Re: Better Upgrades

2018-03-05 Thread David Fetter
On Mon, Mar 05, 2018 at 11:18:20AM +0100, Daniel Gustafsson wrote: > > On 02 Mar 2018, at 12:59, Greg Stark wrote: > > > My feeling is that worrying about in-place binary upgrades today > > is wasted effort. Already the window for installations where this > > is useful is narrow -- you have to be

Re: Better Upgrades

2018-03-05 Thread Daniel Gustafsson
> On 02 Mar 2018, at 01:03, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 01:51:09PM +0100, Daniel Gustafsson wrote: >>> On 06 Feb 2018, at 01:09, David Fetter wrote: >> >>> - pg_upgrade is very much a blocker for on-disk format changes. >> >> I wouldn’t call it a blocker, but pg_upgrade ac

Re: Better Upgrades

2018-03-05 Thread Daniel Gustafsson
> On 02 Mar 2018, at 12:59, Greg Stark wrote: > My feeling is that worrying about in-place binary upgrades today is > wasted effort. Already the window for installations where this is > useful is narrow -- you have to be big enough that the resources for > deploying a second instance is significa

Re: Better Upgrades

2018-03-02 Thread Greg Stark
On 6 February 2018 at 03:13, Craig Ringer wrote: > On 6 February 2018 at 09:51, Joshua D. Drake wrote: >> >> On 02/05/2018 04:09 PM, David Fetter wrote: >> >>> Does this seem worth coding up in its current form? >> >> No. The pg_upgrade utility is awesome and I have commended Bruce on >> multiple

Re: Better Upgrades

2018-03-01 Thread Bruce Momjian
On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 01:51:09PM +0100, Daniel Gustafsson wrote: > > On 06 Feb 2018, at 01:09, David Fetter wrote: > > > - pg_upgrade is very much a blocker for on-disk format changes. > > I wouldn’t call it a blocker, but pg_upgrade across an on-disk format change > would be a very different

Re: Better Upgrades

2018-02-06 Thread Daniel Gustafsson
> On 06 Feb 2018, at 01:09, David Fetter wrote: > - pg_upgrade is very much a blocker for on-disk format changes. I wouldn’t call it a blocker, but pg_upgrade across an on-disk format change would be a very different experience from what we have today since it would need to read and rewrite data

Sv: Better Upgrades

2018-02-06 Thread Andreas Joseph Krogh
På tirsdag 06. februar 2018 kl. 01:09:18, skrev David Fetter mailto:da...@fetter.org>>: Folks, While chatting with Bruce about how to make something better than pg_upgrade, we (and by "we," I mean mostly Bruce) came up with the following. What needs improvement: - pg_upgrade forces a down t

Re: Better Upgrades

2018-02-05 Thread Craig Ringer
On 6 February 2018 at 09:51, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On 02/05/2018 04:09 PM, David Fetter wrote: > >> Does this seem worth coding up in its current form? >> > > No. The pg_upgrade utility is awesome and I have commended Bruce on > multiple occasions about his work with it. That being said, the >

Re: Better Upgrades

2018-02-05 Thread Joshua D. Drake
On 02/05/2018 04:09 PM, David Fetter wrote: Does this seem worth coding up in its current form? No. The pg_upgrade utility is awesome and I have commended Bruce on multiple occasions about his work with it. That being said, the "solution" is to support in-place upgrades and our work should be

Re: Better Upgrades

2018-02-05 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On 2/5/18 19:09, David Fetter wrote: > - Add a new script--possibly Perl or Bash, which would: > - Initdb a new cluster with the new version of PostgreSQL and a > different port. This will need integration with the packaging system. You'll want to carry over settings from the old instan

Re: Better Upgrades

2018-02-05 Thread Craig Ringer
On 6 February 2018 at 08:09, David Fetter wrote: > Folks, > > While chatting with Bruce about how to make something better than > pg_upgrade, we (and by "we," I mean mostly Bruce) came up with the > following. > > What needs improvement: > > - pg_upgrade forces a down time event, no matter how cl

Re: Better Upgrades

2018-02-05 Thread David G. Johnston
On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 5:09 PM, David Fetter wrote: > > The proposal has blockers: > > - We don't actually have logical decoding for DDL, although I'm given > to understand that Álvaro Herrera has done some yeoman follow-up > work on Dimitri Fontaine's PoC patches. > - We don't have logical d

Better Upgrades

2018-02-05 Thread David Fetter
Folks, While chatting with Bruce about how to make something better than pg_upgrade, we (and by "we," I mean mostly Bruce) came up with the following. What needs improvement: - pg_upgrade forces a down time event, no matter how cleverly it's done. - pg_upgrade is very much a blocker for on-disk