Marco Sulla wrote at 2021-11-20 19:07 +0100:
>I know how to check the refcounts, but I don't know how to check the
>memory usage, since it's not a program, it's a simple library. Is
>there not a way to check inside Python the memory usage? I have to use
>a bash script (I'm on Linux)?
If Python was
On 21/11/21 2:18 pm, Grant Edwards wrote:
My recollection is that it was quite common back in the days before FP
hardware was "a thing" on small computers. CPM and DOS compilers for
various languages often gave the user a choice between binary FP and
decimal (BCD) FP.
It's also very common for
Sorry Chris,
I was talking mathematically where a number like pi or like 1/7 conceptually
have an infinite number of digits needed that are added to a growing sum
using ever smaller powers of 10, in the decimal case.
In programming, and in the binary storage, the number of such is clearly
limited
On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 1:20 PM Rob Cliffe via Python-list
wrote:
>
>
>
> On 21/11/2021 01:02, Chris Angelico wrote:
> >
> > If you have a number with a finite binary representation, you can
> > guarantee that it can be represented finitely in decimal too.
> > Infinitely repeating expansions come
Chris,
You know I am going to fully agree with you that within some bounds, any
combination of numbers that can accurately be represented will continue to be
adequately represented under some operations like addition and subtraction and
multiplication up to any point where they do not overflow
On 21/11/2021 01:02, Chris Angelico wrote:
If you have a number with a finite binary representation, you can
guarantee that it can be represented finitely in decimal too.
Infinitely repeating expansions come from denominators that are
coprime with the numeric base.
Not quite, e.g. 1/14 is
On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 12:56 PM Avi Gross via Python-list
wrote:
>
> Not at all, Robb. I am not intending to demean Mathematicians as one of my
> degrees is in that subject and I liked it. I mean that some things in
> mathematics are not as intuitive to people when they first encounter them,
>
Not at all, Robb. I am not intending to demean Mathematicians as one of my
degrees is in that subject and I liked it. I mean that some things in
mathematics are not as intuitive to people when they first encounter them, let
alone those who never see them and then marvel at results and have expec
On 2021-11-21, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> I think there have been attempts to use a decimal representation in some
>> accounting packages or database applications that allow any decimal numbers
>> to be faithfully represented and used in calculations. Generally this is not
>> a very efficient proce
On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 11:39 AM Avi Gross via Python-list
wrote:
>
> Can I suggest a way to look at it, Grant?
>
> In base 10, we represent all numbers as the (possibly infinite) sum of ten
> raised to some integral power.
Not infinite. If you allow an infinite sequence of digits, you create
num
Can I suggest a way to look at it, Grant?
In base 10, we represent all numbers as the (possibly infinite) sum of ten
raised to some integral power.
123 is 3 times 1 (ten to the zero power) plus
2 times 10 (ten to the one power) plus
1 times 100 (ten to the two power)
123.456 just extends this wi
On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 10:55 AM Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>
> Grant Edwards writes:
>
> > On 2021-11-20, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> >
> >> You seem to be agreeing with me. It's the floating point part that is
> >> the issue, not the base itself.
> >
> > No, it's the base. Floating point can't represent
Am 20.11.21 um 20:15 schrieb Ulli Horlacher:
Stefan Ram wrote:
r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:
except Exception as inst:
print( traceback.format_exc() )
More to the point of getting the line number:
As I wrote in my initial posting:
I already have the line number. I am
Grant Edwards writes:
> On 2021-11-20, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>
>> You seem to be agreeing with me. It's the floating point part that is
>> the issue, not the base itself.
>
> No, it's the base. Floating point can't represent 3/10 _because_ it's
> base 2 floating point. Floating point in base 10
On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 10:01 AM Avi Gross via Python-list
wrote:
> Computers generally use finite methods, sometimes too finite. Yes, the
> problem is not Mathematics as a field. It is how humans often generalize or
> analogize from one area into something a bit different. I do not agree with
> a
On 20/11/2021 22:59, Avi Gross via Python-list wrote:
there are grey lines along the way where some
mathematical proofs do weird things like IGNORE parts of a calculation by
suggesting they are going to zero much faster than other parts and then wave
a mathematical wand about what happens when
Chris,
I generally agree with your comments albeit I might take a different slant.
What I meant is that people who learn mathematics (as I and many here
obviously did) can come away with idealized ideas that they then expect to
be replicable everywhere. But there are grey lines along the way wher
On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 9:22 AM Grant Edwards wrote:
>
> On 2021-11-20, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
> > But you learn that it isn't the same as 1/3. That's my point. You
> > already understand that it is *impossible* to write out 1/3 in
> > decimal. Is it such a stretch to discover that you cannot wr
On 2021-11-20, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> You seem to be agreeing with me. It's the floating point part that is
> the issue, not the base itself.
No, it's the base. Floating point can't represent 3/10 _because_ it's
base 2 floating point. Floating point in base 10 doesn't have any
problem represent
On 2021-11-20, Chris Angelico wrote:
> But you learn that it isn't the same as 1/3. That's my point. You
> already understand that it is *impossible* to write out 1/3 in
> decimal. Is it such a stretch to discover that you cannot write 3/10
> in binary?
For many people, it seems to be.
There ar
On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 8:32 AM Avi Gross via Python-list
wrote:
>
> This discussion gets tiresome for some.
>
> Mathematics is a pristine world that is NOT the real world. It handles
> near-infinities fairly gracefully but many things in the real world break
> down because our reality is not infi
On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 6:51 AM Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>
> Chris Angelico writes:
>
> > On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 3:41 PM Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> >>
> >> Chris Angelico writes:
> >>
> >> > On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 12:43 PM Ben Bacarisse
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Chris Angelico writes:
> >> >>
This discussion gets tiresome for some.
Mathematics is a pristine world that is NOT the real world. It handles
near-infinities fairly gracefully but many things in the real world break
down because our reality is not infinitely divisible and some parts are
neither contiguous nor fixed but in some
Stefan Ram wrote:
> r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:
> >except Exception as inst:
> >print( traceback.format_exc() )
>
> More to the point of getting the line number:
As I wrote in my initial posting:
I already have the line number. I am looking for the source code line!
So f
Chris Angelico writes:
> On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 3:41 PM Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>
>> Chris Angelico writes:
>>
>> > On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 12:43 PM Ben Bacarisse
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Chris Angelico writes:
>> >>
>> >> > On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 9:07 AM Ben Bacarisse
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 10:59 AM Dan Stromberg wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 10:09 AM Marco Sulla
> wrote:
>
>> I know how to check the refcounts, but I don't know how to check the
>> memory usage, since it's not a program, it's a simple library. Is
>> there not a way to check inside Pyth
On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 10:09 AM Marco Sulla
wrote:
> I know how to check the refcounts, but I don't know how to check the
> memory usage, since it's not a program, it's a simple library. Is
> there not a way to check inside Python the memory usage? I have to use
> a bash script (I'm on Linux)?
>
On 2021-11-20 17:45, Marco Sulla wrote:
I checked the documentation:
https://docs.python.org/3/c-api/typeobj.html#number-structs
and it seems that, in the Python C API, the right operators do not exist.
For example, there is nb_add, that in Python is __add__, but there's
no nb_right_add, that in
I know how to check the refcounts, but I don't know how to check the
memory usage, since it's not a program, it's a simple library. Is
there not a way to check inside Python the memory usage? I have to use
a bash script (I'm on Linux)?
On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 at 19:00, MRAB wrote:
>
> On 2021-11-20 1
On 2021-11-20 17:40, Marco Sulla wrote:
Indeed I have introduced a command line parameter in my bench.py
script that simply specifies the number of times the benchmarks are
performed. This way I have a sort of segfault checker.
But I don't bench any part of the library. I suppose I have to creat
I checked the documentation:
https://docs.python.org/3/c-api/typeobj.html#number-structs
and it seems that, in the Python C API, the right operators do not exist.
For example, there is nb_add, that in Python is __add__, but there's
no nb_right_add, that in Python is __radd__
Am I missing something
Indeed I have introduced a command line parameter in my bench.py
script that simply specifies the number of times the benchmarks are
performed. This way I have a sort of segfault checker.
But I don't bench any part of the library. I suppose I have to create
a separate script that does a simple loo
On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 9:49 AM Marco Sulla
wrote:
> I have a battery of tests done with pytest. My tests break with a
> segfault if I run them normally. If I run them using pytest -v, the
> segfault does not happen.
>
> What could cause this quantical phenomenon?
>
Pure python code shouldn't do
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