Re: [PERFORM] [GENERAL] Arguments Pro/Contra Software Raid

2006-05-11 Thread Jim C. Nasby
On Tue, May 09, 2006 at 12:10:32PM +0200, Jean-Yves F. Barbier wrote: > > I myself can't see much reason to spend $500 on high end controller > > cards for a simple Raid 1. > > Naa, you can find ATA &| SATA ctrlrs for about EUR30 ! And you're likely getting what you paid for: crap. Such a contro

Re: [PERFORM] [GENERAL] Arguments Pro/Contra Software Raid

2006-05-10 Thread Scott Marlowe
On Wed, 2006-05-10 at 09:51, Douglas McNaught wrote: > Scott Marlowe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > On Tue, 2006-05-09 at 20:02, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > >> You do if the controller thinks the data is already on the drives and > >> removes it from its cache. > > > > Bruce, re-read what I wrote

Re: [PERFORM] [GENERAL] Arguments Pro/Contra Software Raid

2006-05-10 Thread Markus Schaber
Hi, Bruce, Markus Schaber wrote: >>>It does not find as much liers as the script above, but it is less >>Why does it find fewer liers? > > It won't find liers that have a small "lie-queue-length" so their > internal buffers get full so they have to block. After a small burst at > start which usu

Re: [PERFORM] [GENERAL] Arguments Pro/Contra Software Raid

2006-05-10 Thread Douglas McNaught
Scott Marlowe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Tue, 2006-05-09 at 20:02, Bruce Momjian wrote: >> You do if the controller thinks the data is already on the drives and >> removes it from its cache. > > Bruce, re-read what I wrote. The escalades tell the drives to TURN OFF > THEIR OWN CACHE. Some

Re: [PERFORM] [GENERAL] Arguments Pro/Contra Software Raid

2006-05-10 Thread Scott Marlowe
On Tue, 2006-05-09 at 20:02, Bruce Momjian wrote: > Scott Marlowe wrote: > > Actually, in the case of the Escalades at least, the answer is yes. > > Last year (maybe a bit more) someone was testing an IDE escalade > > controller with drives that were known to lie, and it passed the power > > plug

Re: [PERFORM] [GENERAL] Arguments Pro/Contra Software Raid

2006-05-10 Thread Markus Schaber
Hi, Bruce, Bruce Momjian wrote: >>It does not find as much liers as the script above, but it is less > > Why does it find fewer liers? It won't find liers that have a small "lie-queue-length" so their internal buffers get full so they have to block. After a small burst at start which usually h

Re: [PERFORM] [GENERAL] Arguments Pro/Contra Software Raid

2006-05-10 Thread Bruce Momjian
Markus Schaber wrote: > Hi, Scott & all, > > Scott Lamb wrote: > > > I don't know the answer to this question, but have you seen this tool? > > > > http://brad.livejournal.com/2116715.html > > We had a simpler tool inhouse, which wrote a file byte-for-byte, and > called fsync() after every

Re: [PERFORM] [GENERAL] Arguments Pro/Contra Software Raid

2006-05-10 Thread Markus Schaber
Hi, Scott & all, Scott Lamb wrote: > I don't know the answer to this question, but have you seen this tool? > > http://brad.livejournal.com/2116715.html We had a simpler tool inhouse, which wrote a file byte-for-byte, and called fsync() after every byte. If the number of fsyncs/min is high

Re: [PERFORM] [GENERAL] Arguments Pro/Contra Software Raid

2006-05-09 Thread PFC
2b- LARGE UPS because HDs are the components that have the higher power consomption (a 700VA UPS gives me about 10-12 minutes on a machine with a XP2200+, 1GB RAM and a 40GB HD, however this fall to.. less than 25 secondes with seven HDs ! all ATA), I got my hands on a (free)

Re: [PERFORM] [GENERAL] Arguments Pro/Contra Software Raid

2006-05-09 Thread Scott Lamb
On May 9, 2006, at 11:26 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: Of course not, but which drives lie about sync that are SATA? Or more specifically SATA-II? I don't know the answer to this question, but have you seen this tool? http://brad.livejournal.com/2116715.html It attempts to experimentally de

Re: [PERFORM] [GENERAL] Arguments Pro/Contra Software Raid

2006-05-09 Thread Bruce Momjian
Scott Marlowe wrote: > Actually, in the case of the Escalades at least, the answer is yes. > Last year (maybe a bit more) someone was testing an IDE escalade > controller with drives that were known to lie, and it passed the power > plug pull test repeatedly. Apparently, the escalades tell the dr

Re: [PERFORM] [GENERAL] Arguments Pro/Contra Software Raid

2006-05-09 Thread Scott Marlowe
On Tue, 2006-05-09 at 12:52, Steve Atkins wrote: > On May 9, 2006, at 8:51 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > ("Using SATA drives is always a bit of risk, as some drives are lying > about whether they are caching or not.") > > >> Don't buy those drives. That's unrelated to whether you use hardware

Re: [PERFORM] [GENERAL] Arguments Pro/Contra Software Raid

2006-05-09 Thread Joshua D. Drake
Douglas McNaught wrote: Vivek Khera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: On May 9, 2006, at 11:51 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: And dollar for dollar, SCSI will NOT be faster nor have the hard drive capacity that you will get with SATA. Does this hold true still under heavy concurrent-write loads? I'm

Re: [PERFORM] [GENERAL] Arguments Pro/Contra Software Raid

2006-05-09 Thread Steve Atkins
On May 9, 2006, at 11:26 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: You're not suggesting that a hardware RAID controller will protect you against drives that lie about sync, are you? Of course not, but which drives lie about sync that are SATA? Or more specifically SATA-II? SATA-II, none that I'm awar

Re: [PERFORM] [GENERAL] Arguments Pro/Contra Software Raid

2006-05-09 Thread Joshua D. Drake
You're not suggesting that a hardware RAID controller will protect you against drives that lie about sync, are you? Of course not, but which drives lie about sync that are SATA? Or more specifically SATA-II? Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake -- === The PostgreSQL Company: Command P