probably too high for this feature.
But what if python lifted the newline requirement for blocks that contain
compound statements? That is, statements that end in a ':' can be
followed by
other statements that end in a ':' on the same line. AFAICT there
would be no
ambiguity
. That's no reason not to have the choice.
Of course, this has to be weighed against the cost of the change.
Best wishes
Rob Cliffe
Let's just keep Python readable rather than see how much we can cram
on a line.
On Wed, Mar 2, 2022, 2:56 PM Jeremiah Paige wrote:
I have on a few
be a subjective one. That's no reason not to have the choice.
Of course, this has to be weighed against the cost of the proposed
change. I'm +0.5 for it.
Best wishes
Rob Cliffe
Let's just keep Python readable rather than see how much we can cram
on a line.
On Wed, Mar 2
data to another file-like object
and counts it would be a feasible solution. Thanks.
Regards,
Matt
From: Barry
Date: Thursday, 3 March 2022 at 2:48 am
To: Davis, Matthew
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Python-ideas] shutil.copyfileobj to return number of bytes copied
You don't
demonstrate. So there is no strong need for a new method for it.
Best wishes
Rob Cliffe
On 10/03/2022 03:42, wfdc via Python-ideas wrote:
Add a "replace" method to tuples that returnsa new tuple with the
element at a given index replaced with a given value. Example
implementation:
d
This is a common scenario on python-list or python-ideas:
Someone has an idea that they think is the greatest thing since sliced
bread. They propose it, and feel hurt / rejected when they get pushback
instead of everyone jumping up and down and saying how brilliant it is.
Sometimes they are
iner, but not "index". I suggest it's harder than
you think. (Try it!)
How much harder? Can you post your candidate?
It was you that said it could be a 1-liner. The burden of proof is on
you, if you still want to argue the point.
Rob Cliffe
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rden of proof is on
you, if you still want to argue the point.
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h a function should be part of the standard library.
Well, you are 1 user. Have you evidence that there are (many) others?
Best wishes
Rob Cliffe
--- Original Message ---
On Thursday, March 10th, 2022 at 8:38 PM, Rob Cliffe via Python-ideas
wrote:
This could cause confusion because st
would
that precision information come from?
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https:
ace, I don’t have
a strong opinion about that because I don’t have a use case for this feature
myself.
Ronald
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Blog: https://blog.ronaldoussoren.net/
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> On 10 Apr 2022, at 11:20, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 at 18:44, Ronald Oussoren via Python-ideas
> mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8 Apr 2022, at 16:33, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>> On
his at runtime, or
as a lint tool.
Ronald
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https://mail.pyt
itor service health
while Response(status=200, json={"stats": stats}) := health_check():
print(stats)
time.sleep(5)
See above - shouldn't try to assign to a literal.
Best wishes,
Rob Cliffe
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a sub-expression, and it Just Works if you use the assignment statement
instead.
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urrent type checker
regime, I thought it might be worth discussing. Apologies if I missed any more
recent discussions.)
Thanks,
Aaron
[1]
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/[email protected]/thread/OVIHVRKFUN4KMDTVSIAAN2CGR7VXFGQS/#GE6RDNWTR4PPKSMKSGMCFBFUJ4
tax proposed
> in the PEP is exactly right - not too hot, not too cold. But, like the Oracle
> at Delphi in Greek mythology, it doesn’t tell me why, so I don’t have a
> rebuttal for the arguments against the PEP syntax.
- Aaron
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quot; anyway. I do
appreciate the responses and discussion!
Thanks,
Aaron
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On 07/06/2022 15:28, [email protected] wrote:
I think
```
d.get(key, default=3)
```
way more readable than
```
d.get(key, 3)
I completely agree.
Best wishes
Rob Cliffe
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On 08/06/2022 15:40, Eric V. Smith via Python-ideas wrote:
On 6/7/2022 4:59 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 at 00:36, wrote:
Hello!
Do you know if there has been discussions around why is the default
argument is positional only in the dict methods get and pop?
I think
; type(mygen())
Best wishes
Rob Cliffe
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https://mai
ng could be added piecemeal to iterators such as open() according
to demand.
Of course, for non-reusable iterators it would be forbidden to go
backwards (or even remain in the same place):
agen[42]
agen[41]
ValueError: Generator has been used up past the slice point. (Better
wordi
I think that its meaning is less clear if one doesn't already know what the
syntax means. I think the code would be easier to skim, however, using that
option after one does know its meaning.
My favorite options are '@' or '?=' (tied), followed by ':=' followed
d version might bridge
that gap by introducing "later" or "defer" or "delay" in a narrow
context, but not foreclosing its later use more broadly.
On Wed, Jun 15, 2022 at 8:38 AM Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
On Tue, Jun 14, 2022 at 11:59:44AM +0100, Rob Cliffe v
, but perhaps a slim majority of the small number who have
commented (5 vs 3, I think).
On Thu, Jun 16, 2022, 10:38 PM Steve Jorgensen
wrote:
Is there anything that I can do, as a random Python user to help
move this to the next stage? I'm happy to go along with whatever
the p
On 15/06/2022 23:01, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Wed, Jun 15, 2022 at 01:58:28PM +0100, Rob Cliffe via Python-ideas wrote:
Please. This has been many times by several people already. No-one is
going to change their mind on this by now. There's no point in
rehashing it and adding no
sed for
automatically creating complex parsers based on signatures
(https://jsonargparse.readthedocs.io/en/stable/#classes-methods-and-functions).
I do plan to support identifying what **kwargs accepts based on its use. See
all the cases currently supported
https://jsonargparse.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
On 18/06/2022 03:28, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 06:32:36AM +0100, Rob Cliffe wrote:
The bar for adding a new hard keyword to Python is very high.
Likewise for new syntax.
I would suggest less so, provided that it was previously illegal,
because it's backward-
tter than implicit in this case.
You could argue that islice should be made a builtin, but I don't know
that it's used enough to justify that.
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Sorry, but I think all this talk about lazy evaluation is a big red herring:
(1) Python is not Haskell or Dask.
(2) Lazy evaluation is something Python doesn't have, and would be
a HUGE amount of work for Chris (or anyone) to implement (much more, I
would think, than he has alread
osts on the lines of "Why
doesn't this work [as I expected]?" I don't think that anyone,
including Chris, would say that it allows you to do something that you
can't do already (though I might be wrong, but I believe Python is
already Turing-complete 😁). The virtue of th
e to it in the PEP but removed it because it was unhelpful.
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Message archived
On 20/06/2022 17:39, Jeremiah Paige wrote:
On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 5:42 PM Rob Cliffe via Python-ideas
wrote:
To me, the natural implementation of slicing on a non-reusable
iterator
(such as a generator) would be that you are not allowed to go
backwards
or even stand
tentially useful. *ABSOLUTELY*. I don't think anyone
would deny that. Certainly not I.
Let's call "I want late-bound defaults and Python doesn't have them"
Problem A.
Let's call "I want my default value not to be evaluated until needed"
Problem B.
(Of co
dubious to me. As I understand it this would
>> require some fairly deep changes to how evaluation works in Python.
>> Right now in an expression like `type(blah)`, there isn't any way for
>> the evaluation of `blah` to depend on the fact that it happens to occur
>> as an arg
On Tue, Jun 21, 2022 at 4:28 PM Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Jun 2022 at 08:21, Carl Meyer via Python-ideas
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 21, 2022 at 4:10 PM David Mertz, Ph.D. <
> [email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>
e same thing. :-)
>
I’m not sure what you mean. I don’t think there’s any way PEP 690 can
introduce dynamic scoping like this. Can you give an example?
Carl
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would probably stick with the sentinel idiom
which is explicit. I think "n=n" is confusing to an inexperienced
Python user.
You may not think this is important. My opinion is that late-bound
defaults are important. (We may have to agree to differ.) Apart from
anything else: Python
n a function parameter it is not
> processed:
>
> func(Void) == func() == "default"
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> ht
Refer to PEP 3137 and PEP 358.
Bytes objects are for conveying binary data (or encoded strings). Such binary
data is customary specified in hex-dump or base64 format in source files.
It would be nice to introduce a way in python to do that 'natively' (at lexical
analysis time) using
exited. Again, this would be unexpected.
Best wishes
Rob Cliffe
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Message
On 04/12/2022 17:08, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, 5 Dec 2022 at 04:07, Rob Cliffe via Python-ideas
wrote:
On 30/11/2022 20:27, Anony Mous wrote:
Danceswithmice wrote:
The idea is that YOU write "local:", and the interpreter, without you
ever seeing it, promotes that int
mentation.
Ronald
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Blog: https://blog.ronaldoussoren.net/
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On 17/12/2022 16:07, [email protected] wrote:
Python's currently supported string types are just single letter, so the
suggestion is to require tagged strings to be at least two letters.
Er, no:
Python 3.8.3 (tags/v3.8.3:6f8c832, May 13 2020, 22:20:19) [MSC v.1925 32
bit (Intel
rn mystr(str(self).upper())
s = mystr("hello")
print(s.method()) # prints 1234
print(s.upper()) # prints HELLO
print(s.upper().method()) # prints 1234
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at: If you were subclassing str, you would probably want __str__ and
__repr__ (if you were not overriding them) to return plain strings.
Best wishes
Rob Cliffe
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.partition('@', ':')
Beneficially for the caller, the number of tuple elements can be determined
based on the number of positional arguments. For n arguments, a tuple of length
2n + 1 will be returned.
Thank you for any and all feedback.
James
[1] - https://docs.python.org/3/li
("?", "#")'? would it return a tuple of length five?)
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Message archi
(rationale: that would allow
either proposal to advance without delaying the other -- bearing in
mind a hopefully-unlikely chance of merge conflicts if they reach
release-readiness implementation status in parallel)
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tand
it, limited to at-most-one wildcard pattern per match (by sensible
design).
> I would prefer "one bite per call" partition
> to a partition at multiple points.
That does seem clearer - and clearer is, generally, probably better.
I suppose an analysis (that I don'
exactly-once while
the input is scanned (also iterated) exactly-once
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port A_UNIX_MODULE on ImportError
>>> try value = int(x[2]) but value = 0 on IndexError, ValueError
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gards,
James
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tructing
human-readable output (e.g. log output, debug/error messages,
on-screen labels).
Cognitive burden:
This would of course be one more thing to learn.
But I suggest that it is fairly intuitive that
s1 + s2
s1 & s2
both suggest that two strings are being c
typing. Just sayin'.
Best wishes
Rob Cliffe
I admit that I use M-SPC (aka just-one-space) lot in Emacsen, but I
can't recall wanting it in a program in any language.
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it, as Mr Berlier
helpfully informs us, less efficient 😁).
But I can imagine cases where the leftmost string starts with
indentation to start a paragraph (or to correctly indent Python code),
which you want to preserve.
Or perhaps even to make it start in the correct column of a table, ha-ha.
As
You make a very powerful point, Bruce. Much more so IMO than anyone
else has so far.
Unless anyone else can find a convincing rebuttal, I withdraw my proposal.
Best wishes
Rob Cliffe
On 07/03/2023 21:49, Bruce Leban wrote:
On Sun, Mar 5, 2023 at 7:39 PM Rob Cliffe via Python-ideas
wrote
27;\n' +
b''.join(self.lineBuffer))
Lib\site-packages\twisted\conch\client\knownhosts.py:547-549:
hostsFileObj.write(
b"\n".join([entry.toString() for entry in
self._added]) +
b"\n")
Lib\site-packag
;ascii') + b' ' + message]
lines = [b"HTTP/1.0" & str(code).encode('ascii') & message]
There are many examples (too many to list) where '&' could be used but
would not add a great deal of value and its use or non-use would be
l
On 09/03/2023 05:25, Bruce Leban wrote:
On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 4:34 PM Rob Cliffe via Python-ideas
wrote:
It seems to me that it would be useful to be able to make the
str.join()
function put separators, not only between the items of its
operand, but
also optionally at
it is trickier still.
As it is so easy to get these things wrong, perhaps having it built in
is not such a terrible idea?😁
Best wishes
Rob Cliffe
In any case I recommend reaching out for a library like Rich
(https://github.com/Textualize/rich) if you care about formatting the output
or s in middle),
last.lstrip()))
What is harder is to be sure that this would be the expected behaviour
when using a `&` operator on strings.
Why `' a' & 'b'` would produce `'a b'` and `' ' & 'b'` produce `'
b'` for exam
uivalent solution is easier to understand and
to write, and will lead to way less confusion about what join()
actually does.
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t; object.__mro__
(,)
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Message archived
Hi Richard,
On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 at 12:49, Richard Hajek wrote:
>
> I encountered that Enum having a len hid a mistake on my part. If len(Enum)
> raised, my mistake would be immediately apparent, however at the end of the
> day, my mistake was easily found.
Can any Python linting to
should
make it much easier to use "partial" in the future.
Thanks for your consideration.
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Dear All
Python is a "glue" language, its dynamic nature has programming advantage and
performance disadvantage.
The best way to use Python is write Python code for high-level stuff and use
native programming language like C, Rust, Zig, V for low level stuff.
Currently, there is li
parameter `color`
Is there any reason you can't write
pfr =r"\mathjax{{color}}{{text}}".replace("{color}", "blue")
result =r"\mathjax{{color}}{{text}}".replace("{text}", "Spanish") Best wishes
Rob Cliffe
Sorry, -1.
Is this really worth the hassle when you can write (more explicitly)
def my_fun():
raise NotImplementedError # todo
Python has grown steadily more complicated in its lifetime. Usually for
good reasons. But each additional feature adds to the learning curve
and the maintenance
On 12/06/2023 21:11, Barry wrote:
On 12 Jun 2023, at 16:55, BoppreH via Python-ideas
wrote:
Then the empty list creates hard-to-track bugs. I'm familiar with the iterator
protocol and why the behavior above happens, but couldn't it be prevented?
I don’t think so. It is not al
ou do, seems like a good
solution. It means *you* control what meaning it has in the contexts
where it appears.
Best wishes
Rob Cliffe
On 07/06/2023 17:43, Dom Grigonis wrote:
This has been bugging me for a long time. It seems that python doesn’t
have a convention for “Undefined” type.
When I st
topic, and I don't *think* I ever wrote "someone
> should", and I certainly didn't write "PyPa should".
>
> But whatever I or anyone else wrote, my intention was to discuss what
> might be done to address what I think is a real problem/limitation in the
>
On Wed, Jul 5, 2023, 19:06 Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Jul 2023 at 03:57, James Addison via Python-ideas
> wrote:
> > I also agree with a later reply about avoiding the murkier side of
> blockchains / etc. That said, it seems to me (again, sample size one
> anecdata) th
ty use cases.
>
> I don’t want to load a hash table to load a third party module on a UEFI
> interface.
>
> On Thu, Jul 6, 2023 at 9:11 AM James Addison via Python-ideas <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jul 5, 2023, 19:06 Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
hird party module on a UEFI
>> interface.
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 6, 2023 at 9:11 AM James Addison via Python-ideas <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 5, 2023, 19:06 Chris Angelico wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 6 Jul 2023
gnore their (apparent) gaming of the
> ratings but not good for a swarm of robots.
Hi Cameron,
That sounds to me like the basis of a distributed trust network, and
could be useful.
Some thoughts from experience working with Python (and other
ecosystem) packages: after getting to know the usern
On Sun, Jul 9, 2023, 09:13 Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Jul 2023 at 18:06, James Addison via Python-ideas
> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, 9 Jul 2023 at 02:11, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> > > I have always thought that any community scoring system should allow
> > &g
On Sun, Jul 9, 2023, 15:52 Stephen J. Turnbull <
[email protected]> wrote:
> James Addison via Python-ideas writes:
>
> > The implementation of such a system could either be centralized or
> > distributed; the trust signals that human users infer from
I didn't really address your point there; indirectly mine was to reaffirm a
sense that not all participants may want to read the opinions of others
while learning technologies, and that's why I am skeptical of the
suggestions to include subjective user ratings of any kind within Python
On Sun, Jul 9, 2023, 16:25 Paul Moore wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, 9 Jul 2023 at 15:56, Stephen J. Turnbull <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> James Addison via Python-ideas writes:
>>
>> > The implementation of such a system could either be c
solutions to
several proposals.
Well, default is only evaluated if needed; bar is always evaluated.
What is wrong with the Python equivalent
result = default if bar is None else bar
or if you prefer
result = bar if bar is not None else default
Perhaps you didn't know about this construction?
It
On Thu, Jul 20, 2023, 01:19 Rob Cliffe via Python-ideas <
[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> On 15/07/2023 21:08, Dom Grigonis wrote:
>
> Just to add. I haven’t thought about evaluation. Thus, to prevent
> evaluation of unnecessary code, introduction of C-style expres
On Sun, Jul 9, 2023, 23:35 Christopher Barker wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 9, 2023 at 8:37 AM James Addison via Python-ideas <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> ISTM the primary use cases advanced here have been for "naive" users.
>>>> Likely they won'
how a new feature would improve realistic code patterns helps to defend
to proposal.
Ronald
—
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Mastodon: @[email protected].
Blog: https://blog.ronaldoussoren.net/
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Hi Daniil.
Yes, you can do almost same:
tt = 5
while tt := tt - 1:
print(tt)
04.08.2023 9:18, [email protected] пишет:
Currently in Python we have construction like this:
tt = 5
while t:
# do something
tt -= 1
It would be great if in Python we have
r
3-question poll.
https://q5yitzu62.supersurvey.com
Would be interesting to see if my preference is an outlier or not really.
Kind regards,
D. Grigonis
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On 04/08/2023 14:02, Niktar Lirik via Python-ideas wrote:
Hi Daniil.
Yes, you can do almost same:
tt = 5
while tt := tt - 1:
print(tt)
"almost" is right. The OP's version, as far as I can tell, wants to do
post-decrement (test tt, then decrement it)
})
return cls()
> Tim Hoffmann hat am 31.08.2023 10:44 CEST
> geschrieben:
>
>
> The standard pattern to create a sentinel in Python is
>
> >>> Unset = object()
>
> While this is often good enough, it has some shortcomings:
>
> - repr(Uns
The standard pattern to create a sentinel in Python is
>>> Unset = object()
While this is often good enough, it has some shortcomings:
- repr(Unset) is unhelpful:
- copy/deepcopy create a copy of the sentinel object, which can lead to
surprising results such as:
>>>
ch in the right
direction.
Will continue discussing in this context.
> Matthias Görgens hat am 31.08.2023 11:29 CEST
> geschrieben:
>
>
> Seems nice. Just write a library and upload it to one of the usual places?
>
___________
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large memory footprint that is only
needed temporarily.
Best wishes
Rob Cliffe
PS Ooh, not quite true. I have used it to delete a variable that should
no longer be needed to detect accidental illegitimate use of said variable.
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large memory footprint that is only
needed temporarily.
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710
variable_names = [k for k, v in locals().items() if v is 710]
Depending on the Python implementation, variable_names may be ['var1',
'var2'] or it may be empty (depending on whether 710 is interned). It
could also in theory contain one of 'var1', 'var2&#x
nt("Your variable name is "+ variable_name)
it does "work", but it doesn't make much sense with Python's semantics.
You could have two identifiers bound to the same object; which one you
got hold of would be essentially random.
Puzzled.
Rob Cliffe__
on that supports.
Peace,
-Sam
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*puts on contributor hat*
Well all right then! Filed https://github.com/python/cpython/issues/109849,
recapping this and asking some questions about the specifics. I'll try to
put together a PR.
On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 3:49 AM Stephen J. Turnbull <
[email protected]
ent.
As Stephen says, Python often adds new features conservatively, then
extends them later if/when it seems desirable. This happened with the
'@' decorater: originally it came with all manner of restrictions, but
eventually they were removed. IMO this was a good thing because it made
On 12/23/23 02:09, Eric V. Smith via Python-ideas wrote:
On 12/21/2023 4:38 PM, Steve Jorgensen wrote:
I am finding that it would be useful to be able to define a dataclass that is
an abstract base class and define some of its field as abstract.
As I am typing this, I realize that I could
not the best tool for the job!)
* web.refs of possible interest:
https://docs.python.org/3/library/abc.html [noting the >=v3.3 use of
properties (cf "field")
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/51079503/dataclasses-and-property-decorator
https://florimond.dev/en/posts/2018/10/reconciling-da
On 12/23/23 09:51, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sat, 23 Dec 2023 at 07:13, DL Neil via Python-ideas
wrote:
On 12/23/23 02:09, Eric V. Smith via Python-ideas wrote:
On 12/21/2023 4:38 PM, Steve Jorgensen wrote:
I am finding that it would be useful to be able to define a dataclass that is
an
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