* Peter Geoghegan (p...@heroku.com) wrote:
> On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 6:00 AM, Robert Haas wrote:
> > Another crucial difference between the multixact patch and many other
> > patches is that it wasn't a feature you could turn off. For example,
> > if BRIN has bugs, you can almost certainly avoid
On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 6:00 AM, Robert Haas wrote:
> I think that's rather facile, and I really don't see how you would
> know that from looking at those release notes. I thought multixacts
> had risk, but obviously nobody came close to predicting how bad things
> were going to be. If they had,
On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 3:12 AM, Peter Geoghegan wrote:
> On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 11:42 PM, Noah Misch wrote:
>> it came out that most people had identified fklocks as the highest-risk 9.3
>> patch. Here's an idea. Shortly after the 9.5 release notes draft, let's
>> take
>> a secret ballot to
On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 02:42:16AM -0400, Noah Misch wrote:
> > > The "revert or rework" ship had already sailed at that point. I
> >
> > True.
> >
> > > don't think we had much choice than just soldier through the bugs
> > > after the release.
> >
> > The problem is we "soldiered on" without ad
On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 11:42 PM, Noah Misch wrote:
> it came out that most people had identified fklocks as the highest-risk 9.3
> patch. Here's an idea. Shortly after the 9.5 release notes draft, let's take
> a secret ballot to identify the changes threatening the most damage through
> undisco
On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 05:33:04PM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 12:29:56AM +0300, Heikki Linnakangas wrote:
> > On 05/12/2015 12:00 AM, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > >Multi-xacts were made durable in Postgres 9.3 (released 2013-09-09) to
> > >allow primary-key-column-only locks.
Robert Haas wrote:
> On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 7:04 PM, Tom Lane wrote:
> > I think there's nobody, or at least very few people, who are getting
> > paid to find/fix bugs rather than write cool new features. This is
> > problematic. It doesn't help when key committers are overwhelmed by
> > trying
On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 4:55 AM, Andres Freund wrote:
>
> On 2015-05-11 19:04:32 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> > I think there's nobody, or at least very few people, who are getting
> > paid to find/fix bugs rather than write cool new features. This is
> > problematic. It doesn't help when key commit
On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 7:04 PM, Tom Lane wrote:
> I think there's nobody, or at least very few people, who are getting
> paid to find/fix bugs rather than write cool new features. This is
> problematic. It doesn't help when key committers are overwhelmed by
> trying to process other peoples' pa
On 05/11/2015 04:18 PM, Simon Riggs wrote:
On 11 May 2015 at 23:47, Bruce Momjian mailto:br...@momjian.us>> wrote:
On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 03:42:26PM -0700, Joshua Drake wrote:
> >The releases themselves are not the problem, but rather the volume of
> >bugs and our slowness in getti
On 05/11/2015 04:04 PM, Tom Lane wrote:
Bruce Momjian writes:
On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 03:42:26PM -0700, Joshua Drake wrote:
What I am arguing is that the release cycle is at least a big part
of the problem. We are trying to get so many new features that bugs
are increasing and quality is decr
On 2015-05-11 19:04:32 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> I think there's nobody, or at least very few people, who are getting
> paid to find/fix bugs rather than write cool new features. This is
> problematic. It doesn't help when key committers are overwhelmed by
> trying to process other peoples' patche
On 11 May 2015 at 23:47, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 03:42:26PM -0700, Joshua Drake wrote:
> > >The releases themselves are not the problem, but rather the volume of
> > >bugs and our slowness in getting additional people involved to remove
> > >data corruption bugs more quickl
Bruce Momjian writes:
> On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 03:42:26PM -0700, Joshua Drake wrote:
>> What I am arguing is that the release cycle is at least a big part
>> of the problem. We are trying to get so many new features that bugs
>> are increasing and quality is decreasing.
> Now that is an interest
On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 03:42:26PM -0700, Joshua Drake wrote:
> >The releases themselves are not the problem, but rather the volume of
> >bugs and our slowness in getting additional people involved to remove
> >data corruption bugs more quickly and systematically. Our reputation
> >for reliability
On 05/11/2015 02:15 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote:
On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 02:11:48PM -0700, Joshua Drake wrote:
Here are some options
Slow down the release cycle
The shortness of the release cycle puts a preference on adding
features versus providing a more mature outcome.
or
Increas
On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 12:29:56AM +0300, Heikki Linnakangas wrote:
> On 05/12/2015 12:00 AM, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >Multi-xacts were made durable in Postgres 9.3 (released 2013-09-09) to
> >allow primary-key-column-only locks. 1.7 years later, we are still
> >dealing with bugs related to this fe
On 05/12/2015 12:00 AM, Bruce Momjian wrote:
Multi-xacts were made durable in Postgres 9.3 (released 2013-09-09) to
allow primary-key-column-only locks. 1.7 years later, we are still
dealing with bugs related to this feature. Obviously, something is
wrong.
There were many 9.3 minor releases co
On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 02:11:48PM -0700, Joshua Drake wrote:
>
> On 05/11/2015 02:00 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> >I think we now know that our inaction didn't serve us well. The
> >question is how can we identify chronic problems and get resources
> >involved sooner. I feel we have been "asle
On 05/11/2015 02:00 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote:
I think we now know that our inaction didn't serve us well. The
question is how can we identify chronic problems and get resources
involved sooner. I feel we have been "asleep at the wheel" to some
extent on this.
Here are some options
Slow down
Multi-xacts were made durable in Postgres 9.3 (released 2013-09-09) to
allow primary-key-column-only locks. 1.7 years later, we are still
dealing with bugs related to this feature. Obviously, something is
wrong.
There were many 9.3 minor releases containing multi-xacts fixes, and
these fixes hav
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