.
I just wrote, in
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-ideas/2018-January/048579.html
, that --debug is not sufficient, and that the problematic logic is in
distutils, not setuptools.
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Ivan
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no name of its own. It's supported by every
current web browser and standardized by WHATWG. It's so prevalent that
if you ask a Web browser to decode "iso-8859-1" or "windows-1252", you
will get this encoding _instead_. It is probably the second or third
most commo
On 10.01.2018 0:54, Barry Warsaw wrote:
Steve Barnes wrote:
Currently invoking `python -c "some;separated;set of commands;"` will,
if you need to use any library functions, require one or more import
somelib; sections in the execution string. This results in rather
complex "one l
es. Although I'm not a heavy
pytest user (we use it exclusive at work, but I don't use it much with
my own stuff), having __init__.py files can be useful, especially if you
also have test data you want to access through pkg_resources, or now,
importlib_resources (importlib.resources in Python
I hope nobody will mind too much if I throw in my (relatively
uninformed) 2c before some of the big guns respond.
First: Well done, Chris, for all the work on this. IMHO this could be a
useful Python enhancement (and reduce the newsgroup churn :-)).
On 27/02/2018 22:27, Chris Angelico wrote
On 27/02/2018 22:27, Chris Angelico wrote:
This is a suggestion that comes up periodically here or on python-dev.
This proposal introduces a way to bind a temporary name to the value
of an expression, which can then be used elsewhere in the current
statement.
Hm, apologies. This is in
y to the LHS in the above example. I realise that this is a vague
statement that needs far more definition, but - hand-waving for now - do
you think it would be difficult to change the implementation accordingly?
Rob Cliffe
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("if", "while" etc.)
remained in scope for the rest of that suite. That seems (on balance)
like a Good Thing, and a lot of the rationale for SLNBs. But I didn't
like a temporary variable applying to the LHS of as assignment. So,
with the above change to assignment st
d for.
More maintainable: you only need to add or remove one line or two
adjacent lines per instance, instead of two widely separated lines.
(as long as you're happy to defer the imports, of course).
Regards
Rob Cliffe
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"d"
]).bar()
Causing an error, not with the "d" expression you are working on but
due to what you thought was the previous expression but python turns
it into one.
The , is seen as a delimiter by the programmer not as part of the
operation (or the lack of the ,).
You&#x
squares = [x**2 for x in iterable]
In Python 2.x, you not only have to check whether or not you're already
using "squares" for something, you also need to check whether or not you're
using "x", since the iteration variable leaks.
[...]
For PEP 572, the most
t was
presumably a reasonable one.
Using SLNBs that don't leak into the surrounding local scope is ISTM a
similar decision, and one that, if made, would be made for similar reasons.
Rob Cliffe
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to
sublocal scopes
> -- just let it assign to a local variable in the containing
scope. That's
> the same as what Python does for for-loop variables. Note that for
> comprehensions it still happens to do the right thing (assuming
we interpret
> the compr
On 26/03/2018 13:48, Cammil Taank wrote:
Hi,
I find a common idiom in Python is:
x = x or 'some other value'
This is highly reminiscent of the problem inplace operators solve.
Would it be a good idea to consider an inplace operator for this, perhaps:
x or= 'some other va
(and currently is for comprehensions and generator
expressions).
The standard reply here is that if you can't tell at a glance whether
that's the case, your code is too complex. The Zen of Python says
"Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!&qu
On 28/03/2018 01:19, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 12:08:24AM +0100, Rob Cliffe via Python-ideas wrote:
On 27/03/2018 16:22, Guido van Rossum wrote:
The standard reply here is that if you can't tell at a glance whether
that's the case, your code is too comp
quot;rF" | "Rf"
| "RF"
New unordered 'd' and 'D' prefixes, for 'dedent', applied to multiline
strings only, would multiply the number of alternatives by about 5 and
would require another rewrite of all code (Python or not) that parses
Python cod
intended recipient
you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any
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Some library authors get pretty pissy about implicit imports at the root
On Thu, Apr 26, 2018, 09:37 Paul Moore wrote:
> On 26 April 2018 at 14:29, Julian DeMille via Python-ideas
> wrote:
> > I personally would like a feature where instead of doing `from ... import
> > ...`
> On 26 April 2018 at 14:29, Julian DeMille via Python-ideas
> > wrote:
> >> I personally would like a feature where instead of doing `from ...
> import
> >> ...` (which imports the specified items into the current namespace), one
> >> could use something a
n
args))('x','y','z')
>>> print(x, y, z)
(43, 55, 0)
>>>
Rob Cliffe
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we should optimize for keyboard coding over
voice chat coding. And when I need to refer to it, I say "this bit
here" or I copy paste it.
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Code
into a given statement. Now, where do you up the parentheses?
given (
a = (f(),),
b = whatever?
)
Seems weird.
Cheers,
Cameron Simpson mailto:[email protected]>>
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nostalgically about the old days of Fortran (sorry, FORTRAN), which
doesn't (didn't?) have reserved words at all (nor significant
whitespace, apart from the "start in column 7" rule).
Anyway, just throwing this out. Please tear it apart!
Thanks. :-)
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n my
unsubstantiated opinion not by very much; I suspect that most of the
time an identifier is used in a module, it is used at least once in
contexts where it would still be a SyntaxError if it were a keyword.
Rob Cliffe
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orator, immediately after '@' (the only keyword that's
*syntactically* legal here is 'not', though I'm not sure it would ever
be useful).
Please, imagine how you would write the documentation to explain this.
Then, pl
On 14/05/2018 02:28, Greg Ewing wrote:
Rob Cliffe via Python-ideas wrote:
def and(x, y):
return ...
# and(1,2) # Oops, SyntaxError. Oh, I know:
globals()['and'](1,2) # Works!
If the rule I proposed for "import" were extended to "
te of self, even though it looks like it is.
-CHB
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-)
-CHB
> On the other hand, nanoseconds are slowly making their way to the stdlib
> and to add nanoseconds to datetime we only need a fully backward compatible
> implementation, not even a PEP.
>
> See <https://bugs.python.org/issue15443>.
> ______
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would still require people to change their code when a new keyword was
introduced
* It would be no easier / harder than adding a conventional legal character
-- trailing underscore, or ???
* but now the changed code would no longer run on older versions of python.
I guess it comes down to why you&#x
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t mean that it DOES support leap seconds
-CHB
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On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 12:55 PM, Manuel Barkhau wrote:
> continue if not is_valid(elem)
> ...
>
how is this better than:
if not is_valid(elem):
continue
?
But even if it is, that might be a consideration for a new language, but
adding it to pyth
now we really have gotten OT...
But thanks! that was my question!
-CHB
Alexander covered the Python part of this, so I'll answer the possible
> higher-level question: we haven't yet needed a "negative" leap
> second, and it's considered unlikely (but not
On 16/05/2018 10:12, Stephan Houben wrote:
Hi all,
One problem already alluded to with the \identifier syntax is that it
only works
if the old Python version is sufficiently recent to understand \.
What about using parentheses to allow a keyword to be used as an
identifier:
(where)(x, y
d OR and XOR would be the same, but bit shifting would be
different.
And then what do you do if the two bytes objects are not the same length?
If "elementwise", then we should think carefully about that -- no where
else does Python do things elementwise in the standard library -- and we
ties, e.g. would
- - - -
evaluate to
(- -) - (-) # -42
or
(-) - (- -) # +42
or
- ( - ( - ( - ))) # -21
or
- (- - -) # 0
and indeed
+ + + + +
could *in theory* evaluate to
+ ( + ( + ( + ( + # 23
or
(++) + (++) # 46
but I'm sure we could formulate some sensible rules to always get
On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 6:52 AM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> Philosophical arguments about the nature of computer memory aside, byte
> objects in Python are collections of ints.
>
not when you start talking about bit-wise operations :-)
If a "byte" in python was an int
ke it should be a good
> idea, but it leads to more problems than it solves.
>
> --
> Greg
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er with seems kinda pointless -- why not import the one you want?
-CHB
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chris.b
On 24/05/2018 16:54, Alexander Belopolsky wrote:
I have read most of the PEP 572 related threads, but I don't think
I've seen this idea. As many other people mentioned, Python already
allows a trick to introduce local bindings in generator expressions
and list comprehensions. T
ple:
if cond: do_something
Rob Cliffe
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n could be done separately:
a = 0
a_list = [g( a:=f(a, x) ) for x in x_gen]
Rob Cliffe
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terals...]
-CHB
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ds
minutes
hours
days
to the datetime module, and then we could write:
60*seconds == 1*minutes
Without any changes to the language at all.
-CHB
>
>
> - Pål
>
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&g
On 04/06/2018 19:50, Kyle Lahnakoski wrote:
Maybe the Python parser can be made to add an implied multiplication
between a-number-followed-directly-by-a-variable-name. If so, then I
could write:
(2.5HOUR - 14MINUTE + 9300MILLISECOND).total_seconds()
This strikes me as quite a nifty
gt; > Without any changes to the language at all.
>
> This strikes me as more of a personal/team style issue, so probably
> fits better as local definitions in a project's "utilities" module.
>
probably, yes -- that's why I'm not going to push for it. But th
different, because python dicts
have a way to of spelling it that's really pretty straightforward,
performant and robust.
However, .setdefault() is essentially a replacement for:
if key in a_dict:
value = a_dict(key)
else:
a_dict[key] = default_value
value = default_value
or a simi
_something_else
else:
my_dict[key] = val
the same amount of code and I think the explicit check is clearer
Also -- seems kind of odd to raise a KeyError when the key IS there?!?
-CHB
>
> --
> Steve
> ___
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On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 4:42 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> This is a quick and dirty survey of my code:
>
> [steve@ando python]$ grep Path *.py */*.py */*/*.py | wc -l
> 21
> [steve@ando python]$ grep "enumerate(" *.py */*.py */*/*.py | wc -l
> 307
> [steve@a
On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 11:26 AM, Robert Vanden Eynde <
[email protected]> wrote:
> I agree that a big python library is more close to the standard python lib
> than matlab. However, helping transition from matlab is a great concern in
> the python scientific community,
't want to use degrees with
the regular one...
-CHB
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chris.bar...@no
ith trig functions ?
-CHB
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079632679 -inf
1.57079632679 -inf
1.57079632679 -2.61194216074e+15
1.57079632679 -2.61194216074e+15
You'd want to tweak that tolerance value to be as small as possible, and do
somethign to make it more symmetric, but you get the idea.
The goal is that if you have an input that
nographer
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or x in dir(SomeObject) if ]
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es it? Or has someone? Anyone looked?
-CHB
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Hey all,
I've been replying to messages lately, and getting a bounce back:
"""
Hello [email protected],
We're writing to let you know that the group you tried to contact
(python-ideas) may not exist, or you may not have permission to post
messages to the group. A fe
27;, 'Jane'],
'SchoolC': ['Nancy']}
-CHB
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Why not write a helper function? Something like
def group_by(iterable, groupfunc, itemfunc=lambda x:x, sortfunc=lambda
x:x): # Python 2 & 3 compatible!
D = {}
for x in iterable:
group = groupfunc(x)
D[group] = D.get(group, []) + [itemfunc(x)]
if sortfunc is
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d = collections.defaultdict(lambda: [].append)
>> for item in seq:
>> d[key(item)](item)
>> rv = {}
>> for k, v in iteritems(d):
>> rv[k] = v.__self__
>> return rv
>> """
>>
>> If you're willing to install Pandas (and
y=list, student) for school, student in
student_school_list }
But I can't think of an reasonable syntax to make that work.
-CHB
>
> --
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>
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On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 4:59 PM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> Can I make a plea for people to not post code with source highlighting
> as HTML please? It is rendered like this for some of us:
>
> On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 10:01:00AM -0700, Chris Barker via Python-ideas
> wrote:
&
So: never mind
-CHB
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ion to the
collections module.
-CHB
[*] -- before making any decisions about the best API, it would probably be
a good idea to collect examples of the kind of data that people really do
need to group like this. Does it come in (key, value) pairs naturally? or
in one big sequence with a key fun
Ivan,
Did you mean this to go to the list? I hope so, as I've cc-d it this time
:-)
On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 1:20 AM, Ivan Levkivskyi
wrote:
> On 1 July 2018 at 06:18, Chris Barker via Python-ideas <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I'm really
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"""
gr = Grouping(student_school_dict)
assert len(gr) == 3
assert gr['SchoolA'] == ['Fred', 'Mary']
assert gr['SchoolB'] == ['Bob', 'Jane']
assert gr['SchoolC'] == ['Nancy']
def test_simple_sequence_example():
"""
This was a example / use case in Michael Selik's PEP
"""
gr = Grouping(((c.casefold(), c) for c in 'AbBa'))
assert gr == {'a': ['A', 'a'],
'b': ['b', 'B']}
def test_most_common():
gr = Grouping(((c.casefold(), c) for c in 'AbBaAAbCccDe'))
common = gr.most_common()
assert len(common) == len(gr)
common = gr.most_common(2)
print(common)
assert len(common) == 2
assert common == [('a', ['A', 'a', 'A', 'A']), ('b', ['b', 'B', 'b'])]
## You could also specify a custom "collection" type such as a set:
def test_set_single():
gr = Grouping(collection=set)
gr['key'] = 5
gr['key'] = 6
gr['key'] = 5
assert gr['key'] == set((5,6))
def test_set_all_at_once():
gr = Grouping(((c.casefold(), c) for c in 'AbBaAAbCccDe'),
collection=set)
print(gr)
assert len(gr) == 5
assert gr['a'] == set(('a','A'))
assert gr['b'] == set(('b','B'))
assert gr['c'] == set(('c','C'))
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/grouper/grouper.py
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Pyth
ode is slightly more verbose, but it is akin to filter(iterable,
>> function) vs (i for i in iterable if function(i)).
>>
>
> Sometimes I prefer ``map`` and sometimes I prefer a list comprehension.
>
That is a "problem" with python: there are two ways to do things
ax
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ather than "just a function" -- and then it's really obvious where to put
it :-)
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bit klunky)
used everywhere the key function approach can, the opposite is not true
(for when the value needs to be transformed as well.
But in the spirit of "Python has both map and comprehensions", I say let's
use both!
* The default behavior is to process a (key.value) pair.
* A key
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> [email protected]
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s collections anyone in particular's baby? like itertools "belongs" to
Raymond?
-CHB
> On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 12:19 PM Chris Barker via Python-ideas <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 8:24 AM, Steven D'Aprano
>> wro
n use a regular loop with the functions
trigrams = Grouping(key_fun=itemgetter(0, 1),
value_fun=itemgetter(2))
for triple in zip(words[:], words[1:], words[2:]):
trigrams.add(triple)
print(trigrams)
-CHB
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On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 3:53 AM, INADA Naoki wrote:
> But if it happens, I'm -1 on functools and collections.
> They are used very much. Every Python tool import them regardless how
> much of their contents are used.
>
really? collections? what for? I'm guessing name
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is "better"
map(func, iterable)
or
(expression for item in iterable)
given that map existed in Python when comprehensions were added, I tend to
see the latter as more "Pythonic" but that's just me.
So I'm currently lobbying for both :-)
The default is iterable o
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On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 5:13 PM, Michael Selik wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 10:11 PM Chris Barker via Python-ideas <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> * There are types of data well suited to the key function approach, and
>> other data not so well suited to it.
.
>
I think there's more or less consensus on that too.
-CHB
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On Thu, Jul 12, 2018 at 11:05 AM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> I'm not sure that we need a specific module for integer-valued maths. I
> think a more important change would be to allow math functions to be
> written in Python, not just C:
>
> - move the current math l
inputs = ((op_input, op) for op in ops for op_input in op.inputs)
groups = Grouping(inputs, key=itemgetter(0), collection=set)
otherwise, you could have a method to do it:
groups.map_on_groups(set)
(not sure I like that method name, but I hope you get the idea)
OK, back to work.
-CHB
--
On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 12:24 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
>
> Since it isn't necessary for Python to function, I would say we probably
> don''t want to pull it up. Then the maintenance burden grows much more.
>
might make sense to put it on pypi though, if someone want to
eir items. Also, separating the GIL between interpreters may mean
>> we'll need an allocator per interpreter. In that case the
>> deallocation must happen relative to the interpreter where the object
>> was allocated.
>>
>> -eric
>>
>
Thanks for your advice! We're looking for opinions about the overall idea and
workflow, and welcome code reviews after we get our lawyers happy and can
publish the code :)
I'll check python-dev to see if there're some questions
ars.
Here's one of the recent threads (there are more, just search for
'until' in the archives), that might give you some ideas for how this
discussion will progress. :)
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/[email protected]/thread/EDNARFL2RGOE53SLWPTD5ZLJQOYSVDCR
On Tue, M
block) compare to a len-1 loop?
Om
On Tue, 01 Mar 2022 10:04:31 -0600 *[email protected] *
wrote
I have use cases for "do exactly once".
Basically a sequence of actions which can be broken off (when
something goes wrong and the whole process should be a
On 01/03/2022 22:25, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 at 09:24, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Tue, Mar 01, 2022 at 04:04:31PM +, Rob Cliffe via Python-ideas wrote:
I have use cases for "do exactly once".
Basically a sequence of actions which can be broken off (when
While it is too narrow to insist that they only be used with that
meaning, this use doesn't feel like a good fit.
Rob Cliffe
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ht
`while True`
normally introduces a loop that can be executed multiple times or
indefinitely.
Best wishes
Rob cliffe_______
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https
On 02/03/2022 01:02, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 at 10:32, Rob Cliffe via Python-ideas
wrote:
On 01/03/2022 22:25, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 at 09:24, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Tue, Mar 01, 2022 at 04:04:31PM +, Rob Cliffe via Python-ideas wrote:
I
On 02/03/2022 02:01, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 at 12:33, Rob Cliffe via Python-ideas
wrote:
On 02/03/2022 01:02, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 at 10:32, Rob Cliffe via Python-ideas
wrote:
On 01/03/2022 22:25, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 at 09:24
tt
Matthew Davis
Data Analytics Senior Lead
Telstra Energy – Decision Science & AI
E: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> |
M: 0415762868
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