Re: Indeterminate math

On Tue, Oct 15, 2002 at 04:07:51PM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > [1]: This comes from a recent discussion on perlmonks where i attempted > to formally iron things out for people, since i have yet to see anywhere > thus far on the web where it was actually formalized. > (formalization being mark

Re: Indeterminate math

long time reader, first time writer... On Tue, Oct 15, 2002 at 10:06:37PM +0200, Angel Faus wrote: > > > > > Mathematically, 1/0 is whatever you define it to be. > > > > Well, sure. That's as axiomatic as saying, "mathematically, the > > number one is whatever you define it to be." But a mathe

Re: Indeterminate math

> Put another way, is there a significant difference between: > > eval { > $foo = 1/0; > print "Bar"; > } > if( $@ =~ /^Illegal division by zero/ ) { > ... oops ... > } > > and > > try { > $foo = 1/0; > print "Bar"; > } > catch { >

Re: Indeterminate math

In a message dated Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Michael G Schwern writes: > On Tue, Oct 15, 2002 at 01:44:50PM -0500, Jonathan Scott Duff wrote: > > People have used the terms "error" and "exception" interchangably in > > this disucssion. To me, an "error" is something that stops program > > execution whil

Re: Indeterminate math

On Tue, Oct 15, 2002 at 01:44:50PM -0500, Jonathan Scott Duff wrote: > People have used the terms "error" and "exception" interchangably in > this disucssion. To me, an "error" is something that stops program > execution while an "exception" may or may not stop execution depending > on what the u

Re: Indeterminate math

In a message dated Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Jonathan Scott Duff writes: > People have used the terms "error" and "exception" interchangably in > this disucssion. To me, an "error" is something that stops program > execution while an "exception" may or may not stop execution depending > on what the user

Re: Indeterminate math

On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 04:44 AM, Jonathan Scott Duff wrote: > People have used the terms "error" and "exception" interchangably in > this disucssion. To me, an "error" is something that stops program > execution while an "exception" may or may not stop execution depending > on what

Re: Indeterminate math

On Wed, Oct 16, 2002 at 02:54:37AM +1000, Ken Williams wrote: > > On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, at 07:05 AM, Michael G Schwern wrote: > > This came up at YAPC::Europe. Someone [1] wanted to know if 1/0 would > > produce a divide by zero error in Perl 6, or if it would return a value > > represe

Re: Prototype-Based Inheritance (was Re: Indeterminate math)

Would it make sense for the syntax to be more like my $obj3 = $obj.new; Of course, that would kill my ".= new" idea for instantiation (since it would call an instance-based new instead of class-based), but I'm getting less fond of that syntax anyway (though I think .= should definitely be suppo

Prototype-Based Inheritance (was Re: Indeterminate math)

On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 07:54 PM, Mark J. Reed wrote: > Heh, indeed. :) But seriously, you could do worse. JavaScript > receives > a lot of (IMHO) undeserved criticism. The name is a blatant marketing No, I've had to use it off-and-on for the past year... it deserves it. :-) But

Re: Indeterminate math

On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, at 07:05 AM, Michael G Schwern wrote: > This came up at YAPC::Europe. Someone [1] wanted to know if 1/0 would > produce a divide by zero error in Perl 6, or if it would return a value > representing an indeterminate result (undef?) It would make more sense > for

Re: Indeterminate math

> > > Mathematically, 1/0 is whatever you define it to be. > > Well, sure. That's as axiomatic as saying, "mathematically, the > number one is whatever you define it to be." But a mathematical > system that has a definition which is inconsistent with the rest of > the system is a flawed one. If

Re: Indeterminate math

In a message dated Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Angel Faus writes: > > > Mathematically, 1/0 is not +Infinity. It's undefined/indeterminate > > in the set of rational numbers. The IEEE may say otherwise. > > Mathematically, 1/0 is whatever you define it to be. Well, sure. That's as axiomatic as saying,

Re: Indeterminate math

> Mathematically, 1/0 is not +Infinity. It's undefined/indeterminate > in the set of rational numbers. The IEEE may say otherwise. Mathematically, 1/0 is whatever you define it to be. And it is perfectly correct to assume that operations happen in the extended real line, and thus that 1/0 i

Re: Indeterminate math

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >From: Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >>This came up at YAPC::Europe. Someone [1] wanted to know if 1/0 >>would produce a divide by zero error in Perl 6, or if it would >>return a value representing an indeterminate result (undef?) >>It would make more sense f

Re: Indeterminate math

Sounds like a good place for "fail", as described in Exegesis 4, so that it could be taken as undef or an exception depending on pragmata. > This came up at YAPC::Europe. Someone [1] wanted to know if 1/0 would > produce a divide by zero error in Perl 6, or if it would return a value > represent

Re: Indeterminate math

On 2002-10-14 at 20:49:52, Michael G Schwern wrote: > > It is also, as an example, the behavior required by the ECMAScript > > specification. > > Heh. "Because Javascript does it" is supposed to be an argument for? ;) Heh, indeed. :) But seriously, you could do worse. JavaScript receives a lot

RE: Indeterminate math

Mark J. Reed wrote: > I realize the above is mathematically simplistic. The > real reason y = x/0 returns an error is because no matter what > value you assign to y, you aren't going to get x back via multiplying > y by 0. Well, that may be true in math; but there's no reason why it has to be tr

Re: Indeterminate math

On Mon, Oct 14, 2002 at 08:25:43PM -0400, Mark J. Reed wrote: > On 2002-10-14 at 20:15:33, Michael G Schwern wrote: > > There are several verbal proofs why 1/0 is not +Infinity here: > > http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.divideby0.html > > Yeah, that would be why I sent my followup. I did no

Re: Indeterminate math

On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : From: Mark J. Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] : > Summary of values: : > : >1/0 +Inf : >-1/0 -Inf : >0/0 NaN : >Inf/0NaN : >Inf/Inf NaN : : Are Inf and NaN going to be standard i

Re: Indeterminate math

On Monday 14 October 2002 20:20, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Are Inf and NaN going to be standard in Perl 6? As long as we're traveling > down that road, how about i (the square root of -1), or Lukasiwiscean Null? > (Sorry if I sound sarcastic, I'm actually honestly curious.) > After much fighting

Re: Indeterminate math

On 2002-10-14 at 20:15:33, Michael G Schwern wrote: > There are several verbal proofs why 1/0 is not +Infinity here: > http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.divideby0.html Yeah, that would be why I sent my followup. I did not mean to imply that 1/0 is positive infinity in "real world math". How

Re: Indeterminate math

From: Mark J. Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Summary of values: > >1/0 +Inf >-1/0 -Inf >0/0 NaN >Inf/0NaN >Inf/Inf NaN Are Inf and NaN going to be standard in Perl 6? As long as we're traveling down that road, how about i (

Re: Indeterminate math

On Mon, Oct 14, 2002 at 07:48:23PM -0400, Mark J. Reed wrote: > Actually, 1/0 is not NaN; it's +Infinity. You only get NaN out of > dividing by 0 if the numerator is either infinite or also 0. There are several verbal proofs why 1/0 is not +Infinity here: http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.div

Re: Indeterminate math

On 2002-10-14 at 19:48:23, Mark J. Reed wrote: > Actually, 1/0 is not NaN; it's +Infinity. You only get NaN out of > dividing by 0 if the numerator is either infinite or also 0. > The reason most implementations throw an error on division by 0 > is that they either don't have a representation for

Re: Indeterminate math

Actually, 1/0 is not NaN; it's +Infinity. You only get NaN out of dividing by 0 if the numerator is either infinite or also 0. The reason most implementations throw an error on division by 0 is that they either don't have a representation for infinity (not a problem in IEEE floating point) or t

Re: Indeterminate math

On Mon, Oct 14, 2002 at 07:06:57PM -0400, Michael G Schwern wrote: > What happens when NaN is used in an expression? Is NaN + 0 == NaN? Actually, NaN is never equal to anything at all, even NaN. Many languages have an isNaN() function for that. -- David "cogent" Hand

Re: Indeterminate math

On Mon, Oct 14, 2002 at 05:45:23PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > The problem with returning undef is that undef numifies to zero. Yes, but it does produce a warning. > It would make more sense if either 1/0 returned NaN, if Perl6 has NaN, or > throw an error, which Larry has indicated will

Re: Indeterminate math

At 10:38 PM +0100 10/14/02, Leon Brocard wrote: >Michael G Schwern sent the following bits through the ether: > >> Someone [1] wanted to know if 1/0 would produce a divide by zero >> error in Perl 6, or if it would return a value representing an >> indeterminate result (undef?) > >This is proba

RE: Indeterminate math

From: Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] > This came up at YAPC::Europe. Someone [1] wanted to know if 1/0 > would produce a divide by zero error in Perl 6, or if it would > return a value representing an indeterminate result (undef?) > It would make more sense for Perl, upon being given a simpl

Re: Indeterminate math

Michael G Schwern sent the following bits through the ether: > Someone [1] wanted to know if 1/0 would produce a divide by zero > error in Perl 6, or if it would return a value representing an > indeterminate result (undef?) This is probably the mathematician in me escaping, but I also remember

Re: Indeterminate math

On Mon, Oct 14, 2002 at 05:05:14PM -0400, Michael G Schwern wrote: > This came up at YAPC::Europe. Someone [1] wanted to know if 1/0 would > produce a divide by zero error in Perl 6, or if it would return a value > representing an indeterminate result (undef?) It would make more sense for > Perl