Re: perl6-lang Project Management

Dan Sugalski wrote: > Simon Cozens wrote: > > >Here is my suggested solution to the problem. > And, though, snipped, a fine solution it is, with two caveats: There's potential here. If we arrange it so Larry can stay focused and the total productivity of the project increases, we'll have a good t

Re: Primitive Vs Object types

I gotta admit that this issue is bugging me too. Larry mentions (in ) that all-uppercase is "ugly" and has "boundary conditions". Maybe it would be helpful to know what conditions ar

RE: Primitive Vs Object types

Dan Sugalski [mailto:dan@;sidhe.org] wrote: > At 8:24 PM -0800 11/6/02, David Whipp wrote: > >If I am wrong, then I am in need of enlightenment. What > >is the difference between the primitive types and their > >heavyweight partners? And which should I use in a typical > >script? > > The big diff

Re: Primitive Vs Object types

David Whipp wrote: > > Dan Sugalski [mailto:dan@;sidhe.org] wrote: > > At 6:50 PM -0800 11/6/02, David Whipp wrote: > > > Whenever a value passes through a primitive type, it > > > loses all its run-time properties; and superpositions > > > will collapse. > > > > What makes you think so, and are y

RE: Primitive Vs Object types

At 8:24 PM -0800 11/6/02, David Whipp wrote: If I am wrong, then I am in need of enlightenment. What is the difference between the primitive types and their heavyweight partners? And which should I use in a typical script? The big difference is there's no way you can ever truly get a primitive

RE: Primitive Vs Object types

Dan Sugalski [mailto:dan@;sidhe.org] wrote: > At 6:50 PM -0800 11/6/02, David Whipp wrote: > > Whenever a value passes through a primitive type, it > > loses all its run-time properties; and superpositions > > will collapse. > > What makes you think so, and are you really sure? I was sure up unti

Re: Primitive Vs Object types

At 6:50 PM -0800 11/6/02, David Whipp wrote: Whenever a value passes through a primitive type, it loses all its run-time properties; and superpositions will collapse. What makes you think so, and are you really sure? -- Dan ---

Primitive Vs Object types

Every primitive type has an associated object type, whose name differs only by capitalized first letter. A few posts back, Larry mentioned that perhaps similar things should look different: this may be a good case to apply this principle. Whenever a value passes through a primitive type, it loses

Re: String -> Numeric conversion

Luke Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Mailing-List: contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]; run by ezmlm >> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 14:53:37 -0800 >> From: Michael Lazzaro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> X-SMTPD: qpsmtpd/0.12, http://develooper.com/code/qpsmtpd/ >> >> >> If anyone knows the answer to these two que

Re: list comprehensions

"Adam D. Lopresto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> I don't see why I'd want to do it with arrays, but... >> >> %a_students = %grades{grep /^a/i, keys %grades}; > > Looks like that's just the same as > > %a_students = grep {.key ~~ :i/^a/}, %grades.kv; I think you could probably get away without

Re: perl6-lang Project Management

At 11:39 PM + 11/6/02, Simon Cozens wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dan Sugalski) writes: > 2) Under no circumstances can Larry be allowed to subscribe, or even read, the lists. :) I thought that was so obvious it wasn't worth mentioning. :) It's the blatantly obvious stuff that gets missed t

Re: perl6-lang Project Management

On Wednesday, November 6, 2002, at 03:34 PM, Dan Sugalski wrote: At 11:15 PM + 11/6/02, Simon Cozens wrote: Here is my suggested solution to the problem. And, though, snipped, a fine solution it is, with two caveats: 1) There *must* be someone who will drive the discussion, or it will

Re: perl6-lang Project Management

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dan Sugalski) writes: > 1) There *must* be someone who will drive the discussion, or it will > wander off into some bizarre corner and die That's the job of the Apo pumpkin. > 2) Under no circumstances can Larry be allowed to subscribe, or even > read, the lists. :) I thought

Re: perl6-lang Project Management

At 11:15 PM + 11/6/02, Simon Cozens wrote: I think you're equating a pool of "available" talent and labor with a pool of willing talent and labour. Everyone is willing to offer suggestions, but few people - you being one of the few - are willing to put the time into thrashing these suggestions

Re: perl6-lang Project Management

This is getting silly. [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Lazzaro) writes: > Seriously, don't patronize me: it won't get you anywhere productive, > and it just ticks me off. I am not _unaware_ of the current Perl6 > dynamics and management decisions; on the contrary, I am observing > that the current ap

Re: String -> Numeric conversion

> Mailing-List: contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]; run by ezmlm > Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 14:53:37 -0800 > From: Michael Lazzaro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > X-SMTPD: qpsmtpd/0.12, http://develooper.com/code/qpsmtpd/ > > > If anyone knows the answer to these two questions, I'd appreciate it. > > 1) What do these

Re: perl6-lang Project Management

Nicholas Clark wrote: > > Not good. 5 patches means that 4 people wasted effort trying to help. > I don't have a solution to this problem (sorry). But I think it's an > important problem to solve. Wasted effort is a problem. I don't know that a perfect solution exists. Parrot's solution of making

String -> Numeric conversion

If anyone knows the answer to these two questions, I'd appreciate it. 1) What do these do? my int $n = 5; # OK my int $n = 5.005; # trunc or err? my int $n = "5.05ff" # 5, 0, undef, NaN, or exception? my int $n = "fdsjfdf"# 0, undef, NaN, or exception? 2) Do

Re: perl6-lang Project Management

My apologies for one more post, but I find the assertions various people have posted on this topic to be absolutely astounding. On Wednesday, November 6, 2002, at 12:44 PM, Allison Randal wrote: I don't *WANT* to write damn documentation. I wrote a first-chapter summary of some basic Apocalypse

Re: perl6-lang Project Management

At 2:44 PM -0600 11/6/02, Allison Randal wrote: The obstruction you're imagining doesn't exist. The "Parroteers" ask for guidance from Dan. When Dan feels the details aren't clear enough yet he brings the issue to the rest of the design team. When none of us can give him an immediate answer (becau

Re: perl6-lang Project Management

On Wednesday, November 6, 2002, at 12:26 PM, Garrett Goebel wrote: Angel Faus wrote: So, while we all wait for Larry to wait the design, is there any reason not to start working in the documentation? Yes! Someone gets it! The Apocalypses and Exegesis are not "formal" documentation, they're

Re: perl6-lang Project Management

On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 10:54:23AM -0800, Michael Lazzaro wrote: > > -- The "latest news" on the Perl6 section of dev.perl.org was updated > July 7th, introducing Piers, and other than linking to Piers' summaries > contains no information pertinent to Perl6 -- only Parrot. Sounds like a place y

Re: perl6-lang Project Management

At 9:57 PM +0100 11/6/02, Angel Faus wrote: It's like this: Larry writes the Apocalypses, Damian the Exegesis, and the community writes the Cathecism (a codified, detallied and anonymous explanation of the most boring details of the faith, written in a form that plain people can understand). Mak

RE: perl6-lang Project Management

At 2:26 PM -0600 11/6/02, Garrett Goebel wrote: Angel Faus wrote: So, while we all wait for Larry to wait the design, is there any reason not to start working in the documentation? Any chance of getting a wiki setup at: http://dev.perl.org/perl6/cathecism/ Wikis have serious scaling issu

RE: perl6-lang Project Management

Angel Faus wrote: > > So, while we all wait for Larry to wait the design, is there any > reason not to start working in the documentation? Any chance of getting a wiki setup at: http://dev.perl.org/perl6/cathecism/ Say using a wiki which uses pod for markup like: http://search.cpan.org/auth

Re: perl6-lang Project Management

I'm going to repeat what chromatic said (even though I've deleted his message) On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 09:57:58PM +0100, Angel Faus wrote: > - Finish the details that may be not complete in the Apocalypses > (there are plenty of them) write specifications of all the detailed bits as regression t

Re: perl6-lang Project Management

On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 01:50:10PM -0600, Allison Randal wrote: > On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 06:58:52PM +, Simon Cozens wrote: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Lazzaro) writes: > > > Big, Big HOLE in the middle. _Who_ is fleshing out the mindless, > > > trivial details that Larry posts to this list

Re: perl6-lang Project Management

On Wednesday, November 6, 2002, at 12:10 PM, Simon Cozens wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Lazzaro) writes: No, that's the Apocalypses and Exegesiii, though very nicely cleaned up. I'm talking about detailed documentation for the things the A's and E's don't cover. Ah, well, they don't cov

Re: perl6-lang Project Management

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Lazzaro) writes: > No, that's the Apocalypses and Exegesiii, though very nicely cleaned > up. I'm talking about detailed documentation for the things the A's > and E's don't cover. Ah, well, they don't cover that. I thought that was what you were doing, right? :) -- S

Re: perl6-lang Project Management

> We started off with an intense RFC process. This produced many good > ideas, not-so-good ideas, and ideas with potential but desperately > needing polish. If you'd like a recap, you might try MJD's article > on the subject (http://www.perl.com/lpt/a/2000/11/perl6rfc.html). > One of the major thin

Re: Perl6 Operator List (REMAINING ISSUES)

Peter Haworth writes: > > @a ^[alpha_op] +3 > > You can parse this in two ways: > * "array a", "hyperop alpha_op", "unary plus", "literal 3" > * "array a", "binary xor", "call alpha_op and put result in arrayref", >"binary plus", "literal 3" > I think this was already discusse d

Re: list comprehensions

On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 11:36:50AM -0800, Larry Wall wrote: > You know, guys, I already discussed this one in A4 or thereabouts. > It's the use of an explicit boolean operator as a subscript that > triggers selection. I thought so, but I couldn't find it. thanks, -Scott -- Jonathan Scott Duff [

Re: perl6-lang Project Management

On Wednesday, November 6, 2002, at 10:58 AM, Simon Cozens wrote: It's all at http://cvs.perl.org/cvsweb/perl6/doc/design/ No, that's the Apocalypses and Exegesiii, though very nicely cleaned up. I'm talking about detailed documentation for the things the A's and E's don't cover. MikeL

Re: perl6-lang Project Management

On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 06:58:52PM +, Simon Cozens wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Lazzaro) writes: > > Big, Big HOLE in the middle. _Who_ is fleshing out the mindless, > > trivial details that Larry posts to this list, and _who_ is > > creating/updating the documentation to reflect those

Re: list comprehensions

> I don't see why I'd want to do it with arrays, but... > > %a_students = %grades{grep /^a/i, keys %grades}; Looks like that's just the same as %a_students = grep {.key ~~ :i/^a/}, %grades.kv; (after adjusting for perl6 syntax for a few things) -- Adam Lopresto ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://cec.

Re: perl6-lang Project Management

On Tue, 05 Nov 2002 23:18:01 -0800, Allison Randal wrote: > If you really want to be involved where the rubber meets the road -- where the > "abstract" design gets tested and every last detail must be fleshed out -- you > might contribute to Parrot. It has a good many of the features of the first

Re: list comprehensions

You know, guys, I already discussed this one in A4 or thereabouts. It's the use of an explicit boolean operator as a subscript that triggers selection. Larry

Re: perl6-lang Project Management

On Tue, Nov 05, 2002 at 04:26:58PM -0800, Michael Lazzaro wrote: > So what say you? Can we migrate perl6-language into a list that > finalizes aspects of the design, documents them, and revises them as > needed, rather than our usual circular discussions of things already > long-since past? Wh

Re: list comprehensions

> Will there be some shorter-hand way to say these? > [list comprehensions] (bb clarified that this is about hash slicing.) >From A2: RFC 201: Hash Slicing ...Concise list comprehensions will require some other syntax within the subscript... And There are many ways we could re

Re: [RFC] Perl Operator List, TAKE 6

On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:13:36 -0800 Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You're not supposed to use string concatenation > all that often anyway... I'm not supposed (for some value of supposed) to use Perl at my job, but I do, and I suspect I use string concatenation in about one script in five,

Re: [RFC] Perl Operator List, TAKE 6

On Tue, Nov 05, 2002 at 08:18:18PM +0100, Dennis Haney wrote: : Michael Lazzaro wrote: : : > ~ - force to string context : : > ~ ~= - string concat : : ARG. When did this get chosen? : ~ has to be absolutly the most difficult letter to type on the intire : keyboar

Re: Perl6 Operator List (REMAINING ISSUES)

[Apologies for late reply, but it takes a long time to read this many messages] On Wed, 30 Oct 2002 16:37:09 -0800, Michael Lazzaro wrote: 1) Need a definitive syntax for hypers, > ^[op] and «op» > have been most seriously proposed -- something that > keeps a bracketed syntax, but

Re: perl6-lang Project Management

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Lazzaro) writes: > Big, Big HOLE in the middle. _Who_ is fleshing out the mindless, > trivial details that Larry posts to this list, and _who_ is > creating/updating the documentation to reflect those changes? Anyone? Allison is, but she was too modest to say so. (And

Re: Supercomma! (was Re: UTF-8 and Unicode FAQ, demos)

On Tue, Nov 05, 2002 at 11:36:45AM -0500, Ken Fox wrote: : Jonathan Scott Duff wrote: : : >Um ... could we have a zip functor as well? I think the common case : >will be to pull N elements from each list rather than N from one, M : >from another, etc. So, in the spirit of timtowtdi: : > : >

Re: list comprehensions

--- Buddha Buck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think that if there were a slice-based form of grep, it would most > likely look like you are indexing by a subroutine (or method) > reference > that takes no arguments other than an element of the array. > Something like: > >@a = @grades[{$^x

Re: perl6-lang Project Management

On Tuesday, November 5, 2002, at 11:18 PM, Allison Randal wrote: Since you're interested in the management of the Perl 6 project, I'll let you in on some of it. Let's start with a step back into a bit of history: OK, let me pause for a second... pause, pause, pause... OK, I'm better now. Pl

Re: Supercomma! (was Re: UTF-8 and Unicode FAQ, demos)

On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 07:27:56PM -0800, Brian Ingerson wrote: : Mutt? : : I'm using mutt and I still haven't had the privledge of correctly viewing one : of these unicode characters yet. I'm gonna be really mad if you say you're : also using an OS X terminal. I suspect that it's my horrific OS X

Re: list comprehensions

Piers Cawley wrote: Jonathan Scott Duff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Will there be some shorter-hand way to say these? @a = @grades[grep $_ >= 90, @grades]; @b = @grades[grep 80 <= $_ < 90, @grades]; @c = @grades[grep 70 <= $_ < 80, @grades]; Granted, it's fairly compact as it is but I'm wo

Re: list comprehensions

Jonathan Scott Duff wrote: On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 12:54:12PM -0500, Mark J. Reed wrote: On 2002-11-06 at 11:43:20, Jonathan Scott Duff wrote: Will there be some shorter-hand way to say these? @a = @grades[grep $_ >= 90, @grades]; @b = @grades[grep 80 <= $_ < 90, @grades]; @c = @grades[gre

Re: list comprehensions

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Piers Cawley) writes: > I confess I never quite understood why the python folks were so proud > of list comprehensions, AFAICT they're just 'grep' and 'map' given > fancy descriptions. Well, sort of. They're more like this: @array[grep { func() } 0..$#array] -- "If you

Re: list comprehensions

Jonathan Scott Duff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Will there be some shorter-hand way to say these? > > @a = @grades[grep $_ >= 90, @grades]; > @b = @grades[grep 80 <= $_ < 90, @grades]; > @c = @grades[grep 70 <= $_ < 80, @grades]; > > Granted, it's fairly compact as it is but I'

Re: list comprehensions

On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 12:54:12PM -0500, Mark J. Reed wrote: > > On 2002-11-06 at 11:43:20, Jonathan Scott Duff wrote: > > > > Will there be some shorter-hand way to say these? > > > > @a = @grades[grep $_ >= 90, @grades]; > > @b = @grades[grep 80 <= $_ < 90, @grades]; > > @c = @gra

Re: Keyword arguments

"Paul Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Austin Hastings said: > >> sub callmysub >> { >> mysub("Testing .. 1, 2, 3!"; key => 1024, align => Module::RIGHT); >> } >> >> Which, upon reflection, apparently introduces an "implicit hashparsing" >> context for autoquoting hashkeys. > > Those are p

Re: list comprehensions

On 2002-11-06 at 11:43:20, Jonathan Scott Duff wrote: > > Will there be some shorter-hand way to say these? > > @a = @grades[grep $_ >= 90, @grades]; > @b = @grades[grep 80 <= $_ < 90, @grades]; > @c = @grades[grep 70 <= $_ < 80, @grades]; I think what you mean here is just

list comprehensions

Will there be some shorter-hand way to say these? @a = @grades[grep $_ >= 90, @grades]; @b = @grades[grep 80 <= $_ < 90, @grades]; @c = @grades[grep 70 <= $_ < 80, @grades]; Granted, it's fairly compact as it is but I'm wondering if there's some way to not have to mention

Re: Keyword arguments

Austin Hastings said: > sub callmysub > { > mysub("Testing .. 1, 2, 3!"; key => 1024, align => Module::RIGHT); > } > > Which, upon reflection, apparently introduces an "implicit hashparsing" > context for autoquoting hashkeys. Those are pairs, aren't they? -- Paul Johnson - [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Keyword arguments

> Mailing-List: contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]; run by ezmlm > From: Piers Cawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 12:44:39 + > X-SMTPD: qpsmtpd/0.12, http://develooper.com/code/qpsmtpd/ > > So, I was, thinking about the way Common Lisp handles keyword > arguments. It's possible to decl

Re: Keyword arguments

I think Damian already covered this: it's the semicolon. sub mysub(String $content; int $key, int $align) { ... } sub callmysub { mysub("Testing .. 1, 2, 3!"; key => 1024, align => Module::RIGHT); } Which, upon reflection, apparently introduces an "implicit hashparsing" context for autoquotin

Superpositions and laziness

It occurred to me that being able to set up 'pure' functions in such a way that they are lazily evaluated when passed a superposition might be a win. And then I got to thinking about what would be required from the language to allow me to implement this functionality in a module. I am assuming (fo

Keyword arguments

So, I was, thinking about the way Common Lisp handles keyword arguments. It's possible to declare a Lisp function as follows: (defun make-para ( content &key alignment font size color ) ...) The point here is that the first argument is dealt with positionally, and subsequent, optional args ar

Re: This weeks Perl 6 summary

On Wed 06 Nov, Piers Cawley wrote: > miniparrot, a first attempt > If you've been paying attention to the Parrot build process, you'll be > aware that it was always a goal to use a cut down variant of parrot > itself to run the configuration tests. The plan is that this miniparrot >

Re: This weeks Perl 6 summary

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Piers Cawley) writes: > * Superpositional operators will be too rare to justify giving them > precious one character operators. I don't think I think that they'd be too rare. (I think) But I do think that we're overinflating their importance. Changing the way peopl

This weeks Perl 6 summary

The Perl 6 Summary for the week ending 20021103 Welcome to the latest of the ongoing series of Perl 6 summaries, in which your arrogant moderator does battle with the forces of prolixity in a Brobdingnagian attempt to tame the tortuously tangled threads of Perl 6's design and develo

vote no - Re: Unicode operators [Was: Re: UTF-8 and Unicode FAQ, demos]

The first message had many of the following characters viewable in my telnet window, but the repost introduced a 0xC2 prefix to the 0xA7 character. I have this feeling that many people would vote against posting all these funny characters, as is does make reading the perl6 mailing lists difficult