Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

> On Jan 17, 2020, at 4:28 PM, Ariadne Conill wrote: > > Hello, > > January 17, 2020 5:21 PM, "Tomas Vondra" > wrote: > > Thank you very much for coming together and finding a solution to this bug! > > Ariadne Let’s leave it at “issue” :)

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

Hello, January 17, 2020 5:21 PM, "Tomas Vondra" wrote: > On Wed, Jan 08, 2020 at 05:24:05PM +1030, Andrew Dunstan wrote: > >> On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 7:08 AM Pavel Stehule wrote: >>> Hi >>> >>> po 6. 1. 2020 v 22:34 odesílatel Andrew Dunstan >>> napsal: >> >> Updated version including docco

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On Wed, Jan 08, 2020 at 05:24:05PM +1030, Andrew Dunstan wrote: On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 7:08 AM Pavel Stehule wrote: Hi po 6. 1. 2020 v 22:34 odesílatel Andrew Dunstan napsal: Updated version including docco and better error message. cheers andrew I think so my objections are solved.

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 7:08 AM Pavel Stehule wrote: > > Hi > > po 6. 1. 2020 v 22:34 odesílatel Andrew Dunstan > napsal: >> >> >> Updated version including docco and better error message. >> >> cheers >> >> andrew > > > I think so my objections are solved. I have small objection > > + errdetail(

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

Hi po 6. 1. 2020 v 22:34 odesílatel Andrew Dunstan < andrew.duns...@2ndquadrant.com> napsal: > On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 2:15 PM Andrew Dunstan > wrote: > > > > > > On 11/27/19 9:35 PM, Michael Paquier wrote: > > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 09:45:59PM +0100, Pavel Stehule wrote: > > >> Maybe ERRCODE

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 2:15 PM Andrew Dunstan wrote: > > > On 11/27/19 9:35 PM, Michael Paquier wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 09:45:59PM +0100, Pavel Stehule wrote: > >> Maybe ERRCODE_NULL_VALUE_NOT_ALLOWED, and "NULL is not allowed", > >> errdetail - a exception due setting "null_value_trea

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On 11/27/19 9:35 PM, Michael Paquier wrote: > On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 09:45:59PM +0100, Pavel Stehule wrote: >> Maybe ERRCODE_NULL_VALUE_NOT_ALLOWED, and "NULL is not allowed", >> errdetail - a exception due setting "null_value_treatment" => >> raise_exception >> and maybe some errhint - "Maybe y

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 09:45:59PM +0100, Pavel Stehule wrote: > Maybe ERRCODE_NULL_VALUE_NOT_ALLOWED, and "NULL is not allowed", > errdetail - a exception due setting "null_value_treatment" => > raise_exception > and maybe some errhint - "Maybe you would to use Jsonb NULL - "null"::jsonb" > > I d

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

pá 15. 11. 2019 v 21:01 odesílatel Andrew Dunstan < andrew.duns...@2ndquadrant.com> napsal: > > On 11/15/19 2:14 PM, Pavel Stehule wrote: > > Hi > > > > > > > > For release 13+, I have given some more thought to what should be > > done. > > I think the bar for altering the behaviour of

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On 11/15/19 2:14 PM, Pavel Stehule wrote: > Hi > > > > For release 13+, I have given some more thought to what should be > done. > I think the bar for altering the behaviour of a function should be > rather higher than we have in the present case, and the longer the > function

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

Hi > For release 13+, I have given some more thought to what should be done. > I think the bar for altering the behaviour of a function should be > rather higher than we have in the present case, and the longer the > function has been sanctioned by time the higher the bar should be. > However, I

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On Mon, Oct 28, 2019, at 08:52, Andrew Dunstan wrote: > > For release 13+, I have given some more thought to what should be done. > I think the bar for altering the behaviour of a function should be > rather higher than we have in the present case, and the longer the > function has been sanctio

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On 10/21/19 9:28 AM, Andrew Dunstan wrote: > On 10/21/19 2:07 AM, Tomas Vondra wrote: >> On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 06:51:05PM -0400, Andrew Dunstan wrote: I think the general premise of this thread is that the application developer does not realize that may be necessary, because it's a bit

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

Steven Pousty wrote: > On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 4:31 PM raf wrote: > > > Steven Pousty wrote: > > > > > I would think though that raising an exception is better than a > > > default behavior which deletes data. > > > > I can't help but feel the need to make the point that > > the function is not

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On 10/21/19 12:50 PM, Tomas Vondra wrote: On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 08:06:46AM -0700, Adrian Klaver wrote: On 10/20/19 11:07 PM, Tomas Vondra wrote: On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 06:51:05PM -0400, Andrew Dunstan wrote: True. And AFAIK catching exceptions is not really possible in some code, e.g. in

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 08:06:46AM -0700, Adrian Klaver wrote: On 10/20/19 11:07 PM, Tomas Vondra wrote: On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 06:51:05PM -0400, Andrew Dunstan wrote: True. And AFAIK catching exceptions is not really possible in some code, e.g. in stored procedures (because we can't do sub

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 4:31 PM raf wrote: > Steven Pousty wrote: > > > I would think though that raising an exception is better than a > > default behavior which deletes data. > > I can't help but feel the need to make the point that > the function is not deleting anything. It is just > returnin

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 3:51 PM Andrew Dunstan < andrew.duns...@2ndquadrant.com> wrote: > I'm not arguing against the idea of improving the situation. But I am > arguing against a minimal fix that will not provide much of value to a > careful app developer. i.e. I want to do more to support app de

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On 10/20/19 11:07 PM, Tomas Vondra wrote: On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 06:51:05PM -0400, Andrew Dunstan wrote: True. And AFAIK catching exceptions is not really possible in some code, e.g. in stored procedures (because we can't do subtransactions, so no exception blocks). Can you explain the ab

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On 10/21/19 2:07 AM, Tomas Vondra wrote: > On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 06:51:05PM -0400, Andrew Dunstan wrote: >> >>> I think the general premise of this thread is that the application >>> developer does not realize that may be necessary, because it's a bit >>> surprising behavior, particularly when

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 06:51:05PM -0400, Andrew Dunstan wrote: On 10/20/19 4:18 PM, Tomas Vondra wrote: On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 03:48:05PM -0400, Andrew Dunstan wrote: On 10/20/19 1:14 PM, David G. Johnston wrote: On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 5:31 AM Andrew Dunstan mailto:andrew.duns...@2ndquadr

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

Steven Pousty wrote: > I would think though that raising an exception is better than a > default behavior which deletes data. I can't help but feel the need to make the point that the function is not deleting anything. It is just returning null. The deletion of data is being performed by an updat

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On 10/20/19 4:18 PM, Tomas Vondra wrote: > On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 03:48:05PM -0400, Andrew Dunstan wrote: >> >> On 10/20/19 1:14 PM, David G. Johnston wrote: >>> On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 5:31 AM Andrew Dunstan >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>>     And yet another is t

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

> > > You're not following because you don't want to follow. > > I think that anyone with a "commit bit" on this project that tolerates that sentence is a much better human being than I ever will be. I may be the dumbest person on this list by many measures - but isn't there standard options that

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

I would think though that raising an exception is better than a default behavior which deletes data. As an app dev I am quite used to all sorts of "APIs" throwing exceptions and have learned to deal with them. This is my way of saying that raising an exception is an improvement over the current si

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 03:48:05PM -0400, Andrew Dunstan wrote: On 10/20/19 1:14 PM, David G. Johnston wrote: On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 5:31 AM Andrew Dunstan mailto:andrew.duns...@2ndquadrant.com>> wrote: And yet another is to raise an exception, which is easy to write but really punts

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On 10/20/19 1:14 PM, David G. Johnston wrote: > On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 5:31 AM Andrew Dunstan > > wrote: > > And yet another is to > raise an exception, which is easy to write but really punts the issue > back to the application programmer who

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 5:31 AM Andrew Dunstan < andrew.duns...@2ndquadrant.com> wrote: > And yet another is to > raise an exception, which is easy to write but really punts the issue > back to the application programmer who will have to decide how to ensure > they never pass in a NULL parameter.

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 at 08:32, Andrew Dunstan wrote: > > Understood. I think the real question here is what it should do instead > when the value is NULL. Your behaviour above is one suggestion, which I > personally find intuitive. Another has been to remove the associated > key. Another is to ret

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On 10/20/19 4:39 AM, Floris Van Nee wrote: > > FWIW I've been bitten by this 'feature' more than once as well, > accidentally erasing a column. Now I usually write js = jsonb_set(js, > coalesce(new_column, 'null'::jsonb)) to prevent erasing the whole > column, and instead setting the value to a j

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

Hello, On Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 3:27 PM Tomas Vondra wrote: > On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 12:47:39PM -0400, Andrew Dunstan wrote: > > > >On 10/19/19 12:32 PM, David G. Johnston wrote: > >> On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 9:19 AM Tomas Vondra > >> mailto:tomas.von...@2ndquadrant.com>> > >> wrote: > >> > >>

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 12:47:39PM -0400, Andrew Dunstan wrote: On 10/19/19 12:32 PM, David G. Johnston wrote: On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 9:19 AM Tomas Vondra mailto:tomas.von...@2ndquadrant.com>> wrote: > >We invented jsonb_set() (credit to Dmitry Dolgov). And we've had it >since 9.5

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On 10/19/19 12:32 PM, David G. Johnston wrote: > On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 9:19 AM Tomas Vondra > mailto:tomas.von...@2ndquadrant.com>> > wrote: > > > > >We invented jsonb_set() (credit to Dmitry Dolgov). And we've had it > >since 9.5. That's five releases ago.  So it's a bit late to be

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 9:19 AM Tomas Vondra wrote: > > > >We invented jsonb_set() (credit to Dmitry Dolgov). And we've had it > >since 9.5. That's five releases ago. So it's a bit late to be coming to > >us telling us it's not safe (according to your preconceptions of what it > >should be doing

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On 10/19/19 12:18 PM, Tomas Vondra wrote: > On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 11:26:50AM -0400, Andrew Dunstan wrote: > > Not sure, but that seems rather confusing to me, because it's mixing SQL > NULL and JSON null, i.e. it's not clear to me why > >    jsonb_set(..., "...", NULL) > > should do the same th

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 11:26:50AM -0400, Andrew Dunstan wrote: ... The hyperbole here is misplaced. There is a difference between a bug and a POLA violation. This might be the latter, but it isn't the former. So please tone it down a bit. It's not the function that's unsafe, but the ill-inform

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On 10/18/19 3:10 PM, Mark Felder wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2019, at 12:37, Ariadne Conill wrote: >> Hello, >> >> I am one of the primary maintainers of Pleroma, a federated social >> networking application written in Elixir, which uses PostgreSQL in >> ways that may be considered outside the typ

Re: jsonb_set() strictness considered harmful to data

On Fri, Oct 18, 2019, at 12:37, Ariadne Conill wrote: > Hello, > > I am one of the primary maintainers of Pleroma, a federated social > networking application written in Elixir, which uses PostgreSQL in > ways that may be considered outside the typical usage scenarios for > PostgreSQL. > > Nam