Re: pep 8 constants

You can get giant piano keyboards that you step on, so how about a giant computer keyboard? "I wrote 5 miles of code before lunch!" :-) You can get/make MIDI organ pedal-boards (a friend of mine has two). From there it's just one small step... Is that a two-step? a box-step? Count it off...

Re: pep 8 constants

On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:52:31 +0100, MRAB wrote: Eric S. Johansson wrote: Horace Blegg wrote: I've been kinda following this. I have a cousin who is permanently wheel chair bound and doesn't have perfect control of her hands, but still manages to use a computer and interact with society. H

Re: pep 8 constants

Eric S. Johansson wrote: Horace Blegg wrote: I've been kinda following this. I have a cousin who is permanently wheel chair bound and doesn't have perfect control of her hands, but still manages to use a computer and interact with society. However, the idea/thought of disabled programmers was ne

Re: pep 8 constants

Eric S. Johansson wrote: Horace Blegg wrote: I've been kinda following this. I have a cousin who is permanently wheel chair bound and doesn't have perfect control of her hands, but still manages to use a computer and interact with society. However, the idea/thought of disabled programmers was ne

Re: pep 8 constants

Horace Blegg wrote: > I've been kinda following this. I have a cousin who is permanently wheel > chair bound and doesn't have perfect control of her hands, but still > manages to use a computer and interact with society. However, the > idea/thought of disabled programmers was new to me/hadn't ever

Re: pep 8 constants

I've been kinda following this. I have a cousin who is permanently wheel chair bound and doesn't have perfect control of her hands, but still manages to use a computer and interact with society. However, the idea/thought of disabled programmers was new to me/hadn't ever occurred to me. You say tha

Re: pep 8 constants

Eric S. Johansson wrote: > I've been working with speech recognition for 15 years. I've written something > on the order of 10,000 lines of Python code both as open source and private > projects. I've tried it least two dozen editors and they all fail miserably > because they're focused on keyboar

Re: pep 8 constants

Eric S. Johansson wrote: > Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> That assumes that every word is all caps. In practice, for real-life >> Python code, I've tripled the vocal load of perhaps one percent of your >> utterances, which cuts your productivity by 2%. >> >> If you have 1 words in you per day, and

Re: pep 8 constants

Steven D'Aprano wrote: > That assumes that every word is all caps. In practice, for real-life > Python code, I've tripled the vocal load of perhaps one percent of your > utterances, which cuts your productivity by 2%. > > If you have 1 words in you per day, and one percent get wrapped with

Re: pep 8 constants

Rhodri James wrote: > > Gah. Ignore me. I hit 'send' instead of 'cancel', after my musings > concluded that yes, an editor could be smart enough, but it would have to > embed a hell of a lot of semantic knowledge of Python and it still wouldn't > eliminate the need to speak the keyboard at time

Re: pep 8 constants

Tim Chase wrote: >> I've tried it least two dozen editors and they all fail miserably >> because they're focused on keyboard use (but understandable) > [...snip...] >> I've tried a whole bunch, like I said at least a dozen. They >> all fail for first reasons such as inability to access all >> funct

Re: pep 8 constants

Eric S. Johansson wrote: I've been working with speech recognition for 15 years. I've written something on the order of 10,000 lines of Python code both as open source and private projects. I've tried it least two dozen editors and they all fail miserably because they're focused on keyboard use

Re: pep 8 constants

I've tried it least two dozen editors and they all fail miserably because they're focused on keyboard use (but understandable) [...snip...] I've tried a whole bunch, like I said at least a dozen. They all fail for first reasons such as inability to access all functionality through keystrokes (e

Re: pep 8 constants

Tim Chase wrote: > Eric S. Johansson wrote: > np. I get this confusion often. > > While I have used SR in some testing, I've found that while it's > passable for prose (and even that, proclamations of "95% accuracy" sound > good until you realize how many words comprise 5% of your daily typing >

Re: pep 8 constants

Rhodri James wrote: > [Trimming for length, sorry if that impacts too much on intelligibility] no problem, one of the hazards of speech recognition uses you become very verbose. > This goes a long way, but it doesn't eliminate the need for some forms > of escape coming up on a moderately frequen

Re: pep 8 constants

Eric S. Johansson wrote: Ethan Furman wrote: Eric S. Johansson wrote: yup how long will i[t] be before you become disablesd? maybe not as badly as I am but you should start feeling some hand problems in your later 40's to early 50's and it goes down hill from there. self preservation

Re: pep 8 constants

[Trimming for length, sorry if that impacts too much on intelligibility] On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 02:52:37 +0100, Eric S. Johansson wrote: let's use an example. Admittedly, this is a very simple example but hopefully it illustrates my point What I dictate is: from pots is class telephone Wh

Re: pep 8 constants

Eric S. Johansson wrote: Tim Chase wrote: It sounds like the issue should be one of making your screen-reader smarter, not dumbing down Python conventions. I don't know what SR you're using (Jaws? Window Eyes? yasr? screeder? speakup? Naturally speaking is speech recognition (speech in t

Re: pep 8 constants

On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:57:27 +0100, Rhodri James wrote: On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 03:37:15 +0100, Eric S. Johansson wrote: Steven D'Aprano wrote: Why do you think a smart editing environment is in opposition to coding conventions? Surely an editor smart enough to know a variable name spoke

Re: pep 8 constants

On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 03:37:15 +0100, Eric S. Johansson wrote: Steven D'Aprano wrote: Why do you think a smart editing environment is in opposition to coding conventions? Surely an editor smart enough to know a variable name spoken as "pear tree" is an instance and therefore spelled as pea

Re: pep 8 constants

On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:37:15 -0400, Eric S. Johansson wrote: > Steven D'Aprano wrote: ... >> Sounds to me that your speech environment needs a command to turn >> capslock on and off, and your problem with PEP 8 is solved: > > you haven't used recognition, have you? No. >> x equals caps on red

Re: pep 8 constants

Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Why do you think a smart editing environment is in opposition to coding > conventions? Surely an editor smart enough to know a variable name spoken > as "pear tree" is an instance and therefore spelled as pear_tree (to use > your own example) would be smart enough to kn

Re: pep 8 constants

Rhodri James wrote: > > Could you elucidate a bit? I'm not seeing how you're intending to keep > PEP-8 conventions in this, and I'm not entirely convinced that without > them the smart editor approach doesn't in fact reduce your productivity. > thank you for asking for an elaboration. Program

Re: pep 8 constants

On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:49:04 -0400, Eric S. Johansson wrote: > alex23 wrote: >> "Eric S. Johansson" wrote: >>> no, I know the value if convention when editors can't tell you >>> anything about the name in question. I would like to see more support >>> for disabled programmers like myself and the

Re: pep 8 constants

On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:28:07 +0100, Eric S. Johansson wrote: Rhodri James wrote: As far as I can tell, the only thing that you are even vaguely suggesting for convention use is underscores_with_everything. As promised, I laugh hollowly. I'm sorry. It may have been too subtle. I'm sugges

Re: pep 8 constants

Rhodri James wrote: > On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 06:07:19 +0100, Eric S. Johansson > wrote: > >> Rhodri James wrote: >> >>> Reject away, but I'm afraid you've still got some work to do to >>> convince me that PEP 8 is more work for an SR system than any other >>> convention. >> > > [snip sundry example

Re: pep 8 constants

Ethan Furman wrote: > Eric S. Johansson wrote: >> >> yup how long will i[t] be before you become disablesd? maybe not as >> badly as I am >> but you should start feeling some hand problems in your later 40's to >> early 50's >> and it goes down hill from there. self preservation/interest comes t

Re: pep 8 constants

Eric S. Johansson wrote: yup how long will i[t] be before you become disablesd? maybe not as badly as I am but you should start feeling some hand problems in your later 40's to early 50's and it goes down hill from there. self preservation/interest comes to mind as a possible motive for acti

Re: pep 8 constants

Tim Chase wrote: It sounds like the issue should be one of making your screen-reader > smarter, not dumbing down Python conventions. I don't know what SR > you're using (Jaws? Window Eyes? yasr? screeder? speakup? Naturally speaking is speech recognition (speech in text out) it is not text

Re: pep 8 constants

alex23 wrote: > "Eric S. Johansson" wrote: >> no, I know the value if convention when editors can't tell you anything about >> the name in question. I would like to see more support for disabled >> programmers >> like myself and the thousands of programmers injured every year and forced to >> le

Re: pep 8 constants

Peter Otten wrote: > Eric S. Johansson wrote: > >> MultiWordName mulitwordname >> very high error rate. many retries or hand hurting typing. > > Can you define macros in your speech recognition software? > > multiwordname > > might slightly lower the error rate. > Yes it would. I think it w

Re: pep 8 constants

Reject away, but I'm afraid you've still got some work to do to convince me that PEP 8 is more work for an SR system than any other convention. Name name higher than normal recognition error rate. can require multiple tries or hand correction MultiWordName mulitwordname ver

Re: pep 8 constants

On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 06:07:19 +0100, Eric S. Johansson wrote: Rhodri James wrote: Reject away, but I'm afraid you've still got some work to do to convince me that PEP 8 is more work for an SR system than any other convention. [snip sundry examples] Yes, yes, recognition systems need bot

Re: pep 8 constants

Eric S. Johansson wrote: > MultiWordName mulitwordname > very high error rate. many retries or hand hurting typing. Can you define macros in your speech recognition software? multiwordname might slightly lower the error rate. Peter -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: pep 8 constants

"Eric S. Johansson" wrote: > no, I know the value if convention when editors can't tell you anything about > the name in question.  I would like to see more support for disabled > programmers > like myself and the thousands of programmers injured every year and forced to > leave the field.  serio

Re: pep 8 constants

Rhodri James wrote: > Reject away, but I'm afraid you've still got some work to do to > convince me that PEP 8 is more work for an SR system than any other > convention. Name name higher than normal recognition error rate. can require multiple tries or hand correction MultiWordName

Re: pep 8 constants

On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 10:09:21 -0400, Eric S. Johansson wrote: > Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: >> Brendan Miller a écrit : >>> PEP 8 doesn't mention anything about using all caps to indicate a >>> constant. >>> >>> Is all caps meaning "don't reassign this var" a strong enough >>> convention to not be c

Re: pep 8 constants

On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:09:21 +0100, Eric S. Johansson wrote: Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: Brendan Miller a écrit : PEP 8 doesn't mention anything about using all caps to indicate a constant. Is all caps meaning "don't reassign this var" a strong enough convention to not be considered violati

Re: pep 8 constants

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > Brendan Miller a écrit : >> PEP 8 doesn't mention anything about using all caps to indicate a >> constant. >> >> Is all caps meaning "don't reassign this var" a strong enough >> convention to not be considered violating good python style? I see a >> lot of people using

Re: pep 8 constants

Steve Holden wrote: Gabriel Genellina wrote: En Tue, 24 Feb 2009 22:52:20 -0200, Ethan Furman escribió: Steve Holden wrote: Brian Allen Vanderburg II wrote: One idea to make constants possible would be to extend properties to be able to exist at the module level as well as the class le

Re: pep 8 constants

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 08:48:27 -, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: Ben Finney a écrit : (snip - about using ALL_CAPS for pseudo-constants) Perhaps I'd even argue for an update to PEP 8 that endorses this as conventional. +1 I've been a bit surprised last time I checked PEP8 to find out this

Re: pep 8 constants

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: Robin Becker a écrit : well this sort of awful hackery will allow you to put read only constants on an existing module (snip example code) so I guess if you write your own module class and then use a special importer you can create module like objects with read o

Re: pep 8 constants

Robin Becker a écrit : well this sort of awful hackery will allow you to put read only constants on an existing module (snip example code) so I guess if you write your own module class and then use a special importer you can create module like objects with read only attributes. Fine tec

Re: pep 8 constants

well this sort of awful hackery will allow you to put read only constants on an existing module >>> import reportlab >>> reportlab.__class__ >>> class MyModule(reportlab.__class__): ... @property ... def pi(self): ... return 3 ... >>> z=MyModule('reportlab') >>> z.__dict__.up

Re: pep 8 constants

Ethan Furman a écrit : Steve Holden wrote: Brian Allen Vanderburg II wrote: (snip) One idea to make constants possible would be to extend properties to be able to exist at the module level as well as the class level: @property def pi(): return 3.14159. print(pi) # prints 3.14159 p

Re: pep 8 constants

Brian Allen Vanderburg II a écrit : bock...@virgilio.it wrote: Constants would be a nice addition in python, sure enough. But I'm not sure that this can be done without a run-time check every time the constant is used, and python is already slow enough. Maybe a check that is disabled when runn

Re: pep 8 constants

Ben Finney a écrit : (snip - about using ALL_CAPS for pseudo-constants) Perhaps I'd even argue for an update to PEP 8 that endorses this as conventional. +1 I've been a bit surprised last time I checked PEP8 to find out this wasn't already the case - I would have sweared it was. -- http://ma

Re: pep 8 constants

Brendan Miller a écrit : PEP 8 doesn't mention anything about using all caps to indicate a constant. Is all caps meaning "don't reassign this var" a strong enough convention to not be considered violating good python style? I see a lot of people using it, but I also see a lot of people writing n

Re: pep 8 constants

Gabriel Genellina wrote: > En Tue, 24 Feb 2009 22:52:20 -0200, Ethan Furman > escribió: > >> Steve Holden wrote: >>> Brian Allen Vanderburg II wrote: >>> One idea to make constants possible would be to extend properties to be able to exist at the module level as well as the class level:

Re: pep 8 constants

En Tue, 24 Feb 2009 22:52:20 -0200, Ethan Furman escribió: Steve Holden wrote: Brian Allen Vanderburg II wrote: One idea to make constants possible would be to extend properties to be able to exist at the module level as well as the class level: @property def pi(): return 3.14159.

Re: pep 8 constants

Steve Holden wrote: Brian Allen Vanderburg II wrote: bock...@virgilio.it wrote: Constants would be a nice addition in python, sure enough. But I'm not sure that this can be done without a run-time check every time the constant is used, and python is already slow enough. Maybe a check that is

Re: pep 8 constants

Ethan Furman wrote: > Steve Holden wrote: >> Brian Allen Vanderburg II wrote: >> >>> bock...@virgilio.it wrote: >>> Constants would be a nice addition in python, sure enough. But I'm not sure that this can be done without a run-time check every time the constant is used, and pyt

Re: pep 8 constants

Benjamin Kaplan case.edu> writes: > > > On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 1:16 AM, Aahz pythoncraft.com> wrote:In article python.org>, > Brendan Miller catphive.net> wrote:>>PEP 8 doesn't mention anything about using all caps to indicate a constant.Now it does!  Seehttp://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0

Re: pep 8 constants

Brian Allen Vanderburg II wrote: > bock...@virgilio.it wrote: >> Constants would be a nice addition in python, sure enough. >> But I'm not sure that this can be done without a run-time check every >> time >> the constant is used, and python is already slow enough. Maybe a check >> that is disabled

Re: pep 8 constants

bock...@virgilio.it wrote: Constants would be a nice addition in python, sure enough. But I'm not sure that this can be done without a run-time check every time the constant is used, and python is already slow enough. Maybe a check that is disabled when running with optimizing flags ? But I'm su

Re: pep 8 constants

Benjamin Kaplan wrote: On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 1:16 AM, Aahz > wrote: In article mailto:mailman.7174.1231915778.3487.python-l...@python.org>>, Brendan Miller mailto:catph...@catphive.net>> wrote: > >PEP 8 doesn't mention anything about using all

Re: pep 8 constants

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 1:16 AM, Aahz wrote: > In article , > Brendan Miller wrote: > > > >PEP 8 doesn't mention anything about using all caps to indicate a > constant. > > Now it does! See > http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/ > > Thanks for bringing this up! Since the constants in the

Re: pep 8 constants

In article , Brendan Miller wrote: > >PEP 8 doesn't mention anything about using all caps to indicate a constant. Now it does! See http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/ Thanks for bringing this up! -- Aahz (a...@pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ Weinberg's

Re: pep 8 constants

In article , Brendan Miller wrote: > >PEP 8 doesn't mention anything about using all caps to indicate a constant. > >Is all caps meaning "don't reassign this var" a strong enough >convention to not be considered violating good python style? I see a >lot of people using it, but I also see a lot of

Re: pep 8 constants

On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 04:58:30 -, Ben Finney wrote: Unless someone's going to argue that “Variable Names” doesn't apply to constant names, even though Python doesn't make the distinction. Python doesn't make the distinction, which is precisely why making the distinction through CONVENTION

Re: pep 8 constants

Steven D'Aprano writes: > But regardless... yes, it is in my opinion Pythonic to use ALLCAPS > to designate constants (by convention). I agree, in general. Though I think I can count the number of times I've wanted to use an ‘UPPER_CASE’-named constant in my code, on the fingers of one foot. >

Re: pep 8 constants

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 19:11:16 -0800, Brendan Miller wrote: >> Constants would be a nice addition in python, sure enough. > > My original question was about PEP-8 and whether it is pythonic to use > all caps to denote a variable that shouldn't be changed. More of a style > question than a language

Re: pep 8 constants

> Constants would be a nice addition in python, sure enough. My original question was about PEP-8 and whether it is pythonic to use all caps to denote a variable that shouldn't be changed. More of a style question than a language question. I actually think *enforcing* constantness seems to go aga

Re: pep 8 constants

Francesco Bochicchio wrote: On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 08:13:30 +, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Absolutely. It's rather sad that I can do this: import math math.pi = 3.0 I like the ability to shoot myself in the foot, thank you very much, but I should at least get a warning when I'm about to do so:

Re: pep 8 constants

On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 08:13:30 +, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > Absolutely. It's rather sad that I can do this: > > import math > math.pi = 3.0 > > I like the ability to shoot myself in the foot, thank you very much, but > I should at least get a warning when I'm about to do so: > > math.PI =

Re: pep 8 constants

On Wed, 2009-01-14 at 16:58 +1000, James Mills wrote: [...] > Still I would avoid using this idiom altogether > and jsut stick with default values. For Example: > > FOO = 1 > > def f(x=FOO): >... > > > Use this instead: > > def f(x=1): >... That only works well when "1" is only used o

Re: pep 8 constants

On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 3:13 AM, Steven D'Aprano < ste...@remove.this.cybersource.com.au> wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 23:26:54 -0800, Brendan Miller wrote: > > > I tend to use constants as a means of avoiding the proliferation of > > magic literals for maintenance reasons... Like say if your exam

Re: pep 8 constants

On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 23:26:54 -0800, Brendan Miller wrote: > I tend to use constants as a means of avoiding the proliferation of > magic literals for maintenance reasons... Like say if your example of > FOO would have been used in 10 places. Maybe it is more pythonic to > simply denote such a thing

Re: pep 8 constants

> FOO = 1 > > def f(x=FOO): > ... > > > Use this instead: > > def f(x=1): > ... I tend to use constants as a means of avoiding the proliferation of magic literals for maintenance reasons... Like say if your example of FOO would have been used in 10 places. Maybe it is more pythonic to simply

Re: pep 8 constants

On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Brendan Miller wrote: > PEP 8 doesn't mention anything about using all caps to indicate a constant. > > Is all caps meaning "don't reassign this var" a strong enough > convention to not be considered violating good python style? I see a > lot of people using it, bu

pep 8 constants

PEP 8 doesn't mention anything about using all caps to indicate a constant. Is all caps meaning "don't reassign this var" a strong enough convention to not be considered violating good python style? I see a lot of people using it, but I also see a lot of people writing non-pythonic code... so I th