On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Friday, September 5, 2014 8:01:00 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> That's one particular example that's from Unix. I've seen (and
>> written) Windows GUI programs that use consoles, too. And OS/2 ones.
>> Can't speak for Mac OS Classi
On Friday, September 5, 2014 8:01:00 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> That's one particular example that's from Unix. I've seen (and
> written) Windows GUI programs that use consoles, too. And OS/2 ones.
> Can't speak for Mac OS Classic as I've never used it, but I'd be
> surprised if it's not
In article ,
Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 4, 2014 7:38:40 PM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> >
> >> So a fairer comparison is: How many applications produce non-debug
> >> output on stderr or stdout? And that would be a
On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Thursday, September 4, 2014 7:38:40 PM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> So a fairer comparison is: How many applications produce non-debug
>> output on stderr or stdout? And that would be a much larger
>> percentage. Even GUI programs wi
On Thursday, September 4, 2014 7:38:40 PM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> So a fairer comparison is: How many applications produce non-debug
> output on stderr or stdout? And that would be a much larger
> percentage. Even GUI programs will, in some cases - for instance, try
> firing up your favo
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 11:37 PM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
>>> You seem to think a print hanging out of a program to be ok, normal.
>>> I consider it exceptional.
>>
>> You keep saying that it's exceptional. You haven't
On 04/09/2014 14:37, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
We often recommend using print as an easy and effective debugging tool. But
we don't (well, I don't) recommend leaving those print statements in the
code once the problem is debugged.
I've given up completely with print for debugging. I start with
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 11:25 PM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> Of course console output is
> often useful, but it is slightly smelly:
>
> - beginners have a tendency to use print when they should be using
> return, and consequently can't easily chain functions together;
>
> - languages like shell scr
Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
>> You seem to think a print hanging out of a program to be ok, normal.
>> I consider it exceptional.
>
> You keep saying that it's exceptional. You haven't really said why.
> It's the simplest form of "program produces o
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 11:15 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> How do each of these apply when comparing
> a. A program that defaults to passing and returning data structures and
>uses print in a very controlled way
>
> b. A program that randomly mixes call/return with input/print
Considering that I'v
Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Rustom Mody
> wrote:
>> On Thursday, September 4, 2014 7:26:56 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 11:48 AM, Rustom Mody wrote:
>>> NO PRINT
>>
>>
>>> Why are you so dead against print?
>>
>> Because it herald
On Thursday, September 4, 2014 12:10:04 PM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> Practicality beats purity.
Nice statement! Now where did I see it?? Let me see...
I see next to it some others:
- Beautiful is better than ugly.
- Explicit is better than implicit.
- Simple is better than complex.
- Com
On Thursday, September 4, 2014 3:59:57 PM UTC+5:30, alister wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 19:33:41 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 4, 2014 7:56:31 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico
> > wrote:
> >> When you start a script, you have a consistent environment - an empty
> >> one. When yo
On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 19:33:41 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Thursday, September 4, 2014 7:56:31 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico
> wrote:
>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
>> > On Thursday, September 4, 2014 7:26:56 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico
>> > wrote:
>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> A patient goes to hospital. The first thing the nurses do (even before the
> doctor arrives) is to stick all kinds of tubes into... eyes, nose, ears and
> other unmentionable places. The doctor arrives and orders a few more
> invasions.
> Some
On Thursday, September 4, 2014 10:33:38 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > Is there some PEP filed called "Abolish print in python 4" ?
> > I dont remember filing any such...
> You screamed "NO PRINT" at us in the voice of Edna Mode. (At lea
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> Is there some PEP filed called "Abolish print in python 4" ?
> I dont remember filing any such...
You screamed "NO PRINT" at us in the voice of Edna Mode. (At least,
that's how I imagined it being said. YMMV.)
> Perhaps you should think of the
On Thursday, September 4, 2014 9:37:05 AM UTC+5:30, Ethan Furman wrote:
> Ridiculous argument after ridiculous argument. Please do not waste our time
> with nonsense.
See my answer (3.) to Chris above.
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Thursday, September 4, 2014 9:20:02 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > | Effect-free programming
> > | -- Function calls have no side effects, facilitating compositional
> > reasoning
> > | -- Variables are immutable, preventing unexpect
On 09/03/2014 08:22 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
On Thursday, September 4, 2014 7:26:56 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 11:48 AM, Rustom Mody wrote:
NO PRINT
Yes, or the OP could work with actual saved .py files and the
reliability that comes from predictable execution e
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> | Effect-free programming
> | -- Function calls have no side effects, facilitating compositional reasoning
> | -- Variables are immutable, preventing unexpected changes to program data
> by other code
> | -- Data can be freely aliased or copied
On Thursday, September 4, 2014 7:26:56 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 11:48 AM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> NO PRINT
> Yes, or the OP could work with actual saved .py files and the
> reliability that comes from predictable execution environments... and
> use print. Why
On Thursday, September 4, 2014 7:56:31 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 4, 2014 7:26:56 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 11:48 AM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> >> NO PRINT
> >> Why are you
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Thursday, September 4, 2014 7:26:56 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 11:48 AM, Rustom Mody wrote:
>> NO PRINT
>
>
>> Why are you so dead against print?
>
> Because it heralds a typical noob code-smell
> [espe
Seymore4Head wrote:
> Ok, I understand now that x is actually the first item in the list.
> What I want is a loop that goes from 1 to the total number of items in
> the list steve.
99% of the time, you don't want that at all. Trust me, iterating over the
values in the list is *nearly* always the
On Thursday, September 4, 2014 7:26:56 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 11:48 AM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> NO PRINT
> Why are you so dead against print?
Because it heralds a typical noob code-smell
[especially when the OP admits that BASIC is his background]
> Yes,
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 11:48 AM, Rustom Mody wrote:
NO PRINT
Yes, or the OP could work with actual saved .py files and the
reliability that comes from predictable execution environments... and
use print. Why are you so dead against print?
ChrisA
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/
On Wednesday, September 3, 2014 11:41:27 PM UTC+5:30, Seymore4Head wrote:
> import math
> import random
> import sys
> b=[]
> steve = [1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89]
> for x in steve:
> print (steve[x])
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> print (steve[x])
> IndexError: list index
On 03/09/2014 19:52, Seymore4Head wrote:
I see that now.
Thanks
Maybe some comments in your code would help you? And also posting an
on-topic title would help too.
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 14:10:42 -0400, Seymore4Head wrote:
> import math import random import sys b=[]
> steve = [1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89]
> for x in steve:
> print (steve[x])
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "C:\Functions\blank.py", line 7, in
> print (steve[x])
On 09/03/2014 11:41 AM, Seymore4Head wrote:
On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 11:33:46 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote:
Python will be incredibly hard if you don't read any of the docs or tutorials
available.
You can't accuse me of that. I have actually read quite a bit. I may
not be picking it up, but I am t
On Wed, 3 Sep 2014 13:11:51 -0600, Ian Kelly
wrote:
>On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Seymore4Head
> wrote:
>> On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 14:10:42 -0400, Seymore4Head
>> wrote:
>>
>>>import math
>>>import random
>>>import sys
>>>b=[]
>>>steve = [1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89]
>>>for x in steve:
On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Seymore4Head
wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 14:10:42 -0400, Seymore4Head
> wrote:
>
>>import math
>>import random
>>import sys
>>b=[]
>>steve = [1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89]
>>for x in steve:
>>print (steve[x])
>>
>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>>
On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 11:55:13 -0700
Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 09/03/2014 11:49 AM, Seymore4Head wrote:
> > On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 14:10:42 -0400, Seymore4Head
> > wrote:
> >
> >> import math
> >> import random
> >> import sys
> >> b=[]
> >> steve = [1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89]
> >> for x in
On Wed, 3 Sep 2014 15:44:47 -0300, Juan Christian
wrote:
>I'm learning Python using this mailist, and the Tutor mailist, reading the
>docs and watching this course, Python Fundamentals (
>http://www.pluralsight.com/training/Courses/TableOfContents/python-fundamentals
>).
>
>Python is really easy
On 09/03/2014 11:49 AM, Seymore4Head wrote:
On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 14:10:42 -0400, Seymore4Head
wrote:
import math
import random
import sys
b=[]
steve = [1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89]
for x in steve:
print (steve[x])
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "C:\Functions\blank.py",
On Wed, 3 Sep 2014 13:28:39 -0500, Skip Montanaro
wrote:
>On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 1:24 PM, MRAB wrote:
>> Iterating over a list yields its contents, not indexes.
>
>Unlike in JavaScript. Not sure where the OP is coming from, but that
>"feature" of JavaScript threw me when I first encountered it.
On Wed, 3 Sep 2014 18:17:27 + (UTC), John Gordon
wrote:
>In Seymore4Head
> writes:
>
>> import math
>> import random
>> import sys
>
>Why are you importing these modules if they're not used?
>
>> b=[]
>
>Likewise b is not used.
>
>> steve = [1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89]
>> for x in
On Wed, 3 Sep 2014 11:19:04 -0700, Rob Gaddi
wrote:
>On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 14:10:42 -0400
>Seymore4Head wrote:
>
>> import math
>> import random
>> import sys
>> b=[]
>> steve = [1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89]
>> for x in steve:
>> print (steve[x])
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call las
On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 14:10:42 -0400, Seymore4Head
wrote:
>import math
>import random
>import sys
>b=[]
>steve = [1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89]
>for x in steve:
>print (steve[x])
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "C:\Functions\blank.py", line 7, in
>print (steve[x])
>In
I'm learning Python using this mailist, and the Tutor mailist, reading the
docs and watching this course, Python Fundamentals (
http://www.pluralsight.com/training/Courses/TableOfContents/python-fundamentals
).
Python is really easy and useful, OP don't blame the language because you
didn't unders
On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 11:33:46 -0700, Ethan Furman
wrote:
>On 09/03/2014 11:10 AM, Seymore4Head wrote:
>> import math
>> import random
>> import sys
>> b=[]
>> steve = [1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89]
>> for x in steve:
>> print (steve[x])
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>F
On 09/03/2014 11:10 AM, Seymore4Head wrote:
import math
import random
import sys
b=[]
steve = [1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89]
for x in steve:
print (steve[x])
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "C:\Functions\blank.py", line 7, in
print (steve[x])
IndexError: list index
On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 1:24 PM, MRAB wrote:
> Iterating over a list yields its contents, not indexes.
Unlike in JavaScript. Not sure where the OP is coming from, but that
"feature" of JavaScript threw me when I first encountered it. My guess
would be that his prior experience includes (at least)
In Seymore4Head
writes:
> import math
> import random
> import sys
Why are you importing these modules if they're not used?
> b=[]
Likewise b is not used.
> steve = [1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89]
> for x in steve:
> print (steve[x])
As you step through the loop, x becomes each
On 2014-09-03 19:10, Seymore4Head wrote:
import math
import random
import sys
b=[]
steve = [1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89]
for x in steve:
print (steve[x])
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "C:\Functions\blank.py", line 7, in
print (steve[x])
IndexError: list index out
On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 14:10:42 -0400
Seymore4Head wrote:
> import math
> import random
> import sys
> b=[]
> steve = [1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89]
> for x in steve:
> print (steve[x])
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "C:\Functions\blank.py", line 7, in
> print (ste
print(x)
:)
2014-09-03 20:10 GMT+02:00 Seymore4Head :
> import math
> import random
> import sys
> b=[]
> steve = [1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89]
> for x in steve:
> print (steve[x])
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "C:\Functions\blank.py", line 7, in
> print (ste
import math
import random
import sys
b=[]
steve = [1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89]
for x in steve:
print (steve[x])
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "C:\Functions\blank.py", line 7, in
print (steve[x])
IndexError: list index out of range
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/
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