>> Here's a thought experiment. Imagine that you have a project tree on
>> your file system which includes files written in many different
>> programming languages. Imagine that the files can be assumed to be
>> contiguous for our purposes, so you could view all the files in the
>> project as one
>>> He did no such thing. I challenge you to find me one place where Joel
>>> has *ever* claimed that "the very notion of abstraction" is meaningless
>>> or without use.
> [snip quote]
>> To me, this directly indicates he views higher order abstractions
>> skeptically,
>
> Yes he does, and so we al
On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:26:38 -0400, Nathan Rice wrote:
>> He did no such thing. I challenge you to find me one place where Joel
>> has *ever* claimed that "the very notion of abstraction" is meaningless
>> or without use.
[snip quote]
> To me, this directly indicates he views higher order abstract
On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:35:16 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:28:08 +0200, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
>>
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> I'm currently writing some tests for the error handling of some code.
>>> In this scenario, I must make sure that both the correct exce
On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:08:30 +0200, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> Am 28.03.2012 20:07, schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
>> Secondly, that is not the right way to do this unit test. You are
>> testing two distinct things, so you should write it as two separate
>> tests:
> [..code..]
>> If foo does *not* raise a
> He did no such thing. I challenge you to find me one place where Joel has
> *ever* claimed that "the very notion of abstraction" is meaningless or
> without use.
"When great thinkers think about problems, they start to see patterns.
They look at the problem of people sending each other word-proc
On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:48:40 -0400, Nathan Rice wrote:
> Here's a thought experiment. Imagine that you have a project tree on
> your file system which includes files written in many different
> programming languages. Imagine that the files can be assumed to be
> contiguous for our purposes, so y
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 7:37 PM, Devin Jeanpierre
wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Nathan Rice
> wrote:
>> Well, a lisp-like language. I would also argue that if you are using
>> macros to do anything, the thing you are trying to do should classify
>> as "not natural in lisp" :)
>
> You
On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:37:09 -0400, Nathan Rice wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 9:44 AM, Albert van der Horst
> wrote:
>> In article , Nathan
>> Rice wrote:
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog18.html
> Of course, I will give Joel one point: too many things related to
On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:30:19 -0400, Ross Ridge wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>Your reaction is to make an equally unjustified estimate of Evan's
>>mindset, namely that he is not just wrong about you, but *deliberately
>>and maliciously* lying about you in the full knowledge that he is wrong.
On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:36:34 +, Prasad, Ramit wrote:
>> > Technically, ASCII goes up to 256 but they are not A-z letters.
>> >
>> Technically, ASCII is 7-bit, so it goes up to 127.
>
>> No, ASCII only defines 0-127. Values >=128 are not ASCII.
>>
>> >From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCII
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Nathan Rice
wrote:
> Well, a lisp-like language. I would also argue that if you are using
> macros to do anything, the thing you are trying to do should classify
> as "not natural in lisp" :)
You would run into disagreement. Some people feel that the lisp
philoso
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 4:33 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> Of course it's POSSIBLE. You can write everything in Ook if you want
> to. But any attempt to merge all programming languages into one will
> either:
In that particular quote, I was saying that the reason that you
claimed we can't merge lan
> >> You can't merge all of them without making a language that's
> >> suboptimal at most of those tasks - probably, one that's woeful at all
> >> of them. I mention SQL because, even if you were to unify all
> >> programming languages, you'd still need other non-application
> >> languages to get t
>>From the Zen of Python, "Simple is better than complex." It is a good
>>programming
mentality.
>Complex is better than complicated. :p
Absolutely! Too bad your version would be considered the more “complicated”
version ;)
>With the main navigation menu I will only have the option to select a
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 9:44 AM, Albert van der Horst
wrote:
> In article ,
> Nathan Rice wrote:
>>>
>>> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog18.html
>>
>>I read that article a long time ago, it was bullshit then, it is
>>bullshit now. The only thing he gets right is that the Shann
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 5:00 AM, Ross Ridge wrote:
> Sorry, it would've been more accurate to label the flavour of kool-aid
> Chris Angelico was trying to push as "it's impossible ... without
> encoding":
>
> What is a string? It's not a series of bytes. You can't convert
> it withou
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 3:42 AM, Devin Jeanpierre
wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> You can't merge all of them without making a language that's
>> suboptimal at most of those tasks - probably, one that's woeful at all
>> of them. I mention SQL because, even if y
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Devin Jeanpierre
wrote:
> Agreed with your entire first chunk 100%. Woohoo! High five. :)
Damn, then I'm not trolling hard enough ಠ_ಠ
> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Nathan Rice
> wrote:
>> transformations on lists of data are natural in Lisp, but graph
>> tr
Agreed with your entire first chunk 100%. Woohoo! High five. :)
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Nathan Rice
wrote:
> transformations on lists of data are natural in Lisp, but graph
> transformations are not, making some things awkward.
Eh, earlier you make some argument towards lisp being a uni
On 03/29/12 12:48, Nathan Rice wrote:
Of course, this describes Lisp to some degree, so I still need to
provide some answers. What is wrong with Lisp? I would say that the
base syntax being horrible is probably the biggest issue.
Do you mean something like:
((so (describes Lisp (to degree so
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 6:55 AM, Alexey Luchko wrote:
> On 28.03.2012 18:42, David Robinow wrote:
>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 7:50 AM, Alexey Luchko wrote:
>>> I've tried to build Python 2.7.3rc2 on cygwin and got the following
>>> errors:
>>>
>>> $ CFLAGS=-I/usr/include/ncursesw/ CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/
Ross Ridge wrote:
> Just because I refuse to drink the
> "it's impossible to represent strings as a series of bytes" kool-aid
Terry Reedy wrote:
>I do not believe *anyone* has made that claim. Is this meant to be a
>wild exaggeration? As wild as Evan's?
Sorry, it would've been more accurate to
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 12:44 AM, Nathan Rice
> wrote:
>> We would be better off if all the time that was spent on learning
>> syntax, memorizing library organization and becoming proficient with
>> new tools was spent learning the mathema
> > Technically, ASCII goes up to 256 but they are not A-z letters.
> >
> Technically, ASCII is 7-bit, so it goes up to 127.
> No, ASCII only defines 0-127. Values >=128 are not ASCII.
>
> >From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCII:
>
> ASCII includes definitions for 128 characters: 33 are non
From: Anatoli Hristov [mailto:toli...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:36 PM
To: Prasad, Ramit
Cc: python-list@python.org
Subject: Re: RE: Advise of programming one of my first programs
>>> > Um, at least by my understanding, the use of Pickle is also dangerous if
you
>>> > are n
On 3/29/2012 11:30 AM, Ross Ridge wrote:
No, Evan in his own words admitted that his post was ment to be harsh,
I agree that he should have restrained and censored his writing.
Just because I refuse to drink the
> "it's impossible to represent strings as a series of bytes" kool-aid
I do no
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> You can't merge all of them without making a language that's
> suboptimal at most of those tasks - probably, one that's woeful at all
> of them. I mention SQL because, even if you were to unify all
> programming languages, you'd still need
On 01/-10/-28163 01:59 PM, Ross Ridge wrote:
Evan Driscoll wrote:
People like you -- who write to assumptions which are not even remotely
guaranteed by the spec -- are part of the reason software sucks.
...
This email is a bit harsher than it deserves -- but I feel not by much.
I don't see
On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 11:31:21 +0200, Jabba Laci wrote:
> Is the following function correct? Is the input file closed in order?
>
> def read_data_file(self):
> with open(self.data_file) as f:
> return json.loads(f.read())
Yes.
The whole point of being able to use a file as a context m
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:28:08 +0200, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
Hi!
I'm currently writing some tests for the error handling of some code. In
this scenario, I must make sure that both the correct exception is
raised and that the contained error code is correct:
try:
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>Your reaction is to make an equally unjustified estimate of Evan's
>mindset, namely that he is not just wrong about you, but *deliberately
>and maliciously* lying about you in the full knowledge that he is wrong.
No, Evan in his own words admitted that his post was men
On 3/29/2012 3:18 AM, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
Am 28.03.2012 20:26, schrieb Terry Reedy:
On 3/28/2012 8:28 AM, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
[...]
# call testee and verify results
try:
...call function here...
except exception_type as e:
if not exception is None:
self.assertEqual(e, exception)
Did yo
On 03/29/2012 03:18 AM, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
Am 28.03.2012 20:26, schrieb Terry Reedy:
On 3/28/2012 8:28 AM, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
[...]
# call testee and verify results
try:
...call function here...
except exception_type as e:
if not exception is None:
self.assertEqual(e, exception)
Did
On 3/29/2012 3:28 AM, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
Equality comparison is by id. So this code will not do what you want.
>>> Exception('foo') == Exception('foo')
False
Yikes! That was unexpected and completely changes my idea. Any clue
whether this is intentional? Is identity the fallback when no
On 2012-03-28 23:37, Terry Reedy wrote:
> 2. Decode as if the text were latin-1 and ignore the non-ascii 'latin-1'
> chars. When done, encode back to 'latin-1' and the non-ascii chars will
> be as they originally were.
... actually, in the beginning of my quest, I ran into an decoding
exception tr
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 12:44 AM, Nathan Rice
wrote:
> We would be better off if all the time that was spent on learning
> syntax, memorizing library organization and becoming proficient with
> new tools was spent learning the mathematics, logic and engineering
> sciences. Those solve problems, l
In article ,
Nathan Rice wrote:
>>
>> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog18.html
>
>I read that article a long time ago, it was bullshit then, it is
>bullshit now. The only thing he gets right is that the Shannon
>information of a uniquely specified program is proportional to the
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 9:33 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Rodrick Brown
> wrote:
>> The best skill any developer can have is the ability to pickup languages
>> very quickly and know what tools work well for which task.
>
> Definitely. Not just languages but all
In article <0ved49-hie@satorlaser.homedns.org>,
Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> I didn't consciously use tabs, actually I would rather avoid them. That
> said, my posting looks correctly indented in my "sent" folder and also
> in the copy received from my newsserver. What could also have an
> in
On 28.03.2012 18:42, David Robinow wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 7:50 AM, Alexey Luchko wrote:
>> I've tried to build Python 2.7.3rc2 on cygwin and got the following errors:
>>
>> $ CFLAGS=-I/usr/include/ncursesw/ CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/include/ncursesw/
>> ./configure
> I haven't tried 2.7.3 yet,
JFI
Reported as
http://bugs.python.org/issue14437
http://bugs.python.org/issue14438
--
Regars,
Alex
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
thanks,
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Am 28.03.2012 20:26, schrieb Terry Reedy:
On 3/28/2012 8:28 AM, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
[...]
# call testee and verify results
try:
...call function here...
except exception_type as e:
if not exception is None:
self.assertEqual(e, exception)
Did you use tabs? They do not get preserved indefini
Am 28.03.2012 20:26, schrieb Terry Reedy:
On 3/28/2012 8:28 AM, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
with self.assertRaises(MyException(SOME_FOO_ERROR)):
foo()
I presume that if this worked the way you want, all attributes would
have to match. The message part of builtin exceptions is allowed to
change,
Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> True. Normally. I'd adapting to a legacy system though, similar to
> OSError, and that system simply emits error codes which the easiest way
> to handle is by wrapping them.
If you have
err = some_func()
if err:
raise MyException(err)
the effort to convert it to
e
Am 28.03.2012 20:07, schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
First off, that is not Python code. "catch Exception" gives a syntax
error.
Old C++ habits... :|
Secondly, that is not the right way to do this unit test. You are testing
two distinct things, so you should write it as two separate tests:
[..code
Ben Finney wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano writes:
>
>> (By the way, I have to question the design of an exception with error
>> codes. That seems pretty poor design to me. Normally the exception *type*
>> acts as equivalent to an error code.)
>
> Have a look at Python's built-in OSError. The various
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