* Rhodri James:
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 00:49:50 -, Alf P. Steinbach
wrote:
* Rhodri James:
On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 21:20:20 -, Alf P. Steinbach
wrote:
* Rhodri James:
This is a weird attribution style, by the way. I don't think it helps.
That's a pretty weird thing to comment on.
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 00:49:50 -, Alf P. Steinbach
wrote:
* Rhodri James:
On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 21:20:20 -, Alf P. Steinbach
wrote:
* Rhodri James:
This is a weird attribution style, by the way. I don't think it helps.
That's a pretty weird thing to comment on.
And as far as I
Thad Smith writes:
> Richard Heathfield wrote:
>
>> ... so I cheerfully installed it on the user's desktop machine
>> (Windows ME, would you believe), and then set about configuring the
>> reader, when... ouch! No PDF reader on the machine. Not even an
>> ancient Adobe version. Oh dear. Program s
Richard Heathfield wrote:
... so I cheerfully installed it on the
user's desktop machine (Windows ME, would you believe), and then set
about configuring the reader, when... ouch! No PDF reader on the
machine. Not even an ancient Adobe version. Oh dear. Program suddenly
rendered completely use
* Rhodri James:
On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 21:20:20 -, Alf P. Steinbach
wrote:
* Rhodri James:
This is a weird attribution style, by the way. I don't think it helps.
That's a pretty weird thing to comment on.
And as far as I can see the comment doesn't make sense except as an attempt to
f
On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 21:20:20 -, Alf P. Steinbach
wrote:
* Rhodri James:
This is a weird attribution style, by the way. I don't think it helps.
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 03:26:45 -, Alf P. Steinbach
wrote:
* Rhodri James:
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:53:05 -, Alf P. Steinbach
wrot
* Rhodri James:
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 03:26:45 -, Alf P. Steinbach
wrote:
* Rhodri James:
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:53:05 -, Alf P. Steinbach
wrote:
with the best knowledge of the program's environment, is unable to
handle (such as delete) files or folders with paths greater than
some
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 03:26:45 -, Alf P. Steinbach
wrote:
* Rhodri James:
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:53:05 -, Alf P. Steinbach
wrote:
with the best knowledge of the program's environment, is unable to
handle (such as delete) files or folders with paths greater than some
260 character
* alex23:
"Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
And no, I didn't do any research on that. If it mattered more (e.g. appearing as
statement in the text) I'd have done that. The nice thing about Usenet is that
people rush in to correct things. ;-) http://xkcd.com/386/>
Unfortunately, the idiocy people say
"Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
> And no, I didn't do any research on that. If it mattered more (e.g. appearing
> as
> statement in the text) I'd have done that. The nice thing about Usenet is that
> people rush in to correct things. ;-) http://xkcd.com/386/>
Unfortunately, the idiocy people say on th
In , Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> I'm very very happy that most comments about perceived defects in
> the text and in my responses here, have only disagreements over
> terminology. I had expected a slew of errors being pointed out,
> since I'm new to Python. Still, I'm fairly sure that there
> ac
* Mensanator:
On Oct 30, 2:07 pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
* bartc:
Python has a lot of baggage which is OK if that's what's going to be
used, but otherwise is unnecessary confusion: where to put the program
code (typed in live or in a file, or some combination); whether to call
the file .
On Oct 30, 2:07 pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
> * bartc:
>
>
>
> > Python has a lot of baggage which is OK if that's what's going to be
> > used, but otherwise is unnecessary confusion: where to put the program
> > code (typed in live or in a file, or some combination); whether to call
> > the fil
In , Dann Corbit
wrote:
> In article ,
> r...@see.sig.invalid says...
>>
>> In , Dann
>> Corbit wrote:
>>
>>
>> >
>> > You can read PDF with the ghostscript stuff or the free Adobe
>> > stuff.
>>
>> Agreed. But why should you have to?
>
> As opposed to...?
Something you can grep.
--
Ri
* bartc:
Python has a lot of baggage which is OK if that's what's going to be
used, but otherwise is unnecessary confusion: where to put the program
code (typed in live or in a file, or some combination); whether to call
the file .py or .pyw; the difference between console and graphical
prog
In article ,
r...@see.sig.invalid says...
>
> In , Dann
> Corbit wrote:
>
>
> >
> > You can read PDF with the ghostscript stuff or the free Adobe stuff.
>
> Agreed. But why should you have to?
As opposed to...?
PDF and PS are no more or less proprietary than any other format. And
Ghostscr
* Alf P. Steinbach:
* bartc:
python.org seems to be the main site. Google "python download" and
that is the first hit.
Their windows download seems to be 13MB against the 32MB of
activestate, and the IDE provided seems more advanced that the
'console window' you have in your tutorial. I'm
* bartc:
python.org seems to be the main site. Google "python download" and that
is the first hit.
Their windows download seems to be 13MB against the 32MB of activestate,
and the IDE provided seems more advanced that the 'console window' you
have in your tutorial. I'm just asking why your
On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> Does that mean that 'print' is still subject to change as of 3.1.1?
Funny that. They removed reduce() when Python moved from 2.6.x to 3.0. They
even removed __cmp__(). Makes me a sad panda.
Is print() subject to change as of 3.1.1? I'd
Alf, I kindly urge you to re-read bartc's comments. He does have a good
point and you seem to be avoiding direct answers.
On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 1:17 PM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * bartc:
>
>> You say elsewhere that you're not specifically teaching Python, but the
>> text is full of technical
Alf P. Steinbach a écrit :
(snip)
Microsoft's
own Windows Explorer, the main GUI shell for Windows, which presumably
was made by the best programmers available
Mouarf !!!
+1 JOFY (=> Joke Of The Year)
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
"Alf P. Steinbach" wrote in message
news:hcdlsp$9a...@news.eternal-september.org...
* bartc:
"Alf P. Steinbach" wrote in message
news:hc8pn3$dd...@news.eternal-september.org...
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
You use the highly commercial-looking activatestate websi
* alex23:
"Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
However, given what I've now learned about the current situation wrt. versions
of Python, where Python 3.x is effectively a new language, and where apparently
ActiveState has no installer for that, I'm rewriting to use the "official"
distribution.
I hope th
"Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
> However, given what I've now learned about the current situation wrt. versions
> of Python, where Python 3.x is effectively a new language, and where
> apparently
> ActiveState has no installer for that, I'm rewriting to use the "official"
> distribution.
I hope the r
* Ethan Furman:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Ethan Furman:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* James Harris:
You get way too deep into Python in places (for a beginner's course in
programming). For example, "from now on I’ll always use from
__future__ in any program that uses print."
Sorry, but I thi
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:05:11 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * James Harris:
>>
>>> You get way too deep into Python in places (for a beginner's course in
>>> programming). For example, "from now on I’ll always use from
>>> __future__ in any program that uses print."
>>
>
* Rhodri James:
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:53:05 -, Alf P. Steinbach
wrote:
There's rather a lot to know about the environment that a program
executes in if one is going to create robust, dependable, generally
usable programs, not just toy examples.
I'd say this was at best an extremely mi
* bartc:
"Alf P. Steinbach" wrote in message
news:hc8pn3$dd...@news.eternal-september.org...
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
I may finally have found the perfect language for a practically
oriented introductory book on programming, namely Python.
C++ was way too comp
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:53:05 -, Alf P. Steinbach
wrote:
There's rather a lot to know about the environment that a program
executes in if one is going to create robust, dependable, generally
usable programs, not just toy examples.
I'd say this was at best an extremely misleading state
In , Richard Heathfield
wrote:
> In <7ku6jhf3a23e...@mid.individual.net>, osmium wrote:
>>
>> In some cultures, implying that someone is illiterate suggests "not
>> smart".
>
> I don't see that at all. Babies are illiterate. Nobody knows whether
> they're smart.
Clarification: nobody knows fo
In <7ku6jhf3a23e...@mid.individual.net>, osmium wrote:
> "Richard Heathfield" wrote:
>
>>> if the OP had just been smarter.
>>
>> Er, no, I didn't have that in mind at all.
>
> In some cultures, implying that someone is illiterate suggests "not
> smart".
I don't see that at all. Babies are illi
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Ethan Furman:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* James Harris:
You get way too deep into Python in places (for a beginner's course in
programming). For example, "from now on I’ll always use from
__future__ in any program that uses print."
Sorry, but I think that hiding su
"Alf P. Steinbach" wrote in message
news:hc8pn3$dd...@news.eternal-september.org...
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
I may finally have found the perfect language for a practically oriented
introductory book on programming, namely Python.
C++ was way too complex for th
* Benjamin Kaplan:
On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
ActiveState is simplest to install.
However, given what I've now learned about the current situation wrt.
versions of Python, where Python 3.x is effectively a new language, and
where apparently ActiveState has no inst
However, given what I've now learned about the current situation wrt.
versions of Python, where Python 3.x is effectively a new language, and
where apparently ActiveState has no installer for that, I'm rewriting to use
the "official" distribution.
...
ActiveState does have Python 3 installers. Th
On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>
> ActiveState is simplest to install.
>
> However, given what I've now learned about the current situation wrt.
> versions of Python, where Python 3.x is effectively a new language, and
> where apparently ActiveState has no installer for t
* Richard Heathfield:
The best way is the simplest technology that will do the job properly.
If that truly is PDF, okay, use PDF. But it is hard for me to
envisage circumstances where Web content is best presented in that
way.
Google docs sharing. It made a mess of my *Word* documents.
Ch
* Ethan Furman:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* James Harris:
You get way too deep into Python in places (for a beginner's course in
programming). For example, "from now on I’ll always use from
__future__ in any program that uses print."
Sorry, but I think that hiding such concerns is a real disse
"Richard Heathfield" wrote:
>> if the OP had just been smarter.
>
> Er, no, I didn't have that in mind at all.
In some cultures, implying that someone is illiterate suggests "not smart".
There is a formal disconnect there but possibly you can see how someone
might infer that.
At least I found
In <7ktsj6f3bciq...@mid.individual.net>, osmium wrote:
> "Richard Heathfield" wrote:
>
>> A man who cannot express what he needs to express /without/
>> resorting to .pdf format is computer-illiterate.
>
> What format do you suggest?
Firstly, I want to make clear that I'm not objecting to the O
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* James Harris:
You get way too deep into Python in places (for a beginner's course in
programming). For example, "from now on I’ll always use from
__future__ in any program that uses print."
Sorry, but I think that hiding such concerns is a real disservice.
The diss
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
In an environment with other folks that the student can seek
help from it works well, but in a book it's rather off-putting: "hey,
it's page 90!, when are we getting to do real programming?".
Well, in the college where I used to train my pupils I had written a
number
* James Harris:
On 28 Oct, 08:58, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
* tm:
On 28 Okt., 07:52, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
Looking at your topic '(Python in Windows)', without taking a
glimpse at your actual introduction, I have the following to say
* Martin P. Hellwig:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* tm:
On 28 Okt., 07:52, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
Looking at your topic '(Python in Windows)', without taking a
glimpse at your actual introduction, I have the following to say:
I think it is
"Richard Heathfield" wrote:
> A man who cannot express what he needs to express /without/ resorting
> to .pdf format is computer-illiterate.
What format do you suggest? I have some ideas on what I would have used,
but you seem to love these veiled references that there is a better way, if
the
> What would be good is if there was a "balancing book" eg. one specifically
> targeting ubuntu, which is gaining popularity as we mail.
>
Agreed 100%. I opened this thread as I am learning Python, but my
platform is Kubuntu. Of the students in my faculty, about one third
have already moved to Ubu
In , Dann
Corbit wrote:
>
> You can read PDF with the ghostscript stuff or the free Adobe stuff.
Agreed. But why should you have to?
> A man who cannot read .pdf or .ps in today's computer science world
> is a crippled man (IMO-YMMV).
A man who doesn't particularly enjoy relying on proprieta
In , Dann
Corbit wrote:
> In article , al...@start.no
> says...
>>
>> here's the public view of ch 1
>> (complete) and ch 2 (about one third completed, I've not yet
>> settled on a title so it's just chapter "asd"):
>>
>> http://preview.tinyurl.com/progintro
>>
>> Cheers,
>
> Why is c
En Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:49:02 -0300, Alf P. Steinbach
escribió:
I suggested ActiveState because I know from earlier that their packages
are easy to install and provide documentation in reasonable Windows CHM
help file format. I did try the IronPython .NET implementation first
:-). But my
* Dann Corbit:
In article , al...@start.no
Unfortunately Google docs doesn't display the nice table of contents in each
document, but here's the public view of ch 1 (complete) and ch 2 (about one
third completed, I've not yet settled on a title so it's just chapter "asd"):
http://previ
In article ,
ste...@remove.this.cybersource.com.au says...
>
> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 07:52:17 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>
> > Unfortunately Google docs doesn't display the nice table of contents in
> > each document, but here's the public view of ch 1 (complete) and ch 2
> > (about one third
In article , al...@start.no
says...
>
> [Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
>
> Hi.
>
> I may finally have found the perfect language for a practically oriented
> introductory book on programming, namely Python.
>
> C++ was way too complex for the novice, JScript and C# suffe
* Jon Clements:
Inline reply:
On 28 Oct, 11:49, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
* Jon Clements:
On 28 Oct, 08:58, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
[snip]
Without reference to an OS you can't address any of the issues that a beginner
has to grapple with, including most importantly tool usage, without wh
On Oct 28, 11:57 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
> * eb303:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 28, 10:48 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
> >> * eb303:
>
> >>> On Oct 28, 7:52 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
> >>> [snip]
> But since I don't know much Python -- I'm *learning* Python as I write
> -- I know
> >>
Inline reply:
On 28 Oct, 11:49, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
> * Jon Clements:
>
> > On 28 Oct, 08:58, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
> > [snip]
> >> Without reference to an OS you can't address any of the issues that a
> >> beginner
> >> has to grapple with, including most importantly tool usage, with
* Jon Clements:
On 28 Oct, 08:58, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
[snip]
Without reference to an OS you can't address any of the issues that a beginner
has to grapple with, including most importantly tool usage, without which it's
not even possible to get started, but also, very importantly, a file s
On 28 Okt., 09:58, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
> * tm:
>
> > On 28 Okt., 07:52, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
> >> [Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
>
> > Looking at your topic '(Python in Windows)', without taking a
> > glimpse at your actual introduction, I have the following to sa
jajajajajajajajajaja
+1 for Francesco
2009/10/28 Francesco Bochicchio
> >
> > Just to fuel the flame war, consider a million line Python system. It's
> not
> > uncommon with C++. :-)
> >
>
> In python, with one-miliion lines of code, you can demonstrate
> the existence of God, and then demostra
* eb303:
On Oct 28, 10:48 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
* eb303:
On Oct 28, 7:52 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
[snip]
But since I don't know much Python -- I'm *learning* Python as I write -- I know
that there's a significant chance of communicating misconceptions, non-idiomatic
ways to do
>
> Just to fuel the flame war, consider a million line Python system. It's not
> uncommon with C++. :-)
>
In python, with one-miliion lines of code, you can demonstrate
the existence of God, and then demostrate its non-existance by
changing a single line of code :-)
Ciao
-
FB
--
http://ma
On 28 Oct, 08:58, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
> * tm:
>
> > On 28 Okt., 07:52, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
> >> [Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
>
> > Looking at your topic '(Python in Windows)', without taking a
> > glimpse at your actual introduction, I have the following to say
On Oct 28, 10:48 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
> * eb303:
>
> > On Oct 28, 7:52 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
> > [snip]
> >> But since I don't know much Python -- I'm *learning* Python as I write --
> >> I know
> >> that there's a significant chance of communicating misconceptions,
> >> non-id
* eb303:
On Oct 28, 7:52 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
[snip]
But since I don't know much Python -- I'm *learning* Python as I write -- I know
that there's a significant chance of communicating misconceptions, non-idiomatic
ways to do things, bad conventions, etc., in addition to of course plai
2009/10/28 Martin P. Hellwig
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>
>> * tm:
>>
>>> On 28 Okt., 07:52, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
>>>
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
>>>
>>> Looking at your topic '(Python in Windows)', without taking a
>>> glimpse at your actual introduction,
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* tm:
On 28 Okt., 07:52, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
Looking at your topic '(Python in Windows)', without taking a
glimpse at your actual introduction, I have the following to say:
I think it is not a good idea to tea
On 28 Oct, 08:58, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
[snip]
> Without reference to an OS you can't address any of the issues that a beginner
> has to grapple with, including most importantly tool usage, without which it's
> not even possible to get started, but also, very importantly, a file system.
>
> Le
On Oct 28, 7:52 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
[snip]
> But since I don't know much Python -- I'm *learning* Python as I write -- I
> know
> that there's a significant chance of communicating misconceptions,
> non-idiomatic
> ways to do things, bad conventions, etc., in addition to of course plai
2009/10/28 Alf P. Steinbach
> * tm:
>
> On 28 Okt., 07:52, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
>>
>>> [Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
>>>
>>
>> Looking at your topic '(Python in Windows)', without taking a
>> glimpse at your actual introduction, I have the following to say:
>> I thin
* tm:
On 28 Okt., 07:52, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
Looking at your topic '(Python in Windows)', without taking a
glimpse at your actual introduction, I have the following to say:
I think it is not a good idea to teach programming with a foc
On 28 Okt., 07:52, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
> [Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
Looking at your topic '(Python in Windows)', without taking a
glimpse at your actual introduction, I have the following to say:
I think it is not a good idea to teach programming with a focus
on a
In , Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> I may finally have found the perfect language for a practically
> oriented introductory book on programming, namely Python.
> I don't know whether this will ever become an actual book. I hope
> so!
> So I would would be very happy for feedback.
"Sorry, bu
On 28 Oct, 07:44, Jon Clements wrote:
> On 28 Oct, 07:31, Steven D'Aprano
>
>
>
> wrote:
> > On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 07:52:17 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> > > Unfortunately Google docs doesn't display the nice table of contents in
> > > each document, but here's the public view of ch 1 (complete)
2009/10/28 Alf P. Steinbach
> * Chris Rebert:
>
>> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:52 PM, Alf P. Steinbach
>> wrote:
>>
>>> [Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
>>>
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> I may finally have found the perfect language for a practically oriented
>>> introductory book on progra
On 28 Oct, 07:31, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 07:52:17 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> > Unfortunately Google docs doesn't display the nice table of contents in
> > each document, but here's the public view of ch 1 (complete) and ch 2
> > (about one third completed, I've not yet
* Chris Rebert:
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:52 PM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
Hi.
I may finally have found the perfect language for a practically oriented
introductory book on programming, namely Python.
C++ was way too complex for the novice,
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 07:52:17 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> Unfortunately Google docs doesn't display the nice table of contents in
> each document, but here's the public view of ch 1 (complete) and ch 2
> (about one third completed, I've not yet settled on a title so it's just
> chapter "asd"):
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:52 PM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> [Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
>
> Hi.
>
> I may finally have found the perfect language for a practically oriented
> introductory book on programming, namely Python.
>
> C++ was way too complex for the novice, JScri
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
Hi.
I may finally have found the perfect language for a practically oriented
introductory book on programming, namely Python.
C++ was way too complex for the novice, JScript and C# suffered from too
fast-changing specifications and runtime
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