an exception
if :
break 42
except "oops":
except 42:
except break:
# catches all "break"s not already explicitly caught
pass
else:
print("Did not break")
Rob Cliffe
_
e asking a lot.
Guido replied:
Rest assured this is not a problem. In any case it’s the compiler, not
the parser, that generates the bytecode, from the AST. The compiler
always has the full AST available before it is asked to generate any
bytecode. The new parser just allows more flexible syntactic
ro" # No you
didn't, you got a NameError.
(Unless your proposal was specifically to catch just KeyError (or some
other fixed, small set of exceptions) which would greatly limit its
usefulness. I assume it wasn't.)
Best wishes
Rob Cliffe
_____
ments, like min() and max() functions for example.
It would be great if this PEP were to be resurrected.
+1.
Rob Cliffe
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is the PEP 463 syntax?
>
> Though you'd almost certainly want to use a more specific exception.
True.
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th default`
Er, how is this different from
(value = func() except Exception: default)
which is the PEP 463 syntax?
Though you'd almost certainly want to use a more specific exception.
True.
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the position that EAFP is better
than LBYL, or "generally recommended" by Python. (Where do you get that?
From the same sources that are so obsessed with DRY they'd rather
introduce a higher-order-function than repeat one line of code? :-)*
OK, some of the arguments are a bit exagg
if you read the PEP.
Dict display and slices are hardly of "very limited" use. (I can't
comment on annotations, I don't use them.)
Even the "if" expression does not use it.
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On 07/08/2020 16:58, Guido van Rossum wrote:
On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 8:15 AM David Mertz <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I think getting Guido on board would be a huge step. Python has
added quite a bit of new syntax since 2014, and Guido himself is
currently advocatin
On 08/08/2020 02:16, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Fri, Aug 07, 2020 at 06:40:33PM +0100, Rob Cliffe via Python-ideas wrote:
On 07/08/2020 17:16, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
The main problem to me with the exception catching expression is that
you need to add the exception name and several key
11 Aug 2020, at 14:41, William Pickard wrote:
>
> What you're running into is how Python handles default arguments.
>
> Take this for example:
> def my_func(seq=[]):
>print(seq)
>seq.append(42)
>print(seq)
>
> my_func()
> # []
> # [42]
:
> raise TypeError('nom1 and nom2 should be int')
> print(sum('hello',2))
>
> But if they can add what am I am i saying it can decrease lines of this
> function by 50% and also function author should not worry about checking
> types anymore!
> (I
> On 26 Aug 2020, at 17:02, [email protected] wrote:
>
> One suggestion I had for the next Python release is to add type-implication
> support. Many developers have learned Python, but do not want to use it since
> it is slow. An awesome way to fix this is to hav
Dear python enthusiasts,
--(you can skip this part if you're in a hurry)--
4 years ago I was discovering this great language. Already an experienced
software developer and data scientist at that time, accustomed with both
low-level (C++), Object-Oriented (Java), Query (T-SQL), and S
only accepts strict JSON.
loadf:
...
loadf only accepts strict JSON. This is different from loads which
blah-blah-blah
Etc.
Rob Cliffe
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any other cases:
>>> a[n] = 17
>>> a[n] == 17
True
>>> obj.x = "foo"
>>> obj.x == "foo"
True
# Proposed:
>>> f"It is {hh}:{mm} {am_or_pm}" = "It is 11:45 PM"
>>&g
alid inputs to the
function and this effectively pushes the error handling/ input validation out
of `div`
A language that does all this really well is F# (which like python is a
multi-paradigm language that offers both object-oriented and
functional-programming-oriented constructs). The troubl
The error message for using a mutable sequence as a set item or map key
seems to frequently confuse Python beginners. The current wording is:
>>> {[1, 2, 3]: [4, 5, 6]}
TypeError: unhashable type: 'list'
The first thing a Google search finds for "unhashable type"
sion. I do
think it can be useful to have more direct links to documentation, though.
> at least add "unhashable" to the glossary -- after all, both "mutable"
and "immutable" are in there.
I think that's reasonable.
On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 11:41 AM Christophe
Hi Alperen,
Why do you need a class at all rather than just a module with some functions?
Irit
On Tuesday, October 6, 2020, 01:38:21 PM GMT+1, Alperen Keleş
wrote:
Hi,
Please pardon me if my idea is not making sense or already exists, I'm kind of
new to developing in Python but
,
Vincent Siles
Sponsor:TODO
Status:Draft
Type:Standards Track
Content-Type:text/x-rst
Created:16-Sep-2020
Python-Version:3.10
Post-History:07-Oct-2020
Contents
Abstract
Motivation
Parameter-transforming Functions
Arbitrary-length Inhomogeneous Tuples
Tensor Shapes
Specificati
rmediary class definition? I use string literals for state
> names all the time instead of creating objects and importing them all over my
> code because most of the time the mental overhead of imports and the like
> isn't worth the ease and clarity of just passing a string. This
interesting debates about who’s fault it is.
Irit
> On 15 Oct 2020, at 18:53, Ram Rachum wrote:
>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> For many years, I've used a `cache` decorator that I built for caching Python
> functions. Then `functools.lru_cache` was implemented, whic
except AnotherError:
pass
else:
return
try:
something_completely_different
except Whatever:
return NotImplemented
else:
return
I sometimes wish that Python provided nicer syntax for writing a
"pseudo-loop", but I guess it's not an u
On 16/10/2020 01:36, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 10:45 AM Rob Cliffe via Python-ideas
wrote:
One workaround I sometimes use is a pseudo-loop which is executed once
only; whenever the process can be abandoned, I `break` out of the
"loop". It ain't particular
quire manually keeping track of these attributes for each method
I'm caching. I do that sometimes, but it's verbose.
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what you meant? That's what I'm trying to avoid, doing
all that manual work that a cache decorator is supposed to do for me in one
line. _______
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reen and display the updated information.
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Messag
t overhead. My apps
usually aren't.)
Rob Cliffe
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Messag
On 16/10/2020 11:59, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 8:21 PM Rob Cliffe via Python-ideas
wrote:
On 13/10/2020 23:35, Guido van Rossum wrote:
Can one of the educators on the list explain why this is such a
commonly required feature? I literally never feel the need to clear
ot it working! The answer is
\x1b[1A
Thanks for the pointer!
Rob Cliffe
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Me
On 16/10/2020 13:55, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 11:08 PM Rob Cliffe wrote:
On 16/10/2020 11:59, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 8:21 PM Rob Cliffe via Python-ideas
wrote:
On 13/10/2020 23:35, Guido van Rossum wrote:
Can one of the educators on the list
s use case. But I would not want to
install a module on pypi that made use of this. From a software perspective
this is 100% bad practice, but from a practitioner perspective --- and there
are a lot of practitioners that only use Python as a tool (like a DSL) --- I
can see wanting it.
So, that&
st wishes
Rob Cliffe
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incorrect:
x / 2 is unsolvable because x could be infinity
x / 2 > x / 3 (where x > 0; Z+) is indeterminate because if x is
infinity, then they are equal.
Which of these are you arguing should fail if Python changes to
returning [+/-]inf instead of raising ZeroDivisionError?
as
en though bare print statements are nicer for debugging than
parenthesis based debug statements.
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s a really *obscure* and *non-obvious* way of assigning to
variables. I doubt that anybody could readily guess the meaning when
seeing it for the first time. (Frankly, I don't care if something
similar has been implemented in Scala - I still think it's horrible for
Python.)
- Would add
is clearly
readable.
In your example I had to look twice that the 'Response' is the pattern which is
matched
from the 'get' result.
But in the end this argument also applies to the already implemented walrus
operator, so there is that.
Patrick
______
eek for similar functionality, while Stream.forEach is
analogous to Python's map.
On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 9:02 AM wrote:
> Python has many tools for iteration, such as map and filter, that change
> an iterator into another iterator without consuming the iterator. These
> make it simp
ow that:
1. the script you ask Python to run is technically a module,
2. every module has a unique name assigned to it,
3. a module's `__name__` global stores this unique import name,
4. and "__main__" is a magic name for the initial script's module.
But that'
proposed
if __main__:
André
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> On 19 Nov 2020, at 08:48, Paul Moore wrote:
>
> On Thu, 19 Nov 2020 at 07:42, Stéfane Fermigier wrote:
>
>> But cooperation between the PyInstaller team and the Python Packaging
>> Authority, if this doesn't happen already, could probably help.
>
> It
Correction to previous post:
On 11/10/2020 22:47, Wes Turner wrote:
Which of these are you arguing should fail if Python changes to
returning [+/-]inf instead of raising ZeroDivisionError?
assert inf / inf == 1
That should raise an exception; inf/inf is meaningless (just as division
the advantages of a single runnable file, and
>>> all the advantages of NOT including the full Python interpreter with
>>> it.
It is questionable if not including the interpreter is an advantage. One
use case for tools like pyinstaller to to ship applications to end users. Having
to
> On 20 Nov 2020, at 08:13, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer
> wrote:
>
> > - Some people, including me, don't think at this point this is a good idea
> > to integrate PyInstaller in the Python code base.
>
> The maintainer of Py2App said
>
> > FWIW I don
t; for a bunch of popular libraries to make them work.
>
> I've seen this sort of thing in other app bundlers too, e.g.
> last time I looked py2app and py2exe had a bunch of special casing
> for various libraries.
>
> This is quite a big problem, IMO. It makes these tools ver
libraries.
>>
>> This is quite a big problem, IMO. It makes these tools very
>> flakey.
>>
>> What is it about app bundling in Python that makes these things
>> necessary? Something seems very wrong somewhere.
>
> To be honest, I think it's more a case
mmand line.
That said, using PyPI in this way is not necessarily useful even ignoring
platforms where side-loading is frowned upon or even impossible. As a user of
applications I don’t really care in what language an application is written in,
I don’t wan to look in the Python App Store, or the C# Ap
treat it as a single project other than for the release artefacts on
PyPI)
It is probably easier to develop a metadata standard that specifies how
packages can be split up by app bundling tools.
Ronald
—
Twitter / micro.blog: @ronaldoussoren
Blog: https://blog.ronaldoussoren.net/
___
t;>
>>>> But it's not as limiting as you suggest - it *does* preclude most
>>>> scientific use (because of numpy etc) but (for example) a large number
>>>> of web libraries are pure Python.
>>>
>>> Not sure what you mean here, but whil
`set_trace()`
anyway. The use cases Barry and I are addressing are scenarios where one is
forced to use limited toolings, such as fixing a Python helper script shipped
with a third-party application, or troubleshooting on a remote/embedded machine.
In interactive workflows like debugging, every keys
the 27-character command sequence
>`import pdb; pdb.set_trace()` with the 12-character `breakpoint()`. I want to
>take it one step further because 12 characters is still unnecessary wordy.
Qingyao
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T
as written, and rejected by Guido.
Rob Cliffe
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_default_root
> 335 > if not master:
> 336 > raise RuntimeError(f"{self.__class__.__name__!r}:
> 'master' must be defined or a Tk instance must be present!")
> 337 > self._root = master._root()
>
> ... and not relying on this inexplicable Attrib
n.org/pypi/nose2/0.6.5 https://github.com/nose-devs/nose2
--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.
Mark Lawrence
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I don't know if it works on Windows, but at least in Linux pressing
Ctrl-L will do exactly what you describe (as long as the REPL uses readline)
On 17.09.2016 12:51, João Matos wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I would like to suggest adding a clear command (not function) to Python.
> It'
's not really that important.
A motivating reason for adding it to the builtins would be that it can
be written in C instead of Python, and hence be a lot faster.
This should be on the bug tracker as "release blocker" as we clearly
need something that is fast that isn't that imp
m of every python mailing list
email.https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
<https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/>
I don't find teaching children is a laughing matter, neither is the idea
of children learning to code.
In Canada, we have initiatives like Girls Learning Code and
rence
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On 17/10/2016 19:29, Brett Cannon wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2016 at 09:39 Mark Lawrence via Python-ideas
mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 16/10/2016 16:41, Mariatta Wijaya wrote:
>>Her reaction was hilarious:
>>
>>"Whom does he teach? C
nteractive environment, that is *always* present, even
if parts of the interpreter (most notably the import system) aren't
working or have been deliberately disabled
- a day-to-day working environment for Python developers
The prevalence of the latter use case then leads to it also being use
ve to github.
--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.
Mark Lawrence
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Hi,
Here is the follow-up to the "Translated Python documentation" thread on
python-dev [1]_, as a PEP describing the steps to make Python Documentation
Translation official on accessible on docs.python.org.
.. [1] [Python-Dev] Translated Python documentation
(https://mail.python.org
e.
It's a more a sphinx-doc issue than a python doc issue, but it still should be
adressed, see "Enhance rendering of untranslated fuzzy translations".
About switching version in the same language:
A 404 can occur, but is already handled by the current version switcher, which
p
Hi,
So it seems ok to move to the Python organization, github.com/python,
rather than using a different organization.
What do you think?
I think it make more sense, so if it's possible, let's do it, I updated the PEP.
--
Julien Pa
Hi,
I am currently enrolled in computer science program and am currently in 6th
semester. I am comfortable using c++,java,python in general. I know this is
a little late for proposing an idea but i was busy in exams. Besides i
wanted to get into something where i was determined to contribute to
ng to do, and while the benefit doesn't seem much, something like
this would be much prettier and more pythonic than using underscore
variable:
d = [[0] * 5 repeat_for 10]
Why not:
d = [[0] * 5 ] * 10
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On 03/04/2017 02:22, Neil Girdhar wrote:
Same. One day, Python will have a decent parsing library.
Nothing here https://wiki.python.org/moin/LanguageParsing suits your needs?
--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.
Mark
On 12/04/2017 04:04, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 09:28:22PM -0500, Wes Turner wrote:
python -m site
https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/master/Lib/site.py
- _script()
Wes, I have no idea what that code snippet is supposed to do, or even
whether it is supposed
, ask
what you can do for our language.
Mark Lawrence
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where I needed and used such a functionality. I wish for this convenience
in python so that I don't have to suffer going around a tuple.
Can you explain how Go's multiple return values differ from Python's?
Looking at the example here:
https://golang.org/doc/effective_go.html
i
ual numbers of characters in a line, but flake8 sees
the correct python thrue flycheck so it reports errors properly, and you're
still notified you're more than 80 columns long, even if visually there may be
a longer valid line.
Oh and it's also messing with copying and pasting to sh
used_elsewhere(arg, verbose=True):
if verbose:
print("Strength in numbers, eh?", end=" ")
print(arg)
fun.register(int)(used_elsewhere)
But this goes against what a single-dispatch function is, so I think
this is a minor enough use case to not worry about.
__
at our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.
Mark Lawrence
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a.
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/46009985/get-contentcontrol-by-title-or-tag
is the most recent occasion where I had this use case (that is not
Python but the concept is language-agnostic).
--
Regards,
Ivan
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On 30.10.2017 9:29, [email protected] wrote:
If I have understood your use-case, you have a function that returns a
list of results (or possibly an iterator, or a tuple, or some other
sequence):
print(search(haystack, needle))
# prints ['bronze needle',
Generally, packages are compiled for the same processor generation as
the corresponding Python.
But not always -- e.g. NumPy opted for SSE2 even for Py2 to work around
some compiler bug
(https://github.com/numpy/numpy/issues/6428).
I was bitten by that at an old machine once and found out that
On 30.10.2017 17:32, Guido van Rossum wrote:
This is a key example of a case where code speaks. Can you write an
implementation of how you would want single() to work in Python code?
On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 2:49 AM, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-ideas
mailto:[email protected]>>
On 31.10.2017 8:37, [email protected] wrote:
On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 3:50 PM, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-ideas
wrote:
On 30.10.2017 17:32, Guido van Rossum wrote:
This is a key example of a case where code speaks. Can you write an
implementation of how you would want single() to
On 06.11.2017 9:47, Michel Desmoulin wrote:
Hello,
Today I'm going to give a training in Python again.
And again it will go the same way.
On Mac I will have to make people install python, then tell them to use
pip3.
On Windows, I will have to warn them about checking the "
On 07.11.2017 1:48, Chris Barker wrote:
On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Michel Desmoulin
mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I know and you still:
- have to use py -m on windows, python3 linux, python in virtualenv...
can't you use python3 -m pip install .
ever
sh/Ubuntu style environment leaves them at a
disadvantage when they need to develop for actual Windows
environments.
Moreover, one of the key selling points of Python is that it can
interface with anything and everything found in any environment!
Rather than e.g. conjuring up a closed circle with own r
e compiler (32/64 bits or ARM cross-compiler), and
assorted environment variables set to the appropriate include/library
directories.
Could we do something similar for Python?
I.e., Install under the "Python 3.6" start menu an additional
"Python command prompt", which will
sta
On 07.11.2017 23:38, Chris Barker wrote:
with ensurepip, having pip no installed in a python is getting less
common, so maybe this isn't needed anymore, but
pip is problematic in environments that have their own package manager
(i.e. anything but bare Windows) because it doesn't
absolutely! I really, really thought it did (I'm amazed I never heard
from a single student getting bit by that...)
On Windows, use py -X.Y to select the exact version of Python you
want. Maybe Unix should have a launcher like this, too? It doesn't
really need to be any more complex
The `assert' statment was created the same as in previous languages like
C/C++: a check to only do in debug mode, when you can't yet trust your
code to manage and pass around internal data correctly. Examples are
array bounds and object state integrity constraints.
Unlike C, Pytho
On 28.11.2017 5:19, Chris Angelico wrote:
Actually, Python does have a way of disabling assertions (the -O
flag), so they should be treated the same way they are in C.
Assertions should not be used as shorthands for "if cond: raise Exc"
in the general case.
I'm claiming, and pr
On 28.11.2017 6:34, Ned Batchelder wrote:
You are proposing:
assert condition, type, value
Not specifically this, that's just an example.
Actually, the way I'm using them,
assert condition, "error message", type
would probably be the most expressive way.
Why
On 28.11.2017 8:59, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 07:35:45AM +0300, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-ideas wrote:
Actually, the way I'm using them,
assert condition, "error message", type
would probably be the most expressive way.
I disagree that is exp
results in two different interfaces. In normal mode, it enforces
types while in -O, accepts anything that passes the duck test.
Elazar
בתאריך יום ג׳, 28 בנוב׳ 2017, 09:12, מאת Ivan Pozdeev via Python-ideas
mailto:[email protected]>>:
On 28.11.2017 8:59, Steven D'Apran
On 28.11.2017 16:36, Nick Coghlan wrote:
On 28 November 2017 at 15:41, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 05:12:36AM +0300, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-ideas wrote:
Unlike C, Python does the aforementioned checks all the time, i.e. it's
effectively always in "debug mod
On 28.11.2017 20:23, Ethan Furman wrote
On 11/28/2017 08:03 AM, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-ideas wrote:
On 28.11.2017 16:36, Nick Coghlan wrote:
it doesn't need to be a statement any more
>
Another benefit of a statement vs function is only evaluating the
error-related argume
ready was deprecated when the plistlib module was added to the
regular stdlib in Python 2.6.
This is a dict subclass which allows to access items as attributes.
d = plistlib.Dict()
d['a'] = 1
assert d.a == 1
d.b = 2
assert d['b'] == 2
Raymond noticed that that capability
On 29.11.2017 9:08, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 12:31:06PM -0800, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
I also cc python-dev to see if anybody here is strongly in favor or against
this inclusion.
Put me down for a strong -1. The proposal would occasionally save a
few keystoke
On 01.12.2017 1:19, Greg Ewing wrote:
Ivan Pozdeev via Python-ideas wrote:
I needed to hold an external function reference in an object instance
(if I assigned it to an attribute, it was converted into an instance
method).
No, that only happens to functions stored in *class* attributes
signature and the expression of the lambda in its
repr?
>>> lambda x: x**2
It's the same for named functions:
In [1]: def ditto(a): return a
In [2]: ditto
Out[2]:
Are you intending to do the same for them?
This would return an old feature of Python 0.9.1
(ht
g here at first.
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Ivan
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On 07.01.2018 22:32, Christian Tismer wrote:
Hi Chris,
On 07.01.18 18:18, Chris Angelico wrote:
Redirecting this part of the conversation to python-ideas.
On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 3:17 AM, Christian Tismer wrote:
As a side note: In most cases where shell=True is found, people
seem to need
otherwise it will work
fine and the quoted code picks the release lib.
Distutils' designers seem to have thought differently.
Whether the extension is linked against pythonxx_d.lib is governed by
the --debug switch to the `build' command rather than the type of the
running Python
On 09.01.2018 21:35, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-ideas wrote:
On 08.01.2018 0:11, Steve Dower wrote:
It’s not a good idea. You end up with two different C runtimes in
memory that cannot communicate, and many things will not work properly.
If you compile your debug build extension with the non
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