watch Python during 2017..?

I've been asked to answer this. I've already replied but I wonder what the wider community think..? My response mentioned: * MicroPython bringing Python to embedded / IoT communities (and such communities into the Python world). * Python 2 / Python 3 (a perennial) * Python in education: with th

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

> On 7 Dec 2016, at 11:49, Daniele Procida wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016, Richard Smith wrote: > >> What was rude about it? > > Referring to a person as a "lazy recruitment agent" is rude. > >> Sophie is >> going to have to prove that she can be a trusted agent. > > Sophie doesn't have to

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

I would prefer not to hold other people to a higher standard than I hold myself. I know I'm certainly guilty of sending an email in a rush before, and later seeing that it wasn't perfect. The matter of the email's spelling being raked up again and again, when Sophie has apologised for it, and poin

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

On Wed, 7 Dec 2016 at 10:56 Cory Benfield (Lukasa) wrote: For future reference, I did criticise the work... and was then accused of being rude about my personal summary dismissal of the quality of the recruiter based on the evidence available. Furthermore a CoC is not the way forward. CoC's val

Re: [python-uk] What trends should we watch Python during 2017..?

Hi, Not a trend, but perhaps interesting to someone... I'm still working on Pyxie[1] - a Python to C++ compiler - which targets embedded systems. The idea is to allow python code to run on platforms too small for micropython - for example devices with 8K Flash & 1K RAM :-) [1] http://sparkslabs

Re: [python-uk] What trends should we watch Python during 2017..?

I'm cautiously optimistic about http://mypy-lang.org/ though I'd prefer not to have values as type annotations. I think the JS community demonstrated that retrofitting types can be done in a principled and nice way with TypeScript and flow so maybe we can do that, too. On 7 December 2016 at 11

Re: [python-uk] What trends should we watch Python during 2017..?

> On 7 Dec 2016, at 11:24, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > > Care to add anything else..? What about technical things to watch out > for..? Will Larry complete his Gilectomey..? For my part, I think there’s a lot of really interesting work going on in the asynchronous networking space in Python,

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

Since this list is run via a python.org server I'd imagine there's at least implicit consent by members to the Python Community Code of Conduct at https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/. The three headings are "Open," "Considerate" and "Respectful". Clearly there is no agreement on those terms a

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016, Richard Smith wrote: > > >For future reference, I did criticise the work... and was then accused of >being rude about my personal summary dismissal of the quality of the >recruiter based on the evidence available. > >Furthermore a CoC is not the way forward. CoC's validate th

[python-uk] Code of Conduct

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016, Kaitlyn Tierney wrote: >I think this is exchange is clear proof that the list requires a Code of >Conduct. Does the list-owner agree, and if so, can we discuss a process >for enacting one to move this conversation in a more productive direction? Unfortunately I think we need

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

On Wed, 7 Dec 2016 at 12:33 Daniele Procida wrote: > So, you are literally saying that the only way to get by here is by being > a man. > > I see Sophie's problem all too clearly. *blink*[0] Words escape me to explain quite how moronic that statement is. Let me rephrase for your benefit[1]: F

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

> On 7 Dec 2016, at 12:49, Alistair Broomhead > wrote: > > I would prefer not to hold other people to a higher standard than I hold > myself. I know I'm certainly guilty of sending an email in a rush before, and > later seeing that it wasn't perfect. It happens to everyone; a simple “Oops,

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

Great heavens, I'd have thought it was obvious that anyone telling a woman to "get a pair of balls" clearly has trouble perceiving women and men through the same set of filters. And now you involve the deity, albeit as a free variable. Then you interpret civil (though critical) comments about your

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 12:33 PM, Richard Barran wrote: > I am reading your last 2 sentences and I hope I’m horribly > misunderstanding your post; I’m reading that you are implying that I was > picking on someone’s disability. Could you just confirm that I’ve got it > completely wrong? > I'd have

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016, at 11:54 AM, Richard Smith wrote: > > ... > For getattr(universe, 'deity')'s sake, grow some balls and talk > to people. ... > Words escape me to explain quite how moronic that statement is. Now you are unquestionably being rude to first Cory, then Daniele. The more mes

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

Once again, the volume of discussion on whether recruitment emails are appropriate for the list is larger than the volume of recruitment emails we get on this list On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 4:19 AM +, "Daniele Procida" mailto:dani...@vurt.org>> wrote: On Tue, Dec 6, 2016, Richard Smith

[python-uk] Announcing the Yorkshire Inquisition

I believe I am one of the original founding list admins, after 20-odd years. Sadly, the other, John Pinner, has passed away. I therefore decree, as self-appointed "Benevolent Dictator for List", that the Python CoC established by Steve Holden IS the official Code of Conduct, and must be respected

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

Hello, This is my first message to this list and I am sad the first message is not about python... But as you're talking about code of conduct, I would like to suggest something that has worked very well for me in other groups I participate. Personally, I don't like CoC much, because it's easy to

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the Yorkshire Inquisition

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016, at 01:20 PM, Andy Robinson wrote: > To enforce good conduct in a suitably Pythonic manner, I hereby > propose the foundation of the Yorkshire Inquisition, headed by Steve. I don't think anybody expected that! > Such an institution will have truly terrifying powers of enforce

Re: [python-uk] python-uk Digest, Vol 160, Issue 18

hat's > enough... > > I'm out of here. > > > > ~ Rich > > > > [0] I know, I said I wouldn't contribute further, but this entire > response > > requires something > > [1] I honestly can't believe you think *that* has any bearing on my >

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the Yorkshire Inquisition

On 7 December 2016 at 13:36, Thomas Kluyver wrote: > Give the inquisition the power to restrict someone's use of language > features. For instance, in a relatively mild incident, the heretic may > be banned from using for loops for a month, and have to emulate them > using while instead. Hmm. Me

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the Yorkshire Inquisition

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Thomas Kluyver wrote: > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016, at 01:20 PM, Andy Robinson wrote: > > To enforce good conduct in a suitably Pythonic manner, I hereby > > propose the foundation of the Yorkshire Inquisition, headed by Steve. > > I don't think anybody expected that! >

Re: [python-uk] Code of Conduct

Unfortunately I'll have to agree with this too, I was surprised to see that thread happening here. One thing that is missing on the CoC for Python is actually what happens when situations like this arise. It just says that we will be respectful, well, that didn't happen, how can we prevent it fro

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the Yorkshire Inquisition

Perhaps offenders could have their words replaced by the server with suitably contrite Monty Python quotes. I believe the Knights who say ni have a particularly apt vocabulary. On Wed, 7 Dec 2016 at 13:47, Andy Robinson wrote: On 7 December 2016 at 13:36, Thomas Kluyver wrote: > Give the inquis

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the Yorkshire Inquisition

On 7 December 2016 at 13:52, Steve Holden wrote: > Me least of all. Had I been consulted I would have said that I am not a > suitable person to be enforcing CoCs and (in case you didn't get the message > earlier) I agree with Andy that the Python CoC will suffice. It was an attempt at a joke. "Y

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the Yorkshire Inquisition

Hmmm. Seems eminently feasible. https://pythonhosted.org/mailman/src/mailman/docs/8-miles-high.html#basic-messaging-handling-workflow - Andy ___ python-uk mailing list python-uk@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the Yorkshire Inquisition

But perhaps an apt threat to anyone who gets out of hand. I'm sure we can find room for a Comfy Chair somewhere when someone needs a Good Talking To. S Steve Holden On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 1:59 PM, Andy Robinson wrote: > On 7 December 2016 at 13:52, Steve Holden wrote: > > Me least of all. Had

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the Yorkshire Inquisition

It would actually be quite a good Mailman feature to be able to put a user "on watch" for N days, and prepend a first line to their messages henceforth saying "The Inquisition is watching this user. They need to mind their manners". The 10 minute sin-bin works better in sports than red cards.

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the Yorkshire Inquisition

Idle thought: can the code of conduct be violated by accurately quoting Time Person-of-the-Year Donald Trump? On Wed, 7 Dec 2016, 13:21 Andy Robinson, wrote: > I believe I am one of the original founding list admins, after 20-odd > years. Sadly, the other, John Pinner, has passed away. > > I th

[python-uk] London Python Project Nights (Build Something)

Hey all! It's that time again, next Wednesday (14th) will be our December meet up. This month we're being hosted by the people at thesquareapp.com who have kindly offered to provide food and drinks. RSVP at: https://www.meetup.com/London-Python-Project-Nights/events/236073711/ Thanks, Al __

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the Yorkshire Inquisition

> On 7 Dec 2016, at 14:15, Daniel Pope wrote: > > Idle thought: can the code of conduct be violated by accurately quoting Time > Person-of-the-Year Donald Trump? I’d say that depending on the context of the quote and the specific content, certainly. For example, if you were using Time Perso

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the Yorkshire Inquisition

It could certainly be violated by embodying his behaviour ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ h On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:15 PM, Daniel Pope wrote: > Idle thought: can the code of conduct be violated by accurately quoting > Time Person-of-the-Year Donald Trump? > > > On Wed, 7 Dec 2016, 13:21 Andy Robinson, wrote: > >>

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the Yorkshire Inquisition

On Wed, Dec 07, 2016 at 02:15:27PM +, Daniel Pope wrote: >Idle thought: can the code of conduct be violated by accurately quoting >Time Person-of-the-Year Donald Trump?  I don't see why not; "Time Person of the Year" doesn't mean that the recipient is a "good person", it just means the

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the Yorkshire Inquisition

I think we submitted Guido for consideration, but did so using a byte string rather than Unicode, so the submission got rejected ;) On Wed, 7 Dec 2016 at 15:05, Jon Ribbens wrote: > On Wed, Dec 07, 2016 at 02:15:27PM +, Daniel Pope wrote: > >Idle thought: can the code of conduct be violat

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the Yorkshire Inquisition

Right, so we're in the ridiculous situation where there are stricter standards in what can be posted to this ML than who can be US president. On Wed, 7 Dec 2016, 14:30 Hansel Dunlop, wrote: > It could certainly be violated by embodying his behaviour ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > > h > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:

Re: [python-uk] What trends should we watch Python during 2017..?

Afternoon... Async related stuff was something I thought about mentioning to the person who asked me (but it was made clear these were non-technical things they wanted to watch) so dropped it. Now that micro:bit is both slowing down and speeding up in different ways I'm trying to find time to wor

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the Yorkshire Inquisition

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016, at 03:31 PM, Daniel Pope wrote: > Right, so we're in the ridiculous situation where there are stricter > standards in what can be posted to this ML than who can be US > president. This year has certainly generated a whole lot of ridiculous situations. ___

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the Yorkshire Inquisition

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Cory Benfield (Lukasa) wrote: > and as we know, only Sith deal in absolutes Are you absolutely sure about that? Steve Holden ___ python-uk mailing list python-uk@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pyth

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the Yorkshire Inquisition

> On 7 Dec 2016, at 16:09, Steve Holden wrote: > > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Cory Benfield (Lukasa) > wrote: > and as we know, only Sith deal in absolutes > > Are you absolutely sure about that? Don’t ask me, ask Obi Wan: https://youtu.be/kVu_yMEhUfM___

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the Yorkshire Inquisition

> > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Cory Benfield (Lukasa) > mailto:lukas...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > and as we know, only Sith deal in absolutes > > > Are you absolutely sure about that? I am. Yours, Darth SW ___ python-uk mailing list python-uk@

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the Yorkshire Inquisition

On Wed, 2016-12-07 at 14:05 +, Steve Holden wrote: > But perhaps an apt threat to anyone who gets out of hand. I'm sure we > can > find room for a Comfy Chair somewhere when someone needs a Good > Talking To. >  S s/Chair/Cushion/ -- Russel. ==

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the Yorkshire Inquisition

On 7 December 2016 at 16:14, S Walker wrote: > Darth SW Hey, Darth, fancy being our Brexit negotiator? Or military liaison to the US of A? ___ python-uk mailing list python-uk@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the Yorkshire Inquisition

Sorry, this year has been all too evil for me. 2016: Disowned by Sith. S On 07/12/16 17:03, Andy Robinson wrote: > On 7 December 2016 at 16:14, S Walker wrote: >> Darth SW > > Hey, Darth, fancy being our Brexit negotiator? Or military liaison to > the US of A? > __

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

Having been on this list since 2004 I *think* I'm right in saying that there have never been sharp words on any subject EXCEPT recruiters. So though I've defended recruiters here before, and posted job ads myself, I think we should consider the possibility that all that's needed is to not allo

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the Yorkshire Inquisition

On 07/12/2016 13:20, Andy Robinson wrote: I believe I am one of the original founding list admins, after 20-odd years. Sadly, the other, John Pinner, has passed away. I therefore decree, as self-appointed "Benevolent Dictator for List", that the Python CoC established by Steve Holden IS the off