On 10/12/05, chromatic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-10-12 at 21:50 +0200, Yuval Kogman wrote:
>
> > This has even more implications with closed classes to which you
> > don't have source level access, and if this can happen it will
> > happen - i'm pretty sure that some commercial data
All -
I'm partly to blame for this thread because I put the idea into
Steve's head that class methods being inheritable may be dogma and not
a useful thing. Mea culpa.
That said, I want to put forward a possible reason why you would
want class methods to be inheritable - to provide pure f
> I think this is an opportune time for me to express that I think the
> ability to close-source a module is important. I love open source,
> and I couldn't imagine writing anything by myself that I wouldn't
> share. But in order for Perl to be taken seriously as a commercial
> client-side langua
On 10/13/05, John Macdonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just because you can't make locking perfect does not mean it
> has no value.
Acme::Bleach it is!
> == CONCLUSION / WRAP-UP
>
> So, now that I have sufficiently bored you all to tears, I will do a
> quick re-cap of the main question, and the possible solutions.
>
> Should metaclasses be "inherited" along normal class lines?
>
> Meaning that if Foo uses a custom metaclass, and Bar isa Foo, then
In the discussions I've had with Steve, one thing that always
nagged me - what's the difference between a "class" and a "role"? I
couldn't fix it in my head why there were two separate concepts.
Steve, yesterday, mentioned to me that in the metamodel that he's got
so far, Class does Role. This
On 10/14/05, Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> : I need to stress that I'm not suggesting that the keyword "role"
> : be removed. It won't be the first time we have keywords that mean the
> : same thing, just with a little sugar added. It definitely improves
> : maintainability to have se
Some other features:
1) You can write your program in any combination of programming styles
and languages, as you see fit. Thus, you can use your OO library
written in Ruby, that really fast C routine, and your Perl code, all
in one place.
2) There are a large number of operators that support list
[snip]
Let me rephrase to see if I understand you - you like the fact that
boxed types + roles applied to those types + compile-time type
checking/inference allows you to tag a piece of information (int,
char, string, obj, whatever) with arbitrary metadata. Add that to the
fact that you can lexica
On 10/18/05, Juerd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Nicholas Clark skribis 2005-10-18 22:41 (+0100):
> > my $foo = DBI(1.38)->new();
> > my $bar = DBI(1.40)->new();
>
> I like this syntax, and have a somewhat relevant question: can a module
> be aliased entirely, including all its subclasses/-roles
On 10/18/05, Uri Guttman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>>>> "SL" == Stevan Little <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> SL> On Oct 18, 2005, at 1:45 PM, Luke Palmer wrote:
>
> >> On 10/18/05, Rob Kinyon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
&
> Another school of thought would be that "Dog" alone would be
> considered ambiguious and so we would just alias far enough to be
> clear, like this:
>
>Dog => Ambiguity Error!
>Dog-1.2.1 => Dog-1.2.1-cpan:JRANDOM
>Dog-0.0.2 => Dog-0.0.2-cpan:LWALL
>
> Of course, this means that
> > Text-substitution macros would have to be handled in an earlier pass,
>
> I still don't see evidence for this. Or maybe I do, but I don't see
> any reason that the preprocessing pass must finish before the parsing
> begins.
Mixing C and Perl ...
my $foo;
BEGIN { $foo = '}'; }
#define OPEN {
On 10/19/05, Darren Duncan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
> An example of when this situation can arise is if person X implements
> a simplified XML DOM implementation using 2 classes, Document and
> Node, that work together, where one of those classes (Document) can
> create objects of the othe
On 10/19/05, Nate Wiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My concern is that we're solving problems that don't really exist in
> real-world Perl usage. Are there really two competing authors of DBI?
> Or, for any product, do two people really try to market "SuperWidget"?
> No, one person just changes to
On 10/20/05, Nate Wiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Larry Wall wrote:
> > I think there can be some kind of community metainformation that sets
> > defaults appropriately. And if not, the site/project can certainly
> > establish defaults. On the other hand, a lot of projects do simply
> > want t
On 10/20/05, Nate Wiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And, it shares alot with other languages people know and use.
That's more because languages are incestuous (like Perl) instead of
languages independently arriving at the same conclusions. Yes, the
"while" loop is going to look the same everywher
> Unfortunately many people WILL have to deal with such changes, and
> the question should be: Does a given change offer a clear improvement?
> As you said, if we're helping %1 of people %1 of the time, are the
> other 99% really going to change all their scripts? No chance.
You again misread what
On 10/20/05, Steve Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have some serious concerns about using Latin-1 sigils within Perl 6 and
> the ASCII multi-character aliases. Am I not understanding something that
> I should see this as an advantage?
I had the same concern a few months back. I've come to s
> Surely you aren't suggesting that these non-English speakers do not have
> access to the ASCII (or EBCDIC) character sets for their editors, are you?
Surely you aren't suggesting that your editor doesn't have access to
the Latin-1 charset, are you? Let's take a look at popular editors:
vi - chec
On 10/21/05, Steve Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2005 at 02:37:09PM +0200, Juerd wrote:
> > Steve Peters skribis 2005-10-21 6:07 (-0500):
> > > Older versions of Eclipse are not able to enter these characters. That's
> > > where the copy and paste comes in.
> >
> > That's wh
I'd like to propose a new metamodel that (I hope) will meet all the
specs @Larry has stated thus far. This metamodel is in two parts.
Part the first:
There is a single object given to P6 called Factory. (No, Steve, there
are no turtles.) Factory has two behaviors, no state, and no classes.
The beh
> > So, you are proposing that the Perl of the Unicode era be limited to
> > ASCII because a 15 year old editor cannot handle the charset? That's
> > like suggesting that operating systems should all be bootable from a
> > single floppy because not everyone has access to a CD drive.
>
> I saying th
Feh - I really need to get on gmail's case for providing a keystroke
for "Reply to All".
Rob
-- Forwarded message --
From: Nate Wiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Oct 21, 2005 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: $1 change issues [was Re: syntax for accessing multiple
versions
Does TYE's Algorithm::Loops's mapcar() provide the basic functionality
of what you're looking for?
Rob
On 10/21/05, Mark Reed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is there a CPAN module which provides the functionality of ¥/zip() for
> Perl5? I don't see anything obvious in the Bundle::Perl6 stuff. Not
On 10/23/05, Autrijus Tang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dan Kogai wrote:
> > To make the matter worse, there are not just one "yen sign" in Unicode.
> > Take a look at this.
> >
> > ¥ U+00A5 YEN SIGN
> > ￥ U+FFE5 FULLWIDTH YEN SIGN
> >
> > Tough they look and groks the same to human, computers han
On 10/24/05, John Macdonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2005 at 02:47:58PM +0100, Alberto Manuel Brandão Simões wrote:
> > Another is because it will take too long to port all CPAN modules to
> > Perl 6 (for this I suggest a Porters force-task to interact with current
> > CPAN modu
On 10/24/05, Nate Wiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Joshua Gatcomb wrote:
> > On 10/24/05, Juerd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> Feel free to add your own, or fears you heard about!
> >
> > FEAR: The Perl6 process is driving away too many good developers
> >
> > FEAR: Perl6 will not be as por
On 10/25/05, Juerd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I think it'd be great if +=, ~=, +&=, ++, etc, could all assume $_ on
> their LHS when there is no obvious operand.
>
> This clashes with &prefix:<=>, but that's nothing a space cannot fix.
> Same for lvalue subs called x or xx (or X or XX).
>
> m
> Basically, ¢T is a close analog of &t, which is the variableish form
> for "sub t". When used in a declaration, both of them introduce a
> bare name as an alias into whatever scope the declaration is inserting
> symbols, albeit with different syntactic slots. So just as
>
> my &t := { ... }
On 10/25/05, Luke Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 10/24/05, H.Merijn Brand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:49:51 -0400, Joshua Gatcomb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > FEAR: Perl6 internals will be just as inaccessable as p5
> >
> > paradox. Many people don't find p
> And in fact, its very existence defies another implicit principle of
> mine, that is, the "principle of partial definition": Defining a new
> type or instance can only break a previously typechecking program by
> making it ambiguous. The idea behind that is that at some time you
> may realize t
> That's just self.meta.add_method($label, $method) by my lights.
> A .meta already implies/ignores the .class coercion. If we are to
> support prototype-based programming $x.meta *must not care* whether
> it has been given a class or an instance or something in between.
> What I am calling a "cla
On 10/26/05, Stevan Little <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Oct 26, 2005, at 12:05 PM, Larry Wall wrote:
> > Of course, there are other words that are somewhat synonymous with
> > "class", Unfortunately "sort" is already hosed. Maybe "kind".
>
> Actually "kind" is used in the "Core Calculus for M
> So maybe we can define our terms like this:
>
> type: a completely generic metaterm for any of the following,
> and then some.
>
> class: a mutable interface object that manages instances in the
> "classical" way, with covariant derivational properties.
>
> role: an immutable
> : 3) Aren't classes mutable and roles immutable by default only? Or has
> : this changed?
>
> Of course. To change the default for a role, call it a class, and
> to change the default for a class, call it a role. :-)
Does this mean that roles are the recommended way to create immutable
classes
On 10/26/05, chromatic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-10-26 at 20:29 -0400, Rob Kinyon wrote:
>
> > I would prefer to use roles as they're closed by default, leaving
> > "class" to be my powertool, if I need the power.
>
> I don't unde
On 10/26/05, Luke Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
> Okay, an open class means you can add methods to it, right? So, let's
> say you have this class:
>
> class Foo {
> method foo() {...}
> method bar() {...}
> }
>
> And this code:
>
> my Foo $x = Foo.new;
>
On 10/26/05, Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2005 at 07:35:05PM -0700, chromatic wrote:
> : On Wed, 2005-10-26 at 21:58 -0400, Rob Kinyon wrote:
> :
> : > Plus, the argument is a straw man. Instead of:
> : >
> : > class Some::Class is a
On 10/27/05, TSa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> HaloO,
>
> Larry Wall wrote:
>
> > : Yes, and dispatch as a runtime keyed access into a code multitude.
> > : The covariant part of the method's sig! The code equivalent to keyed
> > : data access into hashes.
> >
> > Um, yeah. Won't play in Peoria, th
On 10/27/05, Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2005 at 05:37:13AM -0400, Rob Kinyon wrote:
> : Will I be able to do something like:
> :
> : package Foo;
>
> Hmm, you just started in Perl 5 mode.
>
> : $*VERSION = 1.3.2;
>
> Perl 5 would
> But IMHO the reduction in typing for this relatively minor issue is not
> really worth the surprise to newbies at seeing operandless operators.
AMEN!
Rob
On 10/28/05, Jonathan Scott Duff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Roles can hold instance data that will be composed into a class. What
> I'm saying is that if you have two roles:
>
> role X { has $:foo; }
> role Y { has $:foo; }
>
> And a class that's composed of them:
>
> class Xy does X does Y { ..
On 10/28/05, Luke Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
> It was the fact that at each stage of the game, we summarized the
> defaults and requirements for each role, ignoring the internal makeup
> (i.e., what roles were composed into it, etc.).
So, in theory, one should be able to ask any give
> 1. choose one of a set of available methods to call its own.
> 2. create a version of its own.
> 3. pass the buck.
#1 and #2 are identical. Stevan and I have always viewed #1 as a
special case of #2. If you want to choose a method to call, then
create a method of your own and have it wrap the on
On 11/1/05, Jonathan Lang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rob Kinyon wrote:
> > > 1. choose one of a set of available methods to call its own.
> > > 2. create a version of its own.
> > > 3. pass the buck.
> >
> > #1 and #2 are identical. Stevan and I h
On 11/2/05, Michele Dondi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005, John Williams wrote:
>
> > But IMHO the reduction in typing for this relatively minor issue is not
> > really worth the surprise to newbies at seeing operandless operators.
>
> I don't buy that argument as newbies are alrea
On 11/3/05, Michele Dondi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Nov 2005, Ruud H.G. van Tol wrote:
>
> >> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.language/17556
> >
> > I understand that Perl6 allows blocks with changed/enhanced syntax, so
> > it is or will become possible (to add it) as if it w
> On Nov 2, 2005, at 9:02 PM, Jonathan Lang wrote:
> > Let's say you have this:
> >
> > role A {method foo() { code1; } }
> > role B {method foo() { code2; } }
> > role C does A does B {
> > method foo() { A::foo(); }
> > method bar() { B::foo(); }
> > }
> >
> > Should the following
> $ perl -le '$u=1; ($y=$u*=5)++; print $y'
> 6
It's interesting to note that this parse (due to precedence) as
($y=($u*=5))++, not (($y=$u)*=5)++
This is important for overloaded operators (which are going to become
much easier to do in Perl6). The importance arises if Perl6 allows
assignment to
On 11/4/05, Michele Dondi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm still convinced my remark _partly_ applies in the sense that the
> overall impression is that a vast majority of most common needs is
> addressed by a *subset* of the current features and trying to stuff all
> them in has brought in quite a
On 11/4/05, Austin Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello!
>
> If roles are interfaces, do we want any class that provides an interface
> consistent with a role to implicitly do the role? That is, if a class
> fulfills all of the interface requirements of a role without actually
> saying it does
> And when your user does want to, essentially say "Nah, you screwed up
> designing
> that object protocol, children shouldn't've been protected." it's the work of
> a
> moment to write:
>
>thing.send(:children, *args)
I told you I'm still learning. I hadn't gotten to that part of the Pickax
On 11/7/05, Michele Dondi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Nov 2005, Rob Kinyon wrote:
>
> > So, for a bit of extra complexity, I get peace of mind for myself and my
> > users.
>
> The point being, and I'm stressing it once again but no more than once,
&g
> Okay, I won't shout (not even on PerlMonks :-), but named parameters
> default to optional, so you'd have to write that as
>
> sub convert (:$from!, :$to!, :$thing!) { ... }
>
> in the current scheme of things.
Either way, the point is still that the benefits FAR outweigh any
additional comp
On 11/8/05, chromatic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-11-04 at 13:15 -0500, Austin Frank wrote:
>
> > If roles are interfaces, do we want any class that provides an interface
> > consistent with a role to implicitly do the role? That is, if a class
> > fulfills all of the interface requi
> But if we have a mandatory type inferencer underneath that is merely
> ignored when it's inconvenient, then we could probably automatically
> delay evaluation of the code. . . .
I'm not so certain that ignoring the mandatory type inferencer is a
good idea, even when it's inconvenient. I don'
On 11/11/05, Joe Gottman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>The various synopses contain many mentions of Iterators. These are used,
> for instance, to implement lazy lists so the expression 1..1_000_000 does
> not have to allocate a million element array. But as far as I can tell the
> term is neve
On 10/13/05, Dave Whipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> (ref: http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/docs/notes/theory.pod)
>
> >theory Ring{::R} {
> >multi infix:<+> (R, R --> R) {...}
> >multi prefix:<-> (R --> R){...}
> >multi infix:<-> (R $x, R $y --> R) { $x + (-
On 11/20/05, Daniel Brockman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Reversing an array, changing it, and then rereversing it ---
> I think that kind of pattern is common.
I would think that reversing a string, modifying it, then reversing it
back is more common. Does modifying the reversal of a string modif
On 11/20/05, Ingo Blechschmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
> Yep. Also note that "for" is not a special magical construct in Perl 6,
> it's a simple subroutine (&statement_control:, with the signature
> ([EMAIL PROTECTED], Code *&code)). (Of course, it'll usually be optimized.)
>
> Example:
>
On 11/21/05, TSa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> HaloO,
>
> Luke Palmer wrote:
> > On 11/21/05, Ingo Blechschmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >>Of course, the compiler is free to optimize these things if it can prove
> >>that runtime's &statement_control: is the same as the internal
> >>optimized
On 11/22/05, Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What tipped me over the edge, however, is that I want ^$x back for a
> unary operator that is short for 0..^$x, that is, the range from 0
> to $x - 1. I kept wanting such an operator in revising S09. It also
> makes it easy to write
>
> for
On 11/23/05, Luke Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 11/23/05, Rob Kinyon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 11/22/05, Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > for ^5 { say } # 0, 1, 2, 3, 4
> >
> > I read this and I
On 11/23/05, Flavio S. Glock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Can we have:
>
> say 1..Inf;
>
> to output an infinite stream, instead of just looping forever?
>
> OTOH, it would be nice if
>
> say substr( ~(1..Inf), 0, 10 )
>
> printed "1 2 3 4 5".
>
> Flattened lists would still loop forever (or fa
On 11/23/05, Flavio S. Glock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> How about allowing reduce() to return a scalar with the same laziness
> as the list:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - a lazy string if @list is lazy
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - a lazy number if @list is lazy
>
> It would look like:
>
> $foo = s
On 11/23/05, Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> : I'm also puzzled that you feel the need to write 0..$n-1 so often; there
> : are so many alternatives to fenceposting in P5 that I almost never write
> : an expression like that, so why is it cropping up that much in P6?
>
> Couple reasons occu
I just read the slides about CAPerl (http://caperl.links.org/) and it's an
interesting idea. Leaving aside the question of whether this would work in
Perl5 or not, I think it would be very interesting to look at building this
concept into Perl6. Here's how I'd envision doing so:
* Any subrouti
> As for the original question, I think that the Perl 6 grammar will
> be a much better example for how to parse other languages than a
> Perl 5 grammar would be, since one of the underlying design currents
> from the beginning has been that Perl 6 had to be a language that
> was amenable to parsin
On 12/8/05, Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [snip] Certainly, as you speculate, if different authors want
> to share an API, they can give it an "API" author that knows how to
> delegate to one of the authors.
Would you mind elaborating on this some more?
Thanks,
Rob
[snip entire conversation so far]
(Please bear with me - I'm going to go in random directions.)
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that there's only
a few things missing in P6:
1) An elegant way of creating a tuple-type (the "table", so to speak)
2) A way of providing co
On 12/16/05, Ovid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- Rob Kinyon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > As for the syntactic sugar, I'm not quite sure what should be
> > done here. And, with macros, it's not clear that there needs
> > to be an authoritative ans
On 12/16/05, Ovid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Minor nit: we're discussing to the relational algebra and not the
> relational Calculus (unless the topic changed and I wasn't paying
> attention. I wouldn't be surprised :)
Algebra, in general, is a specific form of calculus. So, we're
speaking of
On 12/16/05, Darren Duncan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Something else I've been thinking about, as a tangent to the
> relational data models discussion, concerns Perl's concept of
> "undef", which I see as being fully equivalent to the relational
> model's concept of "null".
The relational model
On 12/17/05, Darren Duncan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
> 2. Until a value is put in a container, the container has the
> POTENTIAL to store any value from its domain, so with respect to that
> container, there are as many undefs as there are values in its
> domain; with some container types,
On 12/22/05, Michele Dondi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Suppose I want to navigate a tree and print out info contained in each of
> its leaves along with info gathered from the position in the tree of the
> list itself? Can I do it in a "universal" manner as hinted above that
> would work for other
On 12/22/05, Jonathan Scott Duff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 22, 2005 at 04:47:21PM +0100, Michele Dondi wrote:
> > Also I wonder if one will be able to push(), pop(), etc. array slices as
> > well whole arrays. A' la
> >
> > my @a=qw/aa bb cc dd ee/;
> > my $s=pop @a[0..2]; # or [0,2
On 12/27/05, Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2005 at 12:10:45AM -0500, Rob Kinyon wrote:
> : Creating an array whose positions are aliases for positions in another
> : array can be useful. How about
> :
> : my @s := @a[0,2,4] is alias;
> :
&
On 12/30/05, Piers Cawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Stuart Cook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > On 29/12/05, Austin Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> So, is there a conceptual connection between imposing named argument
> >> interpretation on pairs in an arg list and slurping up the end of
On 1/2/06, TSa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> HaloO,
>
> Luke Palmer wrote:
> > The point was that you should know when you're passing a named
> > argument, always. Objects that behave specially when passed to a
> > function prevent the ability to abstract uniformly using functions.[1]
> > ...
> > [
On 1/4/06, Luke Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Of course, this was introduced for a reason:
>
> sub min($x,$y) {
> $x <= $y ?? $x !! $y
> }
> sub min2($x, $y) {
> if $x <= $y { return $x }
> if $x > $y { return $y }
> }
>
> In the presence of junctions,
> I wouldn't see a problem with defining a "Real" role that has a fairly
> sparse set of operations. Afterall, a type that does support ++ and --
> (e.g. Int, Num) could easily "does Enumerable" if it wants to declare
> that it supports them.
What about the scripty-doo side of Perl6? One of the ov
On 1/12/06, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The "next/prev" semantics are, and should be more general than ±1, I
> just think that ±1 should remain the default for reals & ints.
So, Num (and all types that derive from Num) should have a next of {
@_[0] + 1 } and a prev of { @_
On 1/16/06, Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yes, at least for any block that really is capturing a closure.
> Perhaps we need to distinguish those from "accidentally" nested
> top-level functions. But undecorated "sub" is more-or-less defined
> to be "our sub" anyway, just as with "package
On 1/17/06, Audrey Tang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> But putter on #perl6 reports "1" on his amd64. I'd be happy we spec it
> has to have to return 1 always for boxed Num types, even though it means
> additional cycles for boxed numeric types.
Isn't the point of boxing to provide a hardware-indep
Today on #perl6, Audrey, Stevan and I were talking about $repr. A
tangent arose where Audrey said that the difference between class
methods and instance methods was simply whether or not the body
contained an attribute access.
Is this true? If it is, then I think it violates polymorphism as
demons
On 1/18/06, Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2006 at 01:56:53PM -0500, Rob Kinyon wrote:
> : Today on #perl6, Audrey, Stevan and I were talking about $repr. A
> : tangent arose where Audrey said that the difference between class
> : methods and instance
On 1/18/06, chromatic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wednesday 18 January 2006 14:13, Stevan Little wrote:
>
> > Do we really still need to retain the old Perl 5 version of &bless?
> > What purpose does it serve that p6opaque does not do in a better/
> > faster/cleaner way?
>
> Interoperability wi
On 1/18/06, chromatic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wednesday 18 January 2006 17:57, Rob Kinyon wrote:
>
> > Well, for one thing, you can't write OO code in P5.
>
> I'll play your semantic game if you play my what-if game.
>
> I have a fair bit of Perl 5 c
On 1/18/06, chromatic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wednesday 18 January 2006 19:11, Rob Kinyon wrote:
>
> > As for how that will be handled, I would think that it would be as follows:
> > - in Perl6, objects created in another language will be treated as
> &g
On 1/18/06, chromatic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 1) by default, your object is opaque
> 2) if you don't want this, you can always use bless()
>
> For interoperability with Perl 5 classes, I don't want to use an opaque
> object. Ergo, I want to use bless() (or something, but does that explain why
On 1/18/06, chromatic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wednesday 18 January 2006 19:39, Rob Kinyon wrote:
>
> > No, you want to specify the $repr in CREATE(). But, p6hash will still
> > not be the same as a ref to an HV. Frankly, I think you're better off
> > let
On 1/18/06, Trey Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Excuse my ignorance of the finer points, but I thought the reason for
> bless's continued existence was so that the same sort of brilliant OO
> experimentation that Damian and others have done with pure Perl 5 can
> continue to be done in pure Pe
On 1/19/06, Juerd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rob Kinyon skribis 2006-01-18 20:57 (-0500):
> > Well, for one thing, you can't write OO code in P5.
>
> Nonsense. OO isn't a set of features, and OO isn't syntax.
>
> Granted, syntax can really help to unde
On 1/18/06, Audrey Tang (autrijus) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://cakoose.com/wiki/type_system_terminology#13
"Any practical programming language with structural subtyping will
probably let you create and use aliases for type names (so you don't
have to write the full form everywhere). Howeve
To further extend Steve's argument (which I wholeheartedly agree
with), I wanted to point out one thing: &bless has nothing to do with
OO programming as conceived of in Perl6. It does one thing and only
one thing:
- tag a reference with a package name.
This is used in a few places:
- to d
On 1/19/06, Juerd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rob Kinyon skribis 2006-01-19 16:10 (-0500):
> > There are no references in Perl6.
> I have to admit, though, that I've never seen this statement, or
> anything implying it. It's entirely new to me.
>
> Is your Per
On 1/19/06, chromatic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wednesday 18 January 2006 20:02, Rob Kinyon wrote:
>
> > On 1/18/06, chromatic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > Answer me this then -- under your scheme, can I subclass a Perl 5 class
> > > with P
On 1/20/06, Juerd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Note, by the way, that JS has "primitive" strings, and Strings, only the
> latter being objects. Fortunately for us, though, a string is
> automatically promoted to a String when the string is USED AS an object.
In other words, according to userland,
On 1/19/06, chromatic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thursday 19 January 2006 19:50, Rob Kinyon wrote:
>
> > Nothing. Just like it's not a problem if Perl6 uses one of the
> > Ruby-specific PMCs for storage. In fact, the alternate $repr idea is
> > specifica
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