Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

I'm personally OK with 'ast'. Did I write anything that made you think I wasn't? Of course things are contextual. In VMS one took "AST" to mean "Asynchronous System Trap". But even in VMS it was not confusing in a parsing context. As for "obviously sarcastic", I'm afraid there's this thing ca

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

Richard O'Keefe wrote > First, my message was *defending* most of the short names > that someone else was attacking. For the record, I am > *far* more worried about the fragility of typical Smalltalk > code than I am about method names, which are generally > pretty good. > > ... If by "someone e

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

to talk seriously, I agree #onDNU:do: would be better called with its long name. now, well known acronyms have their place in pharo as complete, self explaining method names too. is about matter of common sense to opt for one or the other (for example, “ln" is more known in maths that its “lon

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

First, my message was *defending* most of the short names that someone else was attacking. For the record, I am *far* more worried about the fragility of typical Smalltalk code than I am about method names, which are generally pretty good. Second, the criterion was implicit but fairly clear: if a

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

> Am 08.05.2018 um 05:15 schrieb Richard O'Keefe : > > #gcd: > #lcm: > > These come from elementary (primary school in my day) mathematics. They are > the standard names. You mean where you live? That excludes 90% and more of the world. So when is a abbreviation ok again? Norbert

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

Why to stop there? We could also change our class prefixes. Why to put HTTPSomething when we could put HyperTextTransferProtocolSomething ? :) cheers! Esteban > On 8 May 2018, at 05:15, Richard O'Keefe wrote: > > #onDNU:do: > > That one's not so good. Not so much because of the acronym, bu

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

#onDNU:do: That one's not so good. Not so much because of the acronym, but because it's unclear about what the argument is. A better name would be #onUndefinedSelector:do: #gcd: #lcm: These come from elementary (primary school in my day) mathematics. They are the standard names. #rem: #quo:

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

If you guys are to get rid of acronyms in method names, cosider the following: #onDNU:do: #gcd: #lcm: #rem: #quo: #ulp #ln #theta #r #g #b and others. Then if you get bored again there are a lot of contractions, too, especially in Number and subclasses. Like #abs, #sqrt, #sin, #cos, ... -- Se

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

On 05/05/2018 03:08 AM, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: and may buy us little at the cost of a good amount of extra typing. Auto-completion killed that argument long ago. Method names are for reading, not writing; the computer will do most of the writing for you. If you're optimizing key strokes when

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 3:08 AM, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > Richard Sargent wrote > > No. Please, really no. > > As much as I appreciate (and share) the passion for Smalltalk, you did not > AFAICT address my reasoning for not applying the no-acronym *guideline* in > this case, namely: > > >> Since

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

> > I know it. But my stupid question is why it's still called abstract while > it is implemented for concrete language? > I finally got around to running an image and extracting a screen print. Hopefully, it will attach and be visible to you. The classes of objects in the inspector show the abst

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

Richard Sargent wrote > No. Please, really no. As much as I appreciate (and share) the passion for Smalltalk, you did not AFAICT address my reasoning for not applying the no-acronym *guideline* in this case, namely: >> Since the argument IIUC is that "a >> general user won't know the domain well

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

Le 04/05/2018 à 21:13, Denis Kudriashov a écrit : 2018-05-04 21:10 GMT+03:00 Richard Sargent >: On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Denis Kudriashov mailto:dionisi...@gmail.com>> wrote: 2018-05-04 19:45 GMT+03:00 Sean P. DeNigris

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

On 5 May 2018 at 02:20, Esteban A. Maringolo wrote: > > On 04/05/2018 13:54, Richard Sargent wrote: > > >> On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 9:45 AM, Sean P. DeNigris >> > wrote: > >> > >> Ramon Leon-5 wrote > >> > And my point made; I don't even know what that means.

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

Just as TLA is a three letter acronym ... 😊 -Original Message- From: Pharo-users On Behalf Of Esteban A. Maringolo Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 2:21 PM To: Any question about pharo is welcome ; Richard Sargent Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree On 04/05/2018 13:54, Richard

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

2018-05-04 21:10 GMT+03:00 Richard Sargent < richard.sarg...@gemtalksystems.com>: > On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Denis Kudriashov > wrote: > >> >> 2018-05-04 19:45 GMT+03:00 Sean P. DeNigris : >> >>> Ramon Leon-5 wrote >>> > And my point made; I don't even know what that means. >>> >>> Ha ha,

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

On 04/05/2018 13:54, Richard Sargent wrote: >> On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 9:45 AM, Sean P. DeNigris > > wrote: >> >> Ramon Leon-5 wrote >> > And my point made; I don't even know what that means. >> >> Ha ha, I googled it and even after seeing the definition

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Denis Kudriashov wrote: > > 2018-05-04 19:45 GMT+03:00 Sean P. DeNigris : > >> Ramon Leon-5 wrote >> > And my point made; I don't even know what that means. >> >> Ha ha, I googled it and even after seeing the definition still didn't >> understand - we must be getti

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

2018-05-04 19:45 GMT+03:00 Sean P. DeNigris : > Ramon Leon-5 wrote > > And my point made; I don't even know what that means. > > Ha ha, I googled it and even after seeing the definition still didn't > understand - we must be getting old ;-) > > Regarding the use of acronyms - while I agree with yo

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

"Maybe keep the acronym and add a good method comment… " No. Please, really no. Do not use comments embedded *inside* methods to cover for naming the method badly. That is actually a counter-argument to using the acronym. Also, if one Googles an acronym, such as the recently cited TMA, one gets r

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

Ramon Leon-5 wrote > And my point made; I don't even know what that means. Ha ha, I googled it and even after seeing the definition still didn't understand - we must be getting old ;-) Regarding the use of acronyms - while I agree with you as a general principle, I wonder about this case. Since t

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

On 05/04/2018 01:29 AM, Ben Coman wrote: a TMA situation? And my point made; I don't even know what that means. -- Ramon Leon

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

On 4 May 2018 at 08:02, Ramon Leon wrote: > On 05/03/2018 12:02 PM, Guillermo Polito wrote: > >> I don't think so... any compiler book talks about ASTs using acronyms. >> Acronyms are good when acronyms are good. >> > > Boo, acronyms bad, virtually always. Jargon is awful when speaking and > awfu

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

> On 3 May 2018, at 10:56, Tudor Girba wrote: > > How about: #newAst & #cachedAst? Best suggestion yet. +1 > Cheers, > Doru > > >> On May 3, 2018, at 9:30 AM, Guillermo Polito >> wrote: >> >> method newAst ? >> >> On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:03 PM, Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras >> wrote:

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

On 05/03/2018 12:02 PM, Guillermo Polito wrote: I don't think so... any compiler book talks about ASTs using acronyms. Acronyms are good when acronyms are good. Boo, acronyms bad, virtually always. Jargon is awful when speaking and awful when Smalltalk'ing, use words, they're not in short supp

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

There is quite a difference between a compiler book using the AST acronym and a message with the #ast selector. Whoever starts reading a compiler book already knows about AST. We shouldn't assume the same about any Pharo developer. - Francisco > On 3 May 2018, at 20:02, Guillermo Polito wr

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

I don't think so... any compiler book talks about ASTs using acronyms. Acronyms are good when acronyms are good. Le jeu. 3 mai 2018 à 20:48, Esteban A. Maringolo a écrit : > +1 to avoid acronyms. > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > 2018-05-03 12:47 GMT-03:00 Francisco Garau : > >> I'd rather be also ex

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

+1 to avoid acronyms. Esteban A. Maringolo 2018-05-03 12:47 GMT-03:00 Francisco Garau : > I'd rather be also explicit in the name and avoid acronyms. > #newAbstractSyntaxTree and #cachedAbstractSyntaxTree > > - Francisco > > >

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

I'd rather be also explicit in the name and avoid acronyms. #newAbstractSyntaxTree and #cachedAbstractSyntaxTree - Francisco > On 3 May 2018, at 09:59, Guillermo Polito wrote: > > Ahh explicitness :) > >> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 10:56 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: >> How about: #newAst & #cachedAst

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

Guillermo Polito wrote > Ahh explicitness :) +1! - Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

Ahh explicitness :) On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 10:56 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: > How about: #newAst & #cachedAst? > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On May 3, 2018, at 9:30 AM, Guillermo Polito > wrote: > > > > method newAst ? > > > > On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:03 PM, Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras < > vonbecm...

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

How about: #newAst & #cachedAst? Cheers, Doru > On May 3, 2018, at 9:30 AM, Guillermo Polito > wrote: > > method newAst ? > > On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:03 PM, Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras > wrote: > a "parse tree" is not equal to an "ast"(abstract syntax tree) > but its difficult to find a

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

method newAst ? On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:03 PM, Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras < vonbecm...@gmail.com> wrote: > a "parse tree" is not equal to an "ast"(abstract syntax tree) > but its difficult to find a name for an ast that is not cached. > maybe > parsedAst > parseAst > > > > On Wed, May 2,

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

a "parse tree" is not equal to an "ast"(abstract syntax tree) but its difficult to find a name for an ast that is not cached. maybe parsedAst parseAst On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 3:28 PM, Richard Sargent < richard.sarg...@gemtalksystems.com> wrote: > On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:06 AM, Denis Kudria

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:06 AM, Denis Kudriashov wrote: > Hi. > > Maybe #parseSourceCode would be better name for #parseTree. > I've always found it good advice to avoid using a verb phrase to name something which does not entail some kind of action. #parseSourceCode realy reads like something

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

Hi. Maybe #parseSourceCode would be better name for #parseTree. 2018-05-02 16:33 GMT+03:00 Marcus Denker : > > > > On 27 Apr 2018, at 21:36, Sean P. DeNigris > wrote: > > > > Marcus Denker-4 wrote > >> I will add comments… > > > > I got confused by this again and created an issue: > > https://p

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

> On 2 May 2018, at 17:34, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > > Marcus Denker-4 wrote >> the cached #ast is for one interesting… > > Thanks! Very interesting :) > In the end I think what I really would like to have is a Smalltalk with a “first class” and persistent AST (or AST-like data structure)…

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

Marcus Denker-4 wrote > the cached #ast is for one interesting… Thanks! Very interesting :) - Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

> On 27 Apr 2018, at 21:36, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > > Marcus Denker-4 wrote >> I will add comments… > > I got confused by this again and created an issue: > https://pharo.manuscript.com/f/cases/21806/Document-Difference-between-ast-and-parseTree > > And then Peter Uhnak reminded me on Disco

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

Marcus Denker-4 wrote > I will add comments… I got confused by this again and created an issue: https://pharo.manuscript.com/f/cases/21806/Document-Difference-between-ast-and-parseTree And then Peter Uhnak reminded me on Discord about this thread. I'm happy to add the comments, but not sure I und

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

> On 01 May 2016, at 14:45, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > > Marcus Denker-4 wrote >> #ast returns a result from the cache, while #parseTree always gets a new >> one… > > Ah, okay. What is the difference? That is, how/when is the cache updated? > -> added on first call of #ast -> cleaned on image

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

marcus may be we should slowly deprecated ast into cachedParseTree or something like that. Le 30/4/16 à 22:25, Sean P. DeNigris a écrit : Why does CompiledMethod understand both? They are in the same protocol, produce the same kindOf result, and neither has a method comment! :/ (Pharo 4.0)

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

Marcus Denker-4 wrote > #ast returns a result from the cache, while #parseTree always gets a new > one… Ah, okay. What is the difference? That is, how/when is the cache updated? Marcus Denker-4 wrote > Yes, it could be better. Like always. :) - Cheers, Sean -- View this message in contex

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

#ast returns a result from the cache, while #parseTree always gets a new one… yes, it could be documented. Yes, it could be better. Like always. Marcus > On 30 Apr 2016, at 22:25, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > > Why does CompiledMethod understand both? They are in the same protocol, > prod

[Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

Why does CompiledMethod understand both? They are in the same protocol, produce the same kindOf result, and neither has a method comment! :/ (Pharo 4.0) - Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/ast-vs-parseTree-tp4893074.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users