On Sep 4, 10:22 am, ron3200 wrote:
> I think this is one of those areas where computers and people differ,
> but it may also depend on the persons native language as to what works
> better for them.
Yes but what works better for "them" is not always a better way of
doing things! People do foolis
On Sep 3, 11:50 am, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> Freedom is not and never has been, IMHO, a virtue or goal or even desire
> in Python.
Exactly!
> Where it occurs, it is at best a happy coincidence,
Exactly!
> and even
> if that happy coincidence happens often, it is not a design feature, IMHO.
Ex
On 2011-08-16, Prasad, Ramit wrote:
>What exactly is the downside to indentation as flow control?
I think a lot of it is personal taste or differences in how peoples'
brains work.
I don't want "free form code", I don't want to write stuff that isn't
correctly indented. I want a visual cue I can
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Prasad, Ramit
wrote:
> I am not sure why people are so stuck on braces. I figured other people would
> be like me and tired of having to do things like figuring out where I missed
> an end brace.
>
I'm one of the fans of braces, but search the list archives and
>> PS: I will admit that a few of our community members can be rather
>> acerbic at times.
>Yeah. And the thing is... This can't possibly lead to convincing people of
>your position, so presumably the purpose is that you don't want anyone who
>didn't start out agreeing with you to ever come to ag
>1. Indentation as flow control was a bad idea.
>2. People are subconsciously aware of this.
>3. There is a HUGE degree of emotional investment in defending it.
>
>The responses I have seen on this issue are highly emotional, full of insults,
>full of blame-throwing, and utterly contrary to the
On Aug 16, 1:49 am, alex23 wrote:
> On Aug 16, 2:37 pm, rantingrick wrote:
>
> > The reading proceeds naturally from right to left.
>
> Well, "naturally" if you're coding in Hebrew or Japanese perhaps :)
Yes :). I typo-ed that one. It was getting late when i sent that
reply. I did consider posti
On Aug 16, 2:37 pm, rantingrick wrote:
> The reading proceeds naturally from right to left.
Well, "naturally" if you're coding in Hebrew or Japanese perhaps :)
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Aug 15, 11:13 pm, alex23 wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > I think I would be less skeptical about fluent interfaces if they were
> > written more like Unix shell script pipelines instead of using attribute
> > access notation:
>
> > foo.array_of_things | sort | map block | join ", "
>
> I'v
* 2011-08-14T01:44:05-07:00 * Chris Rebert wrote:
> I've heard that Dylan is supposedly Lisp, sans parens.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dylan_(programming_language)
It has copied/derived many features from Lisps but it's not a dialect of
Lisp because of the syntax and its consequences.
--
http
On 2011-08-16, Roy Smith wrote:
> In article <4e492d08$0$30003$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com>,
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> I'm reminded of this quote from John Baez:
>> "The real numbers are the dependable breadwinner of the family, the complete
>> ordered field we all rely on. The complex
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
I'm reminded of this quote from John Baez:
"...But the octonions are the
crazy old uncle nobody lets out of the attic: they are nonassociative."
(And don't even ask about the sedenions...)
Aren't they the ones that mutilate cattle and abduct people?
--
Greg
--
http://
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 1:34 AM, Roy Smith wrote:
> In article ,
> Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> Or: "Blasted PHP, which
>> operators have precedence between || and or?" which is easy to forget.
>>
>> And you're right about the details changing from language to language,
>> hence the operators tabl
In article ,
Chris Angelico wrote:
> Or: "Blasted PHP, which
> operators have precedence between || and or?" which is easy to forget.
>
> And you're right about the details changing from language to language,
> hence the operators table *for each language*. But most languages
> follow fairly sa
In article <4e492d08$0$30003$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com>,
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> I'm reminded of this quote from John Baez:
>
> "The real numbers are the dependable breadwinner of the family, the complete
> ordered field we all rely on. The complex numbers are a slightly flashier
> bu
On Aug 15, 2:31 am, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 8/15/2011 12:28 AM, Seebs wrote:
>
> To repeat again: you are free to put in explicit dedent markers that
> will let you re-indent code should all indents be removed.
As Terry has been trying to say for a while now, use the following
methods to quell y
On 2011-08-15, Roy Smith wrote:
> Demand, no, but sometimes it's a good idea. I've been writing computer
> programs for close to 40 years, and I still have no clue what most of
> the order of operations is. It's just not worth investing the brain
> cells to remember such trivia (especially si
On 2011-08-15, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Seebs wrote:
>> I tend to write stuff like
>>
>> foo.array_of_things.sort.map { block }.join(", ")
>>
>> I like this a lot more than
>> array = foo.array_of_things
>> sorted_array = array.sort()
>> mapped_array = [block(x) for x in sorted_array]
>> ", ".jo
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> And of course, once you start using floating point numbers, you can't assume
> commutativity:
>
0.1 + 0.7 + 0.3 == 0.3 + 0.7 + 0.1
> False
>
This isn't because programming languages fail to follow mathematics;
it's because floating po
Roy Smith wrote:
> Computer programming languages follow math conventions only in the most
> vague ways. For example, standard math usage dictates that addition is
> commutative. While this is true for adding integers, it's certainly not
> true for adding strings (in any language which supports
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Roy Smith wrote:
> Demand, no, but sometimes it's a good idea. I've been writing computer
> programs for close to 40 years, and I still have no clue what most of
> the order of operations is. It's just not worth investing the brain
> cells to remember such trivia
In article ,
Chris Angelico wrote:
> Python uses the + and - symbols to mean addition
> and subtraction for good reason. Let's not alienate the mathematical
> mind by violating this rule.
Computer programming languages follow math conventions only in the most
vague ways. For example, standard
Seebs wrote:
> I tend to write stuff like
>
> foo.array_of_things.sort.map { block }.join(", ")
>
> I like this a lot more than
> array = foo.array_of_things
> sorted_array = array.sort()
> mapped_array = [block(x) for x in sorted_array]
> ", ".join(mapped_array)
If you insist on a one-liner fo
Chris Angelico writes:
> Why is left-to-right inherently more logical than
> multiplication-before-addition? Why is it more logical than
> right-to-left? And why is changing people's expectations more logical
> than fulfilling them? Python uses the + and - symbols to mean addition
> and subtracti
On 08/14/2011 11:28 PM, Seebs wrote:
I tend to write stuff like
foo.array_of_things.sort.map { block }.join(", ")
I like this a lot more than
array = foo.array_of_things
sorted_array = array.sort()
mapped_array = [block(x) for x in sorted_array]
", ".join
On Aug 14, 2011 3:24 PM, "Seebs" wrote:
...
> > I'm not impressed by arguments based on "but if I do something stupid,
like
> > select text with my eyes closed and reindent it without looking, I
expect
> > the compiler to save my bacon". In my opinion, it's not the compiler's
job
> > to protect yo
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 5:28 AM, Seebs wrote:
> Character stream: tab tab tab "foo" newline tab "bar". This is, as you
> say, *usually* two dedents, but it could be one.
I see your point, though I cannot imagine anyone who would use "tab
tab" as an indent level. But if you go from 16 spaces dow
On 8/15/2011 12:28 AM, Seebs wrote:
To repeat again: you are free to put in explicit dedent markers that
will let you re-indent code should all indents be removed.
--
Terry Jan Reedy
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>The only exception I can think of is *very* early Fortran, and that rightly
>is considered a mistake. Fortran 77 used to treat whitespace as always
>optional, so that in Python terms this:
>
>forxinrange(42)
>
>would be parsed as this:
>
>for x in range(42)
Absolutely tr
On 2011-08-15, Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 6:54 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> As a rule, chaining method calls risks violating the Law of Demeter. Just
>> sayin'.
> Not in the specific case of fluent interfaces[1] though, which could
> have been what Seebach had in mind.
They
On 2011-08-15, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> Interesting! I tend to really like the ability to chain methods,
>> depending
>> on context. I find the side-effect/expression mix pretty normal, so I'm
>> used to it.
> As a rule, chaining method calls risks violating the Law of Demeter. Just
> sayin'.
On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 6:54 PM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> Seebs wrote:
>> Interesting! I tend to really like the ability to chain methods,
>> depending
>> on context. I find the side-effect/expression mix pretty normal, so I'm
>> used to it.
>
> As a rule, chaining method calls risks violating
Seebs wrote:
> On 2011-08-14, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> The way I see it, if something operates by side-effect, then it has no
>> business being treated as an expression.
Which I later withdrew.
> Interesting! I tend to really like the ability to chain methods,
> depending
> on context. I
On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 11:46 PM, Roy Smith wrote:
> In article ,
> Dave Angel wrote:
>
>> The thing that confuses people is that not only is the part up to and
>> through the domain name is case-insensitive, but that simple pages on
>> Windows become case-insensitive for the remainder simply be
In article ,
Dave Angel wrote:
> > URLs are most certainly not case insensitive. Parts of them may be
> > (i.e. the scheme and host parts), but not the stuff after the hostname.
> >
> The thing that confuses people is that not only is the part up to and
> through the domain name is case-insens
On 01/-10/-28163 02:59 PM, Roy Smith wrote:
In article<4e47db26$0$30002$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com>,
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Er, most URLs are case insensitive, at least the most common ones, including
HTTP and HTTPS. So I don't quite see why you think this was a Whoops.
URLs are mos
On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Ben Finney wrote:
> The house lights need to be controlled by someone who knows when the
> movie's end signal should be sent. What is our ending signal if we're
> watching it from media in our home, and no-one in the house knows when
> the movie ends?
>
If you're
On 2011-08-14, Teemu Likonen wrote:
> I understand that Python philosophy does not value freedom of expression
> that much. It values a general Pythonic rule which must obeyed and is
> called "readability". Other languages give too little or too much
> freedom. :-)
There is an interesting tradeof
On 2011-08-14, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Seebs wrote:
>> "Destroy data" is a sort of fungible concept. I was reading a comic book
>> recently and it contained a URL for a poem which had been parodied. The
>> URL had been hand-lettered... in block capitals. The actual URL had
>> exactly one upper
On 2011-08-14, Chris Angelico wrote:
> Yes. Not everything's an expression; a block of code is not an
> expression that returns a code object, and variable assignment is a
> statement. Some day, I'd like to play around with a language where
> everything's an expression and yet it doesn't look like
Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 3:26 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> Yes, print as a statement was a mistake. But assignment as a statement,
>> not so much. Assignment as an expression in languages that have it tends
>> to be associated with frequent errors.
>>
>> The way I see it
In article <4e47db26$0$30002$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com>,
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Er, most URLs are case insensitive, at least the most common ones, including
> HTTP and HTTPS. So I don't quite see why you think this was a Whoops.
URLs are most certainly not case insensitive. Parts of
On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 3:26 PM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> Yes, print as a statement was a mistake. But assignment as a statement, not
> so much. Assignment as an expression in languages that have it tends to be
> associated with frequent errors.
>
> The way I see it, if something operates by side-
Seebs wrote:
> "Destroy data" is a sort of fungible concept. I was reading a comic book
> recently and it contained a URL for a poem which had been parodied. The
> URL had been hand-lettered... in block capitals. The actual URL had
> exactly one upper case letter in it.
>
> Whoops.
Er, most U
Ben Finney wrote:
Chris Angelico writes:
On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 8:10 AM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
Do you get worried by books if the last page doesn't include the
phrase "The End"? These days, many movies include an extra clip
following the credits. When the clip finishes, and the screen go
* 2011-08-14T09:34:26+01:00 * Chris Angelico wrote:
> Some day, I'd like to play around with a language where everything's
> an expression and yet it doesn't look like LISP - just for the fun of
> it. It probably won't be any more useful for real world coding, but
> it'd be fun to tinker with.
Of
Chris Angelico writes:
> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 8:10 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
> > Do you get worried by books if the last page doesn't include the
> > phrase "The End"? These days, many movies include an extra clip
> > following the credits. When the clip finishes, and the screen goes
> >
Seebs writes:
> I was utterly dumbfounded when I found out that "print" in Python is a
> kind of statement, not a function or something comparable. (This seems
> to have changed recentlyish.)
It has long been recognised as a wart, but it required waiting for an
opportunity for breaking backward
On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:34 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> Yes. Not everything's an expression; a block of code is not an
> expression that returns a code object, and variable assignment is a
> statement. Some day, I'd like to play around with a language where
> everything's an expression and yet i
On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 8:10 AM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> Do you get worried by books if the last page doesn't include the phrase "The
> End"? These days, many movies include an extra clip following the credits.
> When the clip finishes, and the screen goes dark, how long do you sit
> waiting befo
On 2011-08-14, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Seebs wrote:
>> I guess... The parser is explicitly pushing those tokens, but I can't
>> *SEE* those tokens. If I am looking at the end of a really long
>> thing, and I see:
>>
>> blah
>> blah
>>
>> I only know what's happe
Seebs wrote:
> I guess... The parser is explicitly pushing those tokens, but I can't
> *SEE* those tokens. If I am looking at the end of a really long
> thing, and I see:
>
> blah
> blah
>
> I only know what's happening if I have absolute confidence that the
> in
On Aug 12, 4:06 pm, Seebs wrote:
> On 2011-08-12, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
> > Why is left-to-right inherently more logical than
> > multiplication-before-addition?
>
> I'd say it's certainly "more Pythonic in a vacuum".
> Multiplication-before-addition, and all the related rules, require
> you to
On Aug 12, 7:39 pm, Seebs wrote:
> Consider the hypothetical array syntax:
>
> a = [
> 1,
> 2
> b = [
> 3,
> 4
>
> This *bugs* me. It's perfectly legible, and if you define it that way, it's
> unambiguous and everything, but... It b
On Aug 12, 7:39 pm, Seebs wrote:
> I was overjoyed when I saw that Ruby would let me write 1_048_576.
I'll have to admit that Ruby has a few very interesting ideas, this
being one of them. We all know how impossible it can be to eyeball
parse a very long number like this. Having the interpretor
On Aug 12, 7:39 pm, Seebs wrote:
> Well, that's the thing.
>
> In a case like:
>
> if foo:
> if bar:
> blah
> blah
>
> I notice that *NOTHING* lines up with "if bar:". And that affects me
> about the way unmatched brackets do.
For me, i be
On Aug 12, 5:03 pm, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Responding to Rick's standard {EDIT} posts
> is like wrestling with a {EDIT}
> [...]
> Save yourself a lot of aggravation and kill-file him now.
Kindly allow Walter E. Kurtz to shine some light on this situation:
""" Pig after pig, cow after cow, vil
On 2011-08-13, Ben Finney wrote:
> Seebs writes:
>> What's being pushed into the stream to indicate that the first outdent
>> is two outdents and the second is one?
> See http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html> for a
> comprehensive discussion of the lexing done on Python source.
Chris Angelico wrote:
But both of these violate XKCD 859.
For the benefit of all those who just went off to read
that strip, here's something to help you unwind:
)
There, you can relax now.
--
Greg
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Seebs writes:
> What's being pushed into the stream to indicate that the first outdent
> is two outdents and the second is one?
See http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html> for a
comprehensive discussion of the lexing done on Python source.
To examine the resulting code objects,
On 2011-08-13, Terry Reedy wrote:
> I have been indenting code neatly for at least 32 years whenever the
> language I used allowed it. Just over 14 years ago, when Python was an
> obscure little known or used languge, I adopted it *because* it dropped
> all the redundant bracket noise and looke
On 2011-08-12, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Seebs wrote:
>> You know, that's why the outdents-without-symbols bug me; I have a
>> thing with a colon on it introducing something, and then there's nothing
>> ending it.
> But there is something ending it: a change in indentation level.
Hmm.
Okay, here
On 8/12/2011 6:14 PM, Seebs wrote:
I am responding to your whole line of posts.
I have been indenting code neatly for at least 32 years whenever the
language I used allowed it. Just over 14 years ago, when Python was an
obscure little known or used languge, I adopted it *because* it dropped
a
On 08/12/2011 05:50 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
You can write Perl code in the shape of a camel. Can you do that in Python?
Okay. Open challenge to anyone. Write a Python script that outputs
"Just another Python hacker" or some such message, and is shaped in
some way appropriately. And no fair doi
Chris Angelico writes:
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 11:39 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
> > ask most writers or artists and they would say *of course*
> > whitespace matters.
>
> You can write Perl code in the shape of a camel. Can you do that in
> Python?
I'm glad to be using a language where that
On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 11:39 PM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> ask most writers or artists and they would say *of course*
> whitespace matters.
You can write Perl code in the shape of a camel. Can you do that in Python?
Okay. Open challenge to anyone. Write a Python script that outputs
"Just another
Seebs wrote:
> You know, that's why the outdents-without-symbols bug me; I have a
> thing with a colon on it introducing something, and then there's nothing
> ending it.
But there is something ending it: a change in indentation level.
Python's parser explicitly pushes INDENT and OUTDENT tokens i
Seebs writes:
> I sometimes enjoy trying to extract information from people like that,
> but I will respect the preferences of the actually-helpful people and
> drop that line of inquiry. :)
Much appreciated, thank you :-)
--
\ “It is well to remember that the entire universe, with o
On 2011-08-12, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Please don't feed the troll. Responding to Rick's standard obnoxious posts
> is like wrestling with a pig -- you get tired and filthy, you never
> accomplish anything useful, and after a while, you realise that the pig is
> enjoying it. Save yourself a lot o
Seebs writes:
> On 2011-08-12, rantingrick wrote:
> > What is with you guys and this need to have your hand held to read
> > code.
>
> Good question! Great to see that the helpful and welcoming community
> is living up to its reputation.
Please be aware that the particular person to whom you'r
Seebs wrote:
> On 2011-08-12, rantingrick wrote:
>> What is with you guys and this need to have your hand held to read
>> code.
>
> Good question! Great to see that the helpful and welcoming community
> is living up to its reputation.
Please don't feed the troll. Responding to Rick's standard
On 2011-08-12, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 5:33 PM, Seebs wrote:
>> I've seen people in C do stuff like:
>> ? ? ? ?for (i = 0; i < N; ++i);
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?a[i] = 0;
>> This is clearly a case where indentation matches intent, but doesn't match
>> functionality, because C a
On 2011-08-12, rantingrick wrote:
> On Aug 12, 11:33?am, Seebs wrote:
>> My brain has quirks. ?Some people call them defects, some don't, but it
>> really doesn't matter; there are things about which my brain is just plain
>> unreliable and I rely moderately heavily on extra visual cues to reduce
On 2011-08-12, Chris Angelico wrote:
> Why is left-to-right inherently more logical than
> multiplication-before-addition?
I'd say it's certainly "more Pythonic in a vacuum".
Multiplication-before-addition, and all the related rules, require
you to know a lot of special rules which are not visibl
On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 6:57 PM, rantingrick
> wrote:
> > I'm glad you brought this up! How about this instead:
> >
> >a = x + y * z
> >
> > ...where the calculation is NOT subject to operator precedence? I
> > always hated using paren
Chris Angelico wrote:
Incidentally, in the original expression, it would be slightly more
sane to write it as:
a = x + y) * z
borrowing from the musical concept that a repeat sign with no
corresponding begin-repeat means to repeat from the beginning. But
both of these violate XKCD 859.
Argh!
On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 6:57 PM, rantingrick wrote:
> I'm glad you brought this up! How about this instead:
>
> a = x + y * z
>
> ...where the calculation is NOT subject to operator precedence? I
> always hated using parenthesis in mathematical calculations. All math
> should resolve in a linea
On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 5:33 PM, Seebs wrote:
> I've seen people in C do stuff like:
>
> for (i = 0; i < N; ++i);
> a[i] = 0;
>
> This is clearly a case where indentation matches intent, but doesn't match
> functionality, because C allows indentation to not-match functionalit
On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 4:33 PM, rantingrick wrote:
> On Aug 12, 2:20 am, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> Pike is very [snip]
>> Pike's purpose is [snip]
>> you go to Pike[snip]
>>
>> I hope I make myself clear, Josephine?
>
> The only thing that is clear to me is that you have a hidden agenda to
> in
On 2011-08-12, Chris Rebert wrote:
> One argument I've heard from braces fans is that sometimes they want
> their own structure, which does not match the actual block structure.
EWW!
> Example:
>
> FILE* f = fopen(...);
> // do stuff with f
> // at this indent level
> fclose(f);
> // bac
On Aug 12, 11:33 am, Seebs wrote:
>
> My brain has quirks. Some people call them defects, some don't, but it
> really doesn't matter; there are things about which my brain is just plain
> unreliable and I rely moderately heavily on extra visual cues to reduce
> the frequency with which I get thin
On 2011-08-12, rantingrick wrote:
> What is with you guys and this need to have your hand held to read
> code.
Good question! Great to see that the helpful and welcoming community
is living up to its reputation.
My brain has quirks. Some people call them defects, some don't, but it
really does
On 2011-08-12, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 7:34 AM, Seebs wrote:
>> If Python with braces wouldn't be Python at all, why on earth does the
>> language even exist?
> Every language has its philosophy.
Yes.
> Etcetera. These are the philosophical decisions made by GvR and the
On 2011-08-12, Ben Finney wrote:
> Seebs writes:
>> Question for y'all:
>>
>> Has anyone here ever ACTUALLY encountered a case where braces -- not
>> indentation -- did not match intent in a C-like language? I'm talking
>> only about cases where braces are *actually present*.
> What a strange l
On 2011-08-12, Ben Finney wrote:
> Seebs writes:
>> I am pretty sure Python is a pretty nice language. However, the
>> indentation thing has screwed me a few times. Furthermore, I know
>> people who like Python a great deal and acknowledge, without much
>> difficulty, that the indentation thing h
On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 3:39 AM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Seebs writes:
>
>> Question for y'all:
>>
>> Has anyone here ever ACTUALLY encountered a case where braces -- not
>> indentation -- did not match intent in a C-like language? I'm talking
>> only about cases where braces are *actually present*.
On Aug 12, 2:20 am, Chris Angelico wrote:
> Pike is very [snip]
> Pike's purpose is [snip]
> you go to Pike[snip]
>
> I hope I make myself clear, Josephine?
The only thing that is clear to me is that you have a hidden agenda to
incorporate pike's functionality into Python -- and this is not the
On Aug 12, 1:34 am, Seebs wrote:
>
> And part of this really is personal taste. I *LIKE* having a matching outdent
> for everything. I like to look at code and see
> blah
> blah
> blah
> blah
> blah
>
> because then I know i
Am 12.08.2011 03:40 schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
The only exception I can think of is *very* early Fortran, and that rightly
is considered a mistake.
ATARI 800XL. Built-in BASIC, acknowledging every command with "READY".
Going over it with the cursor results in "ERROR- 6", meaning "no READ
witho
On 2011-08-12, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> Incidentally, I will happily argue the
>> benefits of Python's significant whitespace, even though I disagree
>> with it; there are quite a few.
>
> Please be careful about conflating significant indentation with significant
> whi
Steven D'Aprano writes:
> Ben Finney wrote:
>
> > Likewise, “end of line as end of statement” has caused me and many
> > others problems.
>
> I don't understand this. Can you give an example?
Many times I have split a line expecting that some bracketing syntax
will cause the statement to continu
Ben Finney wrote:
> Likewise, “end of line as end of statement” has caused me and many
> others problems.
I don't understand this. Can you give an example?
Do you mean, "Sometimes I want more code in a single statement than will
comfortably fit in a single line"?
--
Steven
--
http://mail.p
Seebs writes:
> Question for y'all:
>
> Has anyone here ever ACTUALLY encountered a case where braces -- not
> indentation -- did not match intent in a C-like language? I'm talking
> only about cases where braces are *actually present*.
What a strange limitation. Why are you not comparing apple
From: Vito 'ZeD' De Tullio
:umm... besides "notepad" pretty much any other serious "programmer editor"
:program try to do its best to deal with line wrap: the minimal I found is
:the wrapped line is "indented" at the same level of the flow, but I found
:edi
> :The trouble of dealing with long lines can be avoided by a smart
> :editor. It's called line wrap.
>
> Yeah, usually they just wrap it pretty arbitrarily,
> and you don't have any control, isn't it?
:umm... besides "notepad" pretty much any other serious "programmer editor"
:program try to d
Seebs writes:
> On 2011-08-11, Ben Finney wrote:
> > You're welcome to attempt to demonstrate the superiority of some
> > other Python-with-braces, but it will (a) be un-Pythonic, and (b) be
> > unlikely to gain the efforts of people who don't think what you're
> > addressing is a problem.
>
> I
On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 7:34 AM, Seebs wrote:
> If Python with braces wouldn't be Python at all, why on earth does the
> language even exist?
Every language has its philosophy. Python, as conceived by Guido van
Rossum, is a language which (guys, correct me where I'm wrong
please!):
* Eschews unn
On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 2:40 AM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> Please be careful about conflating significant indentation with significant
> whitespace. Many languages have significant whitespace:
>
> foo bar
>
> is rarely the same thing as
>
> foobar
>
> but is the same as
>
> foo bar
>
> Py
Before I get to the rest of this:
Thinking it through, I've been unreasonable and grumpy here, and I'm trying
to figure this out a bit more.
A general observation: There's no real data here, so far as I can tell.
There is no pair of languages which are exactly identical except for whether
they u
Chris Angelico wrote:
> Incidentally, I will happily argue the
> benefits of Python's significant whitespace, even though I disagree
> with it; there are quite a few.
Please be careful about conflating significant indentation with significant
whitespace. Many languages have significant whitespac
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