Mark Roseman added the comment:
Just a note, that an (updated) version of the auto-generated API reference has
been "officially" added to TkDocs ... see https://tkdocs.com/pyref/
Few more things I'd like to do with it in the short term, but it's a decent
starting point
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Would like to throw an idea out for feedback regarding the API reference.
I've done some preliminary work auto-generating documentation via widget
introspection. It's missing a lot, has many bugs, but is far enough along to
give a sense of what thi
Mark Roseman added the comment:
yes this should be closed.. with latest doc updates, most of these are no
longer at all relevant
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Łukasz, thank you very much for your help with getting these changes merged in!
I hope others will chime in with suggestions and/or edits to the newer or
substantially revised sections. There is most definitely lots of room for
improvement.
One specific
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Łukasz, I've got a bunch of individual branches for each of those sections.
What I posted the link to was a merge of all of them just for overview
purposes, but the PR's will be created from the individual branches. I can
start creating those now or
Mark Roseman added the comment:
I would most definitely echo the concern about the massive size of such a
project as well as future maintainability. I don't know anyone who would be
able to do such a thing on a volunteer basis, and I think it would be highly
unlikely that anyone would
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Here's a very rough work-in-progress snapshot:
https://github.com/roseman/cpython/blob/tkinter-docs-snapshot-20210815/Doc/library/tkinter.rst
This includes:
1. Changes I'd mentioned to the intro, external resources, modules, architecture
2. Rewr
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Here are my broad suggestions for improvement (each of these would turn into a
separate PR). Thoughts for/against each?
1. 'See also' section: use this to guide people to what they need. update to
point out challenge of finding material giv
Mark Roseman added the comment:
I was having a peek at the main tkinter doc page again and would like to take a
broader crack at it. I think most of what is there now (life
preserver/reference) needs to be substantially reworked or trimmed.
I think exhaustive description of all methods etc
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Let it go. Changing the Python docs to a behaviour that isn't guaranteed by the
underlying library is a virtual guarantee that a later version of Tk (or even
the way the API it uses behaves on another version of macOS) will have some
other (unre
Mark Roseman added the comment:
I'd argue for removing the links altogether, given the material is very
outdated and from what I recall anything that was there is better covered now
by TkDocs, Shipman, or other resources.
--
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Terry, I agree that Ctrl-C should act just as an interrupt when the debugger is
active. I also agree that a way to interrupt the debugger through the user
interface is needed (in the revised UI, there's an explicit 'stop' b
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Just as a side note for Terry and anyone else testing on macOS... the recent
updates in Tk have smoothed out many of the appearance issues for the classic
widgets. See the attached screen shot tkversions.png comparing 8.6.9 with the
current trunk of the Tk
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Whoops, sorry... there's a "readonly" state flag that disables direct editing
of the entry (like with combobox) and just allows manipulation of the arrows.
I've updated the PR to set that. I've also changed it so that the contents
Change by Mark Roseman :
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stage: test needed -> patch review
pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/22954
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Change by Mark Roseman :
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
have updated/cleaned up the previous patch, and there's a new PR. i realize
this is unfortunately a somewhat monolithic change which might make reviewing
it a bit tough...
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Change by Mark Roseman :
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
I like Terry's idea of providing a better error message than just "invalid
syntax" when we run something that likely isn't a Python file. There doesn't
seem to be any great danger in trying to run any file that would just
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Tal, I gave it a try, I think this is great. For "simple" searches (i.e. what
people do most of the time), a search bar is a lot less klunky than bringing up
a dialog.
Patch seems to work well, would just need a cosmetic update (ttk widgets etc.
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Just noting that the current search dialogs (and others) do not have a
ttk.Frame directly inside the toplevel which encloses all other widgets. They
therefore still display the mismatched backgrounds on macOS.
Given that, should #33987 be reopened? The
Mark Roseman added the comment:
I've put together the first cut of a wrapper that tries to smooth over some of
the non-essential differences in implementation details across platforms, while
still respecting essential platform conventions. It also works around a few
bugs I discovered
Mark Roseman added the comment:
For future reference, if anyone is wondering why the font chooser is so
complicated to use in a way that makes sense across platforms, here is its
current behaviour...
>From the manual:
- configure -font is the font currently shown or font shown when dia
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Elaine, I was just having a look at this the other day too! I agree, this is
definitely worth some effort to get done.
To be honest, I'm not a fan of the vwait solution to force the dialog to be
modal. It doesn't actually make it modal (i.e. you ca
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stage: needs patch -> patch review
pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/22188
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
I've posted a copy at https://tkdocs.com/shipman/
I've lightly modified it to add a site header and explanation of where the
material comes from and caveats about age to each page, and have removed or
crossed out dead links, requests for feedbac
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Hello, also (very) late to this party.
If this would be useful, and unless anyone has any objections, I'd be open to
hosting a copy of John's material on tkdocs.com. I'd add a header to each page
explaining it's an unmaintained archiv
Change by Mark Roseman :
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components: +IDLE
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New submission from Mark Roseman :
When adding a bunch of ttk widgets into a toplevel window, there needs to be an
intervening ttk.Frame to ensure the background of the widgets matches the
overall background.
The reason is the 'toplevel' is part of the classic tk widgets and not t
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Just to note, this remains a PITA. To run gui tests on macOS from a terminal
window seems to require commenting out the SetFrontProcess() call. A better
replacement is needed as noted in the previous discussion, as well this call
was deprecated in OS X 10.9
Mark Roseman added the comment:
For now, using a (likely very minimal) subset of commands/options common to
both classic and ttk spinbox versions in IDLE sounds good.
I was originally thinking stick with "-textvariable" for setting (which works
on both) but I like your idea of a
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Given the difference between the old and new (ttk) spinbox, especially on
macOS, I'd like to incorporate it into IDLE when available. See screenshot
spinbox.png, noting white border around old one.
Terry, can we add a spinbox wrapper to IDLE for the
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
I've made some changes to what Ivan started, which you can find here:
https://github.com/roseman/cpython/tree/tkinter_docs
The first two commits are minor updates/improvements not really related to
threading, and I suspect are uncontroversial.
The
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Ivan, thanks for making a good first pass of this. The thread section still
feels a lot like 'fighting' with the model. Do you mind if I take a crack at
it? Won't get to it for a few days, but in case you have any stuff you're in
the m
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Hi Ivan, thanks for your detailed response. The approach you're suggesting
("Since the sole offender is their threading model, the way is to show them how
it's defective and work towards improving it.") is in the end not something I
think
Mark Roseman added the comment:
This seems very complicated. The official line on threads for Tk has always
been to make all Tk calls from one thread, which is at least predictable and
comprehensible. Is there any reason for Tkinter to suggest anything different?
This ignores the compilation
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Cheryl, regarding the spinbox, as per
http://www.tkdocs.com/tutorial/morewidgets.html#spinbox, the ttk version
appeared in Tk 8.5.9, which might explain it's absence in tkinter.
A wrapper isn't too hard to do of course... e.g.
https://stackov
Mark Roseman added the comment:
The ttk Notebook wouldn't be appropriate as it doesn't scale beyond a small
(generally fixed) number of tabs, and is missing UI to easily add/delete tabs.
There's some discussion of this in earlie
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
FYI, just added a trivial pull request to change the tagline in the about
dialog to 'integrated development and learning environment'. It's showing up as
from python-dev as I hadn't (yet) added my github name to my bpo prefs. Got
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Please go ahead with any of the patches I submitted earlier, credit is
absolutely not an issue.
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Justin, as you say, I think your patch is entirely reasonable as an interim
step, as eventually doing a broader improvement on the preferences dialog as
suggested in #24781 makes sense.
My reworked version used Combobox in similar ways; I think we can safely
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Looks great Terry - thanks. Only nit is that test_click_help_source fails on
Mac, courtesy a leading 'file://' added in the last few lines of path_ok
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
I've done some playing around... not quite there yet, but I think much closer.
First, I assume the 'freeze' on Mac is not a hard freeze, but where the text
window is not responding to events, but if you switch to another app and back,
it works
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Thanks Terry! I'd be good if you want to put a width back on the buttons, but
I'd suggest "width=6" rather than using 8 as it was before.
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Have attached search.diff, which does an initial bit of cosmetics: adds inner
frame with spacing, tweaks a couple labels, and for Mac and X11, puts the
command buttons at the bottom of the dialog rather than on the right (where
they remain on Windows
Mark Roseman added the comment:
I've attached query.patch, which does the cosmetic and layout changes, and adds
a couple Mac-specific things. I've added the inline error message widget but
don't use it yet (as this will involve changes to the subclasses and the tests,
given e
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Just to follow up, both Windows and Linux the 'correct' behaviour seems to be
that space or return activates the button with the current focus. Mac behaves
differently in that return key always activates default button even if focus is
on another b
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Serhiy, the tk_dialog has been superseded by tk_messageBox, and does not
reflect current platform standards. I just tried tk_messageBox on the Mac,
which always activates the default button if you press 'return', even if
another button has the focus
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Great start. Needs to have a ttk.Frame directly inside the toplevel window to
avoid whitespace showing around grey widgets (like in query dialog shot).
I'd also like to see the spacing adjusted (all platforms) and button positions
changed on Mac to go a
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Terry, thanks for the TkDocs correction.
As you'll note from the attached dlgonmac.png, there's a bit of tweaking needed
with regard to geometry management etc. to get the background right.
Now that ttk is ok (so to speak), would you be open to so
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Side note that on Mac OS X, buttons normally don't get the focus, so that this
isn't an issue. Well except that buttons are getting the focus here. :-)
Also since we're reinventing the wheel, please note that alternative keyboard
shortcut
Mark Roseman added the comment:
tried this patch on 3.6 as per terry's previous msg; still getting same error
in idle test suite on os x
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New submission from Mark Roseman:
When we create e.g. string.py that shadows a stdlib module needed by IDLE, it
would be nice if a better error message could be shown, pointing to that cause.
Original message:
lac at smartwheels:~/junk$ echo "print ('hello there')&quo
Mark Roseman added the comment:
This (restructuring/refactoring to minimize the subprocess imports) does
definitely sound like the right approach. There will be other benefits to
breaking up PyShell a bit too..
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Better, but alas still not quite. On further investigation, the issue is that a
new instance of idleConf is instantiated in the subprocess, which then calls
mkdtemp() returning a different name. You can see this by doing 'restart shell'
and noting th
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Further to Terry's backwards compatibility issues (also discussed in #8231).
Storing things in the "correct" location (%APPDATA% on Windows, and Application
Support on OS X) would presumably be the "right" thing to do if backwards
compa
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Just a note that the 'store things in APPDATA' is issue #24765
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Checked on Linux and Mac - doesn't work correctly. mkdtemp() returns a
different name every time it's called, and GetUserCfgDir() is called in three
places, meaning we end up with three different tmp directories (which on quick
examination didn
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Can I suggest that this issue continues to be about IDLE not being able to
write its preferences directory/files due to permissions, and we create a new
issue for the fact that IDLE is storing it in the wrong place under Windows
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
The extra width appears to be coming from the canvas inside
VerticalScrolledFrame; the canvas gets the default size and the frame adjusts
to fit its contents (the canvas and the scrollbar). If you really want to
reduce the size, add a "-width" option
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Same patch against 2.7
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Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file40762/mergeext27.cfg
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Patch against head to change extensions dialog to a pane of main config dialog.
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Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file40761/mergeext.patch
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
No, I don't, sorry. If it will be quick for you to do, no problem, otherwise
I'd be happy to put it together.
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
FYI, the new debugger UI has an option to only show highlights in already open
files (i.e. don't open new ones)
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Okay, that's reasonable enough for me. :-) I'd still be for nuking the warning
so that nothing gets displayed unless you go looking in online help.
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
I'm not against online help, but I feel that what's there wouldn't be helpful
to someone using IDLE.
Once this would be extended to per-tab, what are the problem areas that people
really need help with? Also keeping in mind we're going
Mark Roseman added the comment:
On a more direct note, have attached missingtheme.patch, which ensures that all
queries for the active theme go through CurrentTheme(), which has been modified
to verify that the theme exists; if not, it returns 'IDLE Classic'
--
Added
Mark Roseman added the comment:
I see the 3.4.4 is not an immediate concern, so that's good.
FYI, I get the (multiple) error messages on console consistently on Mac, but it
probably depends how it was launched. Agree the code for future versions should
do a better job to detect the
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Patch write-new-defaults.patch attached so that we write 'newer' default themes
to config-highlight.cfg if selected, and ignore them if we already have a
default by that name.
--
keywords: +patch
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file40674
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Actually, I think we may be able to get away without the warning message when
you select a 'new' theme, and still maintain backwards compatibility.
For 'new' themes (i.e. IDLE Dark and any more builtins we add in the future),
we write the t
Mark Roseman added the comment:
FYI, the change multiple backgrounds thing is in my working version for the new
dialog. Added new issue #25313 to remind us that the warning message is
something we'd love to get rid of in the future and as quickly as possible make
it unnecessary if we add
New submission from Mark Roseman:
As a follow-on to #24820, when a particular theme is selected in the
configuration files, but that theme is not available, IDLE will print out a
bunch of warning messages on console. That can occur for example when using a
newer built-in theme in an older
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Was the 'source' checkbox in the debugger checked?
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Attached a patch to the current config dialog to add breakpoint to the window,
and have updated the same thing in my newer dialog.
--
keywords: +patch
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file40635/breakpoint-prefs.patch
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Before creating another layer on top of the existing layers of configuration
handling, can I suggest for now at least just hard-coding the few things that
are needed in the code itself?
For example, in configHandler.py, after calling LoadCfgFiles, we could
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Hi Marc, you're correct that is an error in the theme. To correct it, change
the setting for 'break-background' to be something like #22. Thanks!
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Thanks Ned.
A couple of things. First, you probably know about this, but for future
reference in case it might be useful, the install_name_tool lets you point a
shared library at a different dependent shared library than the one it was
originally compiled to
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Good start... would have been very helpful for me a couple of months back!
Have attached a patch to your patch, breaking the main implementation into a
few categories, and fixing a few typos.
--
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file40629/README2.diff
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Ned, is there anything that I might be able to help with here? While I'm not a
Mac installer guru, it doesn't look like we'd need anything too fancy here.
Installing an 8.6 variant (via the frameworks approach I mentioned in my
previous message
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Just tried and it seemed to work ok for me. I'm guessing it'll be a particular
Tk version. Noting the timeline on the original bug report and subsequent
comments, that was right when Tk 8.5 switched from Carbon to Cocoa, so it was
probably somethin
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