Mark Lawrence :
>>> A return statement inside a finally block is code smell.
>> Not to my nose. It seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
> I agree, the code smell is the return in the except block.
Here's a regular pattern that I use for nonblocking I/O:
def poll(self):
try
Thanks for the extensive feedback. Here's my thoughts on how to address these
issues.
On Saturday, 7 June 2014 20:20:48 UTC+1, Ian wrote:
>
> It's a nice feature in a statically typed language, but I'm not sure
> how well it would work in a language as dynamic as Python. There are
> some ques
On Sunday, 8 June 2014 02:27:42 UTC+1, Gregory Ewing wrote:
>
> Also it doesn't sit well with Python's "one obvious
> way to do it" guideline, because it means there are
> *two* equally obvious ways to call a function.
This provides a way to do something new (add class-optimized implementations
On Sunday, 8 June 2014 02:27:42 UTC+1, Gregory Ewing wrote:
>
> Also it doesn't sit well with Python's "one obvious
> way to do it" guideline, because it means there are
> *two* equally obvious ways to call a function.
Actually, one of the best arguments against introducing UFCS is that Python
Hello,
On Sun, 8 Jun 2014 01:15:43 -0700 (PDT)
jongiddy wrote:
> Thanks for the extensive feedback. Here's my thoughts on how to
> address these issues.
>
> On Saturday, 7 June 2014 20:20:48 UTC+1, Ian wrote:
> >
> > It's a nice feature in a statically typed language, but I'm not sure
> > ho
Hello,
On Sun, 8 Jun 2014 01:26:04 -0700 (PDT)
jongiddy wrote:
> On Sunday, 8 June 2014 02:27:42 UTC+1, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> >
> > Also it doesn't sit well with Python's "one obvious
> > way to do it" guideline, because it means there are
> > *two* equally obvious ways to call a function.
>
On 2014-06-07 17:18, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
Roy Smith :
The original MacOS was written in Pascal (both applications and
kernel). Being able to touch memory locations or registers requires no
more than a few short glue routines written in assembler.
Pascal is essentially equivalent to C, except
In article <5393dd6a$0$29988$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com>,
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Jun 2014 20:09:37 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:
>
> > We've also got machines that are so fast, it's not longer critical that
> > we squeeze out every last iota of performance. Oh, but wait, now we'
In article <1dd863ba-09e5-439b-8669-db65f3e99...@googlegroups.com>,
jongiddy wrote:
> On Sunday, 8 June 2014 02:27:42 UTC+1, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> >
> > Also it doesn't sit well with Python's "one obvious
> > way to do it" guideline, because it means there are
> > *two* equally obvious ways t
On Sunday, 8 June 2014 15:59:14 UTC+1, Roy Smith wrote:
> Why? I assume a language which promoted the global namespace to be in
> the attribute search path (which, as far as I can tell, is what we're
> talking about here) would implement hasattr and raising AttributeError
> in a consistent w
On Sunday 08 June 2014 10:51:24 Roy Smith did opine
And Gene did reply:
> In article <5393dd6a$0$29988$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com>,
>
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > On Sat, 07 Jun 2014 20:09:37 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:
> > > We've also got machines that are so fast, it's not longer critical
Paul Sokolovsky :
> Python already has that - like, len(x) calls x.__len__() if it's
> defined
In fact, what's the point of having the duality?
len(x) <==> x.__len__()
x < y <==> x.__lt__(y)
str(x) <==> x.__str__()
etc.
I suppose the principal reason is that people don't like UFCS.
In article ,
Gene Heskett wrote:
> You may want to reconsider that statement after the first fan failure in
> your mini. We've had quite a few Mac's in the tv station, as video
> servers, graphics composers, etc. The airflow for cooling in them is
> controlled by baffles to get the maximum
On Sunday, 8 June 2014 13:06:08 UTC+1, Paul Sokolovsky wrote:
>
> Getting x.foo() to call foo(x) is what's bigger problem, which has
> serious performance and scoping confusion implications, as discussed in
> other mails.
The performance hit will only occur when the attribute access is about to
On Sunday, 8 June 2014 17:24:56 UTC+1, jongiddy wrote:
> # would work with UFCS
> f.readlines().map(int).min(key=lambda n: n %
> 10).str().b64encode(b'?-').print()
Ooops - map is the wrong way round to support UFCS in this case. However, with
UFCS, I could fix this by changing it to smap, and
Hi ...
Here I'm seeking for my team of developers/programmers in Python ... I'd
like to ask you to provide me contacts of people interested ...
I'm sending you one script attachment(...) ...
I'll manage them naturally knowing that the detail is wide ...
programming languages, Databases,
On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 9:56 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Paul Sokolovsky :
>
>> Python already has that - like, len(x) calls x.__len__() if it's
>> defined
>
> In fact, what's the point of having the duality?
>
>len(x) <==> x.__len__()
>
>x < y <==> x.__lt__(y)
>
>str(x) <==> x.__str__(
Hello,
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 18:56:47 +0300
Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Paul Sokolovsky :
>
> > Python already has that - like, len(x) calls x.__len__() if it's
> > defined
>
> In fact, what's the point of having the duality?
>
>len(x) <==> x.__len__()
>
>x < y <==> x.__lt__(y)
>
>str
On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 1:39 AM, jongiddy wrote:
> e.g. I could define:
>
> def squared(x):
> return x * x
>
> i = 3
> i.squared() => 9
>
> j = AClassThatImplements__mul__()
> j.squared() => whatever j * j returns
>
> but also:
> class AnotherClass:
> def __mul__(self, other):
> ...
On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 10:24 AM, jongiddy wrote:
> A contrived example - which of these is easier to understand?
>
> from base64 import b64encode
>
> # works now
> print(b64encode(str(min(map(int, f.readlines()), key=lambda n: n % 10)),
> b'?-'))
>
> # would work with UFCS
> f.readlines().map(int
On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 2:15 AM, jongiddy wrote:
> One problem with your untested code, the superclasses would need to be
> checked before using UFCS, so the structure is:
>
> try:
> return super().__getattr__(attr)
> except AttributeError:
> # resolve using UFCS
And then if UFCS finds no
On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> Except that it's even more complicated than that, because hasattr
> wasn't defined in your module, so it has a different set of globals.
> In fact, this would mean that hasattr would become quite useless.
hasattr is a builtin, so it has no
On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 2:24 AM, jongiddy wrote:
> A contrived example - which of these is easier to understand?
>
> from base64 import b64encode
>
> # works now
> print(b64encode(str(min(map(int, f.readlines()), key=lambda n: n % 10)),
> b'?-'))
>
> # would work with UFCS
> f.readlines().map(int)
On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 3:08 AM, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> Except that it's even more complicated than that, because hasattr
>> wasn't defined in your module, so it has a different set of globals.
>> In fact, this would mean that hasattr would bec
On Sunday 08 June 2014 12:09:41 Roy Smith did opine
And Gene did reply:
> In article ,
>
> Gene Heskett wrote:
> > You may want to reconsider that statement after the first fan failure
> > in your mini. We've had quite a few Mac's in the tv station, as
> > video servers, graphics composers, etc
On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 3:14 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> I have lost several nvidia video cards over the years from fan
> failures.
>From a discussion on one of Threshold RPG's out-of-character channels:
Kurdt: I wouldn't disturb the fan controller.
Kurdt: Ever seen an AMD without a fan? ;)
Leshrak
On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 3:08 AM, Ian Kelly wrote:
>> On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> Except that it's even more complicated than that, because hasattr
>>> wasn't defined in your module, so it has a different set o
On 8 June 2014 08:12, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>
> Does anyone have an example motivating a return from finally? It seems
> to me it would always be a bad idea as it silently clears all unexpected
> exceptions.
In a general sense:
try:
something_that_can_break()
return foo() # b
On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Josh English wrote:
> I have been using os.startfile(filepath) to launch files I've created in
> Python, mostly Excel spreadsheets, text files, or PDFs.
>
> When I run my script from my IDE, the file opens as I expect. But if I go
> back to my script and re-run it
On 6 June 2014 18:39, Roy Smith wrote:
>
> The only way I can think of to bypass a finally block would be to call
> os._exit(), or send yourself a kill signal.
If you're willing to use implementation details...
---
# BreakN.py
import sys
# Turn tracing on if it is off
if sys.gettrace() is Non
On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 12:02 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 11:57 AM, Joshua Landau wrote:
>> On 8 June 2014 08:12, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>>
>>> Does anyone have an example motivating a return from finally? It seems
>>> to me it would always be a bad idea as it silently clears al
On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 11:57 AM, Joshua Landau wrote:
> On 8 June 2014 08:12, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone have an example motivating a return from finally? It seems
>> to me it would always be a bad idea as it silently clears all unexpected
>> exceptions.
>
> In a general sense:
>
>
Chris Angelico wrote:
> Kurdt: I wouldn't disturb the fan controller.
> Kurdt: Ever seen an AMD without a fan? ;)
> Leshrak: heh, yeah
> Leshrak: actually. it's not a pretty smell
> Kurdt: Especially when it's overclocked. It goes FT in under two seconds.
>
> I think that's about right.
On
On 6/6/14, Ben Finney wrote:
> Dan Stromberg writes:
>
>> Is there a way of decorating method1 of class C using method2 of class
>> C?
>
> Can you give a concrete example (i.e. not merely hypothetical) where
> this would be a useful feature (i.e. an actual improvement over the
> absence of the fe
On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 4:09 AM, Sturla Molden wrote:
> Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> Kurdt: I wouldn't disturb the fan controller.
>> Kurdt: Ever seen an AMD without a fan? ;)
>> Leshrak: heh, yeah
>> Leshrak: actually. it's not a pretty smell
>> Kurdt: Especially when it's overclocked. It goes FZZ
On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 4:04 AM, Dan Stromberg wrote:
> I have a class that's operating on a socket.
>
> I'd like to have simple operations on that socket like "list
> configured hosts", "allow connection to host", etc. And I'd like them
> to be decorated with "reconnected_to_server_if_needed".
>
On 06/08/2014 06:14 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
On Sunday 08 June 2014 12:09:41 Roy Smith did opine
And Gene did reply:
In article ,
Gene Heskett wrote:
You may want to reconsider that statement after the first fan failure
in your mini. We've had quite a few Mac's in the tv station, as
video
On Sunday, 8 June 2014 18:24:28 UTC+1, Ian wrote:
>
> But that would all be done in getattr, so I don't think it affects
> hasattr's implementation at all. Since hasattr doesn't push anything
> onto the stack, getattr doesn't have to care whether it was called
> directly from Python or indirectl
Dan Stromberg writes:
> I'd like to have simple operations on that socket like "list
> configured hosts", "allow connection to host", etc. And I'd like them
> to be decorated with "reconnected_to_server_if_needed".
The ‘reconnected_to_server_if_needed’ method, if I understand
your original post
Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> Kurdt: I wouldn't disturb the fan controller.
>>> Kurdt: Ever seen an AMD without a fan? ;)
>>> Leshrak: heh, yeah
>>> Leshrak: actually. it's not a pretty smell
>>> Kurdt: Especially when it's overclocked. It goes FT in under two
>>> seconds.
>>>
>>> I think that
On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 04:16:24 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 4:09 AM, Sturla Molden
> wrote:
>> Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>>> Kurdt: I wouldn't disturb the fan controller. Kurdt: Ever seen an AMD
>>> without a fan? ;) Leshrak: heh, yeah
>>> Leshrak: actually. it's not a pre
On Monday, June 9, 2014 7:14:24 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 04:16:24 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > wrote:
> >> Chris Angelico wrote:
> >>> Kurdt: I wouldn't disturb the fan controller. Kurdt: Ever seen an AMD
> >>> without a fan? ;) Leshrak: heh, yeah
> >>> Leshrak
On Monday, June 9, 2014 5:04:05 AM UTC+5:30, Sturla Molden wrote:
> Chris Angelico wrote:
> >>> Kurdt: I wouldn't disturb the fan controller.
> >>> Kurdt: Ever seen an AMD without a fan? ;)
> >>> Leshrak: heh, yeah
> >>> Leshrak: actually. it's not a pretty smell
> >>> Kurdt: Especially when it's
On Monday, June 9, 2014 7:14:24 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 04:16:24 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > wrote:
> The fact that CPUs need anything more than a passive heat sink is
> *exactly* the problem. A car engine has to move anything up to a tonne of
> steel around
On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 03:10:03 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
[...]
> Actually, this is something that I've run into sometimes. I can't think
> of any Python examples, partly because Python tends to avoid unnecessary
> method chaining, but the notion of "data flow" is a very clean one -
> look at shell
On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 03:10:03 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> [...]
>> Stdio.write_file("foo.png",Image.PNG.encode(Image.JPEG.decode(
>> Stdio.read_file("foo.jpg")).autocrop().rotate(0.5).grey()));
>>
>> With UFCS, that could become perfect da
In article <53952807$0$29988$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com>,
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> (Note that Forth is brilliant here, as it exposes the argument stack and
> gives you a rich set of stack manipulation commands.)
As does PostScript (which, despite its reputation as a printer format,
is
On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 02:48:13 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> class Circle:
> def squared(self):
> raise NotImplementedError("Proven impossible in 1882")
>
> The trouble is that logically Circle does have a 'squared' attribute,
> while 3 doesn't; and yet Python guarantees this:
>
> foo
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 19:24:52 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Monday, June 9, 2014 7:14:24 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> The fact that CPUs need anything more than a passive heat sink is
>> *exactly* the problem. A car engine has to move anything up to a tonne
>> of steel around at 100kph
On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> The fact that CPUs need anything more than a passive heat sink is
> *exactly* the problem. A car engine has to move anything up to a tonne of
> steel around at 100kph or more, and depending on the design, they can get
> away with air-coolin
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 18:56:47 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Paul Sokolovsky :
>
>> Python already has that - like, len(x) calls x.__len__() if it's
>> defined
>
> In fact, what's the point of having the duality?
>
>len(x) <==> x.__len__()
>
>x < y <==> x.__lt__(y)
>
>str(x) <==> x.
On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 1:53 PM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
>> which means that hasattr (which is defined by
>> attempting to get the attribute and seeing if an exception is thrown)
>> has to return True.
>
> Yes. And this is a problem why?
>
> Obviously it would mean that the semantics of hasattr will
Steven D'Aprano :
> On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 18:56:47 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> In fact, what's the point of having the duality?
>>x < y <==> x.__lt__(y)
>
> [...]
>
> Consider x + y. What happens?
>
> #1 First, Python checks whether y is an instance of a *subclass* of x. If
> so, y gets pri
On Monday, June 9, 2014 9:50:38 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 19:24:52 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
>
>
> > On Monday, June 9, 2014 7:14:24 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> >> CPU technology is the triumph of brute force over finesse.
> >
> > If you are arguing that
On Monday, 9 June 2014 04:44:22 UTC+1, Chris Angelico wrote:
> This could be solved, though, by having a completely different symbol
> that means "the thing on my left is actually the first positional
> parameter in the function call on my right", such as in your example:
>
> > plus(1, 2) | divid
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