return None
Which makes me think -- yes, it would be nice to have that available in the
standard lib somewhere.
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#x27;clear')
elif sys.platform == 'win32':
def _term_clear():
os.system('cls')
else:
def _term_clear():
pass
(https://github.com/ipython/ipython/blob/master/IPython/utils/terminal.py)
is it so bad to use a subprocess?
-CHB
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On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 1:23 PM Cameron Simpson wrote:
> On 20Dec2020 08:51, Christopher Barker wrote:
> >On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 8:53 PM Guido van Rossum
> wrote:
> >> at sounds like a very special status. Why not os.clear()?
>
> My anger at programmes which gratu
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required in Windows.
so that could be plugged in to the above, with (or not) a fallback to the
system calls.
Anyway, this has been interesting enough to distract me from other things I
should be doing, but I'm moving on now ...
-CHB
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>
> I'm also reminded of Einstein's (or is it?) Everything Should Be Made as
> Simple as Possible, But Not Simpler.
> https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/05/13/einstein-simple/
>
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returned by Python itself?
But anyway, it would certainly be even more disruptive now.
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at in the last 2 minutes.
>
interesting .. any idea what conda package is providing it?
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on build dependencies to avoid scope creep
>
> 4. `python_runtime_dependencies`: I believe this information is already
> captured in PEP-631: Dependency specification in pyproject.toml based on
> PEP 508 (https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0631/)
>
>
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On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 4:35 PM Greg Ewing
wrote:
> On 27/12/20 10:15 am, Christopher Barker wrote:
> > ... the only thing
> > you should *need* is an items() method that returns an iterable (pf
> > pairs of objects).
>
> It seems to me it would be more fundamental to
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t; obj = MyMap(2, 3)
> >>> len(obj)
> TypeError: object of type 'MyMap' has no len()
> >>> obj.keys()
> AttributeError: 'MyMap' object has no attribute 'keys'
> >>> obj['x']
> TypeError: 'MyMap' object is n
On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 12:33 PM Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 12:15 PM Christopher Barker
> wrote:
>
>> Though frankly, I would rather have had it use .items() -- seems more
>> efficient to me, and you do need both the keys and the values, and items
"is* a
Mapping. I see this as a fundamental clash between the concept of an "ABC"
and duck typing -- an ABC defines everything that *could* be needed,
whereas duck typing requires only what is actually needed in a given
context. But if that's the case, it should be documented.
-CHB
well.
I also just noticed something else in the docs -- in typing, there is a
Protocol type -- maybe we could/should pre-define a mapping protocol type?
Or maybe a MinimialMapping ABC, analogous to the Iterable ABC -- though no
idea what to call it that would be clear :-)
-
needed as the language evolves.
>
I don't "have" to do anything, nor does anyone else contributing to
the development or documentation of Python.
But tone aside, I think you're pushing pretty hard for something that
doesn't really fit Python -- again, Duc
ing with
.__dict__ you are doing meta-programming, for which poking around in the
dunders makes perfect sense.
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ot do anything else with it.
Guido has since said that the ABCs are intended to be definitive,
> but the docs don't really make that clear either. (And the ABC doc page
> talks about "APIs", not "protocols"!)
>
I think the ABCs Are definitive -- but what are they
id, an option to do a "shallow" or "deep" conversion in
asdict() makes sense to me.
-CHB
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lace :-)
Eric: what do you think about adding a "shallow" (or "deep") flag to
dataclasses.asdict()
that would then upack only the top-level dataclass?
-CHB
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s json, but I'm not sure how well it fills that need.
>
If you ask me, not very well, and there would have been no need to copy
lists and the like for that purpose anyway.
JSON-compatible Python is a specific thing -- you are either targeting that
or not :-)
> As I said, I don't th
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care about performance (within reason). My use
> case is interactive debugging.
>
>
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d.
I agree.
>> If you made enumerate return a sequence when its input is a sequence,
you would also be able to do enumerate(some_list)[34],
As Chris A mentioned, it's quite easy to wrap list() or tuple() around it
if you want that.
- Chris B
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den bug that might reveal itself in the hands
of end users who knows when in the future. Whereas (B) will be a bug that
is likely to reveal itself fairly quickly (though perhaps also in the
(confused) hands of end users as well)
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#x27;s easy to recommend users to
> enable UTF-8 mode.
>
Back to my idea above -- any way to have that be a pip (and conda)
installable package? So it could be in a requirements file?
Do you mean programs only runs on UTF-8 mode warns if UTF-8 mode is
> not enabled? e.g.
>
> ```
>
t guaranteed that all other supported systems other than Windows
use utf-8? or should UTF8-mode be available everywhere, even though in most
cases it won't make a difference.
-CHB
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ns. And
that's been addressed with with "environments" of various sorts. So it
would be good to leverage that, and have a config file that goes right
along with the environment systems: i.e. it's part of that particular
Python install,
And ideally, it could be installed with p
uot;applications".
packages have their dependencies declared internally (in setup.py, or
pypackage.toml) -- applications have an external requirements file. So
the assume-utf8 package should only be used in a requirements file, not a
package's dependencies.
And I think that's a hel
nce they omit
> encoding='utf-8' all the time.
>
true, but I think many, if not most, folks do not know that they are making
that choice, but rather, not thinking about it, and when it works most of
the time, then they're done (I'm sure guilty of that!).
Anyway, I think othe
nk the site-packages path hasn't been configured yet when this is
needed, so that's a trick.
So if this config file could be somewhere pip could install it I think that
would be helpful. Personally, I'm a conda user, and conda can install files
anywhere in the tree -- so I would l
"UTF8-MODE" (it could be
empty) next to python.exe? That would presumably be faster than having to
actually open and read a file, and would be easy to install.
- CHB
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By the way, if we go with pyvenv.cfg then an option should be added to the
venv command as well.
-CHB
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nda (and maybe
other) environments well.
-Chris B
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u, but you COULD simply use 2 spaces for a
if:with combo.
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re using
or they can't.
> Config file in user profile is fragile. If all venvs start using
> profile directory, it become unmaintainable soon.
>
exactly -- if this is added, I will certianly not recommend anyone use it.
> We can just recommend per-user install for new use
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I)
environments might need it too.
Which is another good reason that having it be something that can be
"turned on" by an virtual environment / requirements file would be very
helpful.
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xtra step you need folks to do by hand. Ideally a package that
could be put in a requirements file. That is, I could simply put
"utf8_mode" in my requirements file(s) and anyone that installed those
requirements into an environment would get it configured.
3) One way to do that that's
I have no time to discuss about helping
> zero Unix users.
>
By all means -- spend your time on what you think is important. You asked
for others' opinions, I've given mine. If you don't agree, so be it.
Thanks for your work on this -- anything you do will be an improvement.
other nice bit
is that eventually, if/when utf-8 becomes the default in a future python,
this becomes a no-op and my users don't have to know anything has changed.
In a way, what I'm looking for is a system-wide equivalent to a
__future__import -- maybe impossible, but it'd be ni
e conflict
than installing a package of a particular version? But this might be a case
for using the pyenv.cfg file -- that IS intended to be manipulated by the
environment tool. Though yes, having it looked for outside of the dir where
python lives is not good.
Have you arrived at a concrete proposal
It's not -- using PYTHONPATH is a "bad idea" I never recommend it to
anyone. It was a nightmare when folks have Python 2 and 3 on the same
machine, but now, in the age of environments, it's still a really bad idea.
It's really important to support configuration per environm
the training environment one way or another anyway?
>
That's why I'd like "one way to do it" on all platforms -- see other parts
of this thread.
-CHB
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Random | area.IsTour):
self.ToggleDynamic(event, 1)
elif ch == "Z" and CanZapImage:
self.Zap(event)
elif ch == "A" and not (area.Dynamic | area.IsTour):
self.ToggleRandom(event, 1)
# Alt-R doesn't always work for some reason, so we give Alt-A as an
alternative
else
e already written
-- any changes to syntax should only be ones that add real functionality or
expressiveness -- a slightly-easier-to-write (and maybe read) anonymous
function syntax is nowhere near that threshold.
-Chris B
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.
> My original was a clear, tabular layout making the code structure
> completely clear, the vertical alignment *highlighting where different
> cases are treated differently and where they are treated similarly*.
> This is just an amorphous mass of code that I find much harder t
.)
>
I'm not sure I'd call it "tricks" -- but anyway, I've found that big nested
ifelses are rarely the cleanest solution -- but not never.
- Chris B.
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oo")
I guess I don't find the proposal or variation worth it to me -- though I
guess it's easier when you are translating code that uses string paths
already -- but not much easier.
-CHB
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a
__dict__. But given that all classes derive from object, and object is of
type type, and classes are of type type -- I still have no idea why we
can't add things to an instance of object.
I suppose adding stuff to the object class itself would be very weird -- as
that would mess with ALL clas
On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 9:17 PM Dennis Sweeney
wrote:
> Does this work?
>
> >>> tuple[(int,) * 7 + (str,)]
> tuple[int, int, int, int, int, int, int, str]
Even better: TImeTuple = tuple[(int,) * 7 + (str,)]
and then:
def time() ->TimeTuple
...
-CHB
o and all that? Well, I used it in the old days because
> that's what the instructions said. But, to be honest, it never made any
> sense.
I agree — keep it all on user land.
-CHB
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ite to code and/or significantly
improve performance.
“Exhibiting intelligence and power” is not enough.
-CHB
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module import sys
would not work?
That might be odd and confusing.
-CHB
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r with infix, hardly anyone is familiar with RPN.
-CHB
Less useful on smaller equations, where algebraic is probably more
> appropriate just because people are used to algebraic:
>
No small advantage.
Frankly, putting long equations all in one line of code will always be hard
to read.
--
for with
to work with files, even without a try block around it. :-(
-CHB
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dict fit in? maybe: {:,} ? kinda ugluy, but provides
more symmetry
The fact that () creates a tuple, but (2) does not is problematic -- way
too late to change anything there, but adding (,) as an optional empty
tuple might help a tiny bit in the future.
-CHB
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me.
I note that PEP8 uses __version__ as an example of a "module level dunder"
-- but only suggests where it should be put, not how it be used :-)
Of course, there will be a need to update the PEP to match current practice
(and setuptools and pip)
Or should this be brought up on
ut let's
not have it be provisional then!
And the fact is, that PEP's been provisional for 13 years, and __version__
is widely, but certainly not universally, adopted. We really should get a
pronouncement on this one way or another.
Thanks,
-CHB
> On Mon, 12 Apr 2021, 19:51 C
territory.
indeed, and that's actually the point here. However, I suspect that the
core devs will strongly rely on PyPA's thoughts on the matter.
> I suspect the best thing to do would be to check with the SC on their
> view, and if they want to toss it in my direction, I'
On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 1:29 PM Serhiy Storchaka
wrote:
> 12.04.21 21:49, Christopher Barker пише:
>
> If I have a time I finish my large patch for getting rid of __version__
> and other outdated variables. It was approved previously
> (
> https://mail.python.org/ar
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ight write, and I suspect most of those are
already covered by string methods.
[actually, I think this is a similar point as that made by David Mertz)
-CHB
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r favour. (Although I'm not as enamoured
> with f-strings as many folks.)
>
I am :-)
But while f-strings do put executable code inside a string, they are more
conceptually similar to regular string literals -- right down to having a
raw version :-)
However, if one wants to go w
an TypeError.
I understand the lesson that is supposed to be provided by making that an
error, but I'm not sure it really helps anyone really learn anything.
would that be more "intuitive" than "".join() maybe -- the fact that the
Error was explicitly added implies that people w
t know whether styling and corporate identity is part of the
> scope,
They just announced a new theme — so yes.
-CHB
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On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 6:28 AM Oscar Benjamin
wrote:
> > > and more difficult error analysis.
> >
> > I don't understand what you mean by "error analysis", unless you're
> > referring to performance degradation due to Fraction propagation.
>
> The error analysis for arithmetic with Fraction is
if you want it for debugging, then static type checkers can do that for you.
2) This would allow another branch of OOP programming to enter Python.
> Read-only member variables. There are Private members in Java and C++.
Then use Java or C++ -- the benefits of Python are not primarily
the syntax
s not a good fit
> for Python.
>
> However:
>
> When you spoke of “like a literal” that brought to mind something else: a
> C preprocccesor like pre-complier time substitution. Which might have some
> use, but it would only work within a single module, so not very useful.
>
threaded code later on.
Personally, I can't think of any times when I would have used this -- maybe
because it wasn't there, so I didn't think about it.
-CHB
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to the language for this minor use case.
>
> --
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> "Do not follow where the path may lead. Go, instead, where there is no
> path, and leave a trail."
> --author unknown
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> > My concern about thread safety is about how easy it would be to make it
> > thread unsafe accidentally.
>
> I'm intrigued what gives you the impression that Python functions and
> classes are, by default, thread safe.
Well, there is thread safe, and there is thread dangerous. I have an
enormo
g. len() in hundreds of separate places in one
function -- you've got a much larger problem.
-CHB
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It's not impossible to understand, but at least
> for me I have to think "is this the syntax or is this an object?"
> every time I see it.
>
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the OP linked, that was a suggested patch to optimize
sum(list_of_lists) -- I'm not sure that's such a bad idea after all.
-CHB
NOTE: One reason I've never had to flatten a list of lists is because I'm a
heavy numpy user -- I'd be more likely to have an ndarray and fla
types. The question is whether that's a good idea.
The fact that it was decided to raise for strings, when an optimization
could have been added answers that question.
Despite my personal opinion, I think the only options are to raise for more
types, with a helpful message, or just leave it al
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were objections to the extension method
> proposal.
>
Let's keep this civil, and assume good intentions -- if something is
irrelevant, it's irrelevant, but please don't assume that the argument was
not made in good faith. For my part I've been following this thread,
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;\r\n".
And the name IS writeLINES -- so why would anyone expect to use it for
anything else -- we still have str.join() after all.
-CHB
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a what might happen on different
platforms.
But in any case, thanks for doing this, it's a great idea.
-CHB
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> > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
g
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--
Christopher Barker, PhD (Chris
es/list/python-ideas@python.org/message/IFVHWIOEYST34IVQVOYX7UA45AU6EQ4O/
> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
--
Christopher Barker, PhD (Chris)
Python Language Consulting
- Teaching
- Scientific Software Development
- Desktop GUI and Web D
cines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food
> from the bellies of the hungry; books from the hands of the
> uneducated; technology from the underdeveloped; and putting
> advocates of freedom in prisons. Intellectual property is
> to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16
thon.org/message/3FKVLFJLVZIARGNIA7VQBJS3V3BAD3O5/
> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
--
Christopher Barker, PhD (Chris)
Python Language Consulting
- Teaching
- Scientific Software Development
- Desktop GUI and Web Development
- wxPython, numpy, scipy, Cython
nt -- there is no standard way to check
emptiness.
-CHB
--
Christopher Barker, PhD (Chris)
Python Language Consulting
- Teaching
- Scientific Software Development
- Desktop GUI and Web Development
- wxPython, numpy, scipy, Cython
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