Re: first release of PyPy

Kay Schluehr wrote: > Anton Vredegoor wrote: > > >>I'm not involved in PyPy myself but this would seem a logical >>possibility. To go a step further, if the compiler somehow would know >>about the shortest machine code sequence which would produce the >>desired effect then there would be no reaso

Re: first release of PyPy

Kay Schluehr wrote: > Anton Vredegoor wrote: > > > I'm not involved in PyPy myself but this would seem a logical > > possibility. To go a step further, if the compiler somehow would know > > about the shortest machine code sequence which would produce the > > desired effect then there would be no r

Re: first release of PyPy

Anton Vredegoor wrote: > I'm not involved in PyPy myself but this would seem a logical > possibility. To go a step further, if the compiler somehow would know > about the shortest machine code sequence which would produce the > desired effect then there would be no reason to limit onself to only >

Re: first release of PyPy

Carl Friedrich Bolz wrote: > Rumors have it that the secret goal is being faster-than-C which is > nonsense, isn't it? Maybe not. If one can call functions from a system dll (a la ctypes, some other poster already mentioned there was some investigation in this area) one can skip a layer of the hi

Re: first release of PyPy

Hi Kay, On Mon, May 23, 2005 at 13:39 -0700, Kay Schluehr wrote: > Does it mean You create an RPython object that runs on top of CPython, > but is just an RPython facade wrapped around a CPython object? So You > have four kinds of Pythons: > > RPy - translateable into LL code > APy - non-tra

Re: first release of PyPy

ionel wrote: > so what could this PyPy do in the future ? .. concretely ... > hope this is not a stupid question > Maybe the description from the homepage says it best: The PyPy project aims at producing a flexible and fast Python implementation. The guiding idea is to translate a Python-level

Re: first release of PyPy

so what could this PyPy do in the future ? .. concretely ... hope this is not a stupid question -- ionel. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: first release of PyPy

Kay Schluehr wrote: >>Speed isn't even the biggest problem when running PyPy on itself. >>PyPy still 'fakes' some objects, e.g. borrows them from the underlying >>Python. > > > Does it mean You create an RPython object that runs on top of CPython, > but is just an RPython facade wrapped around a

Re: first release of PyPy

Shane Hathaway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Mike Meyer wrote: > > Basically, there's a *lot* of history in programming languages. I'd > > hate to see someone think that we went straight from assembler to C, > > or that people didn't understand the value of dynamic languages very > > early. > > Y

Re: first release of PyPy

Carl Friedrich Bolz wrote: > Rocco Moretti wrote: > > Alex Stapleton wrote: > > > >>The question still remains, can it run it's self? ;) > >> > > This allready worked in the past, though it doesn't at the moment. > > > > > > > I think they try, every once in a while, to self host. The only problem

Re: first release of PyPy

Mike Meyer wrote: > Basically, there's a *lot* of history in programming languages. I'd > hate to see someone think that we went straight from assembler to C, > or that people didn't understand the value of dynamic languages very > early. Yes, although I wasn't following historical events; I was f

Re: first release of PyPy

Rocco Moretti wrote: > Alex Stapleton wrote: > >>The question still remains, can it run it's self? ;) >> This allready worked in the past, though it doesn't at the moment. > > > I think they try, every once in a while, to self host. The only problem > at this stage of the game is the ~2000x s

Re: first release of PyPy

Alex Stapleton wrote: > The question still remains, can it run it's self? ;) > I think they try, every once in a while, to self host. The only problem at this stage of the game is the ~2000x speed slowdown. Using that figure, a five second startup time for PyPy on CPython would take about 3 ho

Re: first release of PyPy

Ville Vainio wrote: >>"Christian" == Christian Tismer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > >> PyPy is written in python, if it can be compiled then the programs > >> can > >> be as well. > > Christian> Well, this is not really true. PyPy is written in > Christian> RPython,

Re: first release of PyPy

holger krekel wrote: > The PyPy 0.6 release > > > *The PyPy Development Team is happy to announce the first > public release of PyPy after two years of spare-time and > half a year of EU funded development. The 0.6 release > is eminently a preview release.* Yay! Congratulat

Re: first release of PyPy

The question still remains, can it run it's self? ;) On 20 May 2005, at 23:50, Kay Schluehr wrote: > > holger krekel wrote: > >> Welcome to PyPy 0.6 >> >> >> *The PyPy Development Team is happy to announce the first >> public release of PyPy after two years of spare-time and

Re: first release of PyPy

> "Christian" == Christian Tismer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> PyPy is written in python, if it can be compiled then the programs >> can >> be as well. Christian> Well, this is not really true. PyPy is written in Christian> RPython, a sub-language of Python that is impli

Re: first release of PyPy

On Sun, May 22, 2005 at 19:18 +0200, ionel wrote: > this is interesting > anyway i'm to lazy to read so i'll just ask: > can PyPy at the current state of develepment help me improve my python > programs? (speed) no, it can't at this stage. You might check out Psyco, the specializing compiler f

Re: first release of PyPy

this is interesting anyway i'm to lazy to read so i'll just ask: can PyPy at the current state of develepment help me improve my python programs? (speed)-- ionel. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: first release of PyPy

Jp Calderone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Have you profiler data in support of this? Suggesting >optimizations, especially ones which require semantic changes to >existing behavior, without actually knowing that they'll speed things >up, or even that they are targetted at bottleneck code, is ki

Re: first release of PyPy

On 21 May 2005 17:57:17 -0700, Paul Rubin <"http://phr.cx"@nospam.invalid> wrote: >Christian Tismer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Type inference works fine for our implementation of Python, >> but it is in fact very limited for full-blown Python programs. >> Yoou cannot do much more than to try t

Re: first release of PyPy

Christian Tismer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Type inference works fine for our implementation of Python, > but it is in fact very limited for full-blown Python programs. > Yoou cannot do much more than to try to generate effective code > for the current situation that you see. But that's most oft

Re: first release of PyPy

Ville Vainio wrote: >>"Torsten" == Torsten Bronger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Torsten> What's supposed to be compiled? Only PyPy itself or also > Torsten> the programs it's "interpreting"? > > PyPy is written in python, if it can be compiled then the programs can > be as wel

Re: first release of PyPy

Torsten Bronger wrote: ... > I've been told by so many books and on-line material that Python > cannot be compiled (unless you cheat). So how is this possible? Have a look at Psyco, that will be folded into and improved by PyPy. -- Christian Tismer :^)

Re: first release of PyPy

Shane Hathaway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Torsten Bronger wrote: > Even if things don't turn out that way, note that each generation of > programming languages builds on its predecessors, and PyPy could help > bootstrap the next generation. Assemblers first had to be written in > machine code;

Re: first release of PyPy

beliavsky> C++ is a higher level language than C, >From the compiler's viewpoint C++ is not much higher level than C. It has the same basic types, (structs, unions and C++ classes are really the same thing data-wise, though C++ classes can be somewhat more complex layout-wise) and supports

Re: first release of PyPy

"Torsten Bronger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Hallöchen! > > Paul Rubin writes: > >> Torsten Bronger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> >>> Please could somebody explain to us non-CS people why PyPy could >>> have speed features CPython can'

Re: first release of PyPy

Shane Hathaway wrote: > > Please could somebody explain to us non-CS people why PyPy could > > have speed features CPython can't have? > > The idea is to shift more of the responsibility to optimize code from > the human to the computer. Since C code is at a low level, the computer > can only i

Re: first release of PyPy

Hi! Ville Vainio wrote: >>"Torsten" == Torsten Bronger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Torsten> What's supposed to be compiled? Only PyPy itself or also > Torsten> the programs it's "interpreting"? > > PyPy is written in python, if it can be compiled then the programs can > be as

Re: first release of PyPy

Shane Hathaway wrote: > Now people are experimenting with high level compilers written in high level > languages. Where will this pattern lead? Who knows. :-) Drift from old Europe ( greek Pythons ) to old India to "Nagas" and other snake-beings and goddesses :-) http://www.khandro.net/myster

Re: first release of PyPy

Torsten Bronger wrote: > Hallöchen! > > Paul Rubin writes: > > > Torsten Bronger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > >> Please could somebody explain to us non-CS people why PyPy could > >> have speed features CPython can't have? > > > > Does the one-word answer "compiler"

Re: first release of PyPy

Torsten Bronger wrote: > Hallöchen! > > "Kay Schluehr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > >>[...] >> >>[...] Once You get enough speed out of the PyPy-runtime and the >>community shifts to it the PEP-process degenerates in the view of >>a PyPythonista to discussions about aspects of the std-objects

Re: first release of PyPy

> "Ville" == Ville Vainio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Ville> This is not about PyPy but it might help: Ville> http://www.python.org/pycon/dc2004/papers/1/paper.pdf (It's about starkiller, sorry about the opaque url) -- Ville Vainio http://tinyurl.com/2prnb -- http://mail.python.

Re: first release of PyPy

> "Torsten" == Torsten Bronger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Torsten> What's supposed to be compiled? Only PyPy itself or also Torsten> the programs it's "interpreting"? PyPy is written in python, if it can be compiled then the programs can be as well. Torsten> I've been told by s

Re: first release of PyPy

Hallöchen! Paul Rubin writes: > Torsten Bronger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> Please could somebody explain to us non-CS people why PyPy could >> have speed features CPython can't have? > > Does the one-word answer "compiler" explain enough? No, just more questions.

Re: first release of PyPy

Torsten Bronger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Please could somebody explain to us non-CS people why PyPy could > have speed features CPython can't have? Does the one-word answer "compiler" explain enough? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: first release of PyPy

Hallöchen! "Kay Schluehr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > [...] > > [...] Once You get enough speed out of the PyPy-runtime and the > community shifts to it the PEP-process degenerates in the view of > a PyPythonista to discussions about aspects of the std-objectspace > and language design patterns

Re: first release of PyPy

Christian Tismer wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Kay Schluehr wrote: > > > >>holger krekel wrote: > >> > >>>Welcome to PyPy 0.6 > >>> > >>> > >>>*The PyPy Development Team is happy to announce the first > >>>public release of PyPy after two years of spare-time and > >>>

Re: first release of PyPy

Christian Tismer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > PyPy is just a completely new approach to interpreted languages, > almost based upon known compiler technology, but applying this in a > consequent manner, that has no comparable prior example. Is there a web page describing what's new? Compile-and-g

Re: first release of PyPy

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Kay Schluehr wrote: > >>holger krekel wrote: >> >>>Welcome to PyPy 0.6 >>> >>> >>>*The PyPy Development Team is happy to announce the first >>>public release of PyPy after two years of spare-time and >>>half a year of EU funded development. The 0.6

Re: first release of PyPy

holger krekel wrote: > Welcome to PyPy 0.6 > > > *The PyPy Development Team is happy to announce the first > public release of PyPy after two years of spare-time and > half a year of EU funded development. The 0.6 release > is eminently a preview release.* Congratulation to