On Tue, 8 Aug 2000 20:58:46 -0400 (EDT), Dan Sugalski wrote:
>On Tue, 8 Aug 2000, Bart Lateur wrote:
>
>> Time for subroutine threading, isntead of op threading?
>
>Probably, depending on your definition of subroutine threading.
>
>> That would definitely make the "compiled" code at least twice a
Bart Lateur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>On Tue, 08 Aug 2000 11:33:06 -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
>
>>The problem perl will always run into is that our executable code counts as
>>data to CPUs, and lives in the D cache, along with all the data we work on.
>>Ripping through a few 100K strings'll k
Chaim Frenkel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> "NI" == Nick Ing-Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>NI> Chaim Frenkel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>> Have every Package generate a vtbl for each subroutine in the package.
>>> Then when something is blessed into the package (if this is retained
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>On Tue, 8 Aug 2000, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
>
>> Perl6 Rfc Librarian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> >This document is not precisely concerned with the details of the
>> >implementation
>> >of the interfaces it specifies, beyond a general attempt to restric
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>I've been considering adding all the 'basic' operations (simple math,
>repetition, maybe comparisons) into the base vtable. That'd mean that,
>while the core perl might have *no* idea what to do with:
>
> @foo = @bar * 12;
>
>the slots would be there in
On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:11:55 +0100 (BST), Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
>> @foo = @bar * 12;
>
>I like it.
>It is pretty obvious what above should do:
>
>@foo = ();
>foreach my $elem (@bar)
> {
> push(@foo,$elem * 12);
> }
@foo = map { $_ * 12 } @bar;
I don't see the need for a new notat
Bart Lateur wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:11:55 +0100 (BST), Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
>
> >> @foo = @bar * 12;
> >
> >I like it.
>
> >It is pretty obvious what above should do:
> >
> >@foo = ();
> >foreach my $elem (@bar)
> > {
> > push(@foo,$elem * 12);
> > }
>
> @foo = map { $_ * 12 } @bar;
>
On Mon, Aug 07, 2000 at 02:16:37PM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
> If one does 'use tristate' I would hope they know what they are doing
> or asking for.
>
> And in fact, I would want the warning turned off. One of the pains
> in doing sybperl, is I have to liberally sprinkle $^W=0 or
> do a lot of
At 01:55 PM 8/9/00 +0200, Bart Lateur wrote:
>On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:11:55 +0100 (BST), Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
>
> >> @foo = @bar * 12;
> >
> >I like it.
>
> >It is pretty obvious what above should do:
> >
> >@foo = ();
> >foreach my $elem (@bar)
> > {
> > push(@foo,$elem * 12);
> > }
>
>
At 09:11 AM 8/9/00 +0100, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
>Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> >I've been considering adding all the 'basic' operations (simple math,
> >repetition, maybe comparisons) into the base vtable. That'd mean that,
> >while the core perl might have *no* idea what to do
At 10:04 PM 8/8/00 -0400, Ken Fox wrote:
>Chaim Frenkel wrote:
> > > "DS" == Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > DS> To do it generally opens a huge can of worms. Doing it in a limited
> number
> > DS> of cases (int->BigInt, float->BigRat, char->UTF8) is more
> reasonable, and
> > D
> "NI" == Nick Ing-Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
NI> So having the object carry around a (pointer to a) table to methods
NI> has merit. But how to index that table? Computing the union of all possible
NI> method names for all possible classes and assiging each a slot in the table
NI>
At 11:27 PM 8/9/00 +1000, Jeremy Howard wrote:
>5- Compact array storage: RFC still coming
I hope this RFC will be "Arrays should be sparse when possible, and
compact" and just about nothing else. :)
Dan
--"it's like t
At 08:16 PM 8/8/00 +, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
>Caches work well with small-ish linear-ish hotspots that keep being re-used.
>When access pattern does not follow that pattern things get (gradually) worse.
>
>How gradual and how -ish depends on cache architecture which is
>fun, often proprietary
At 10:36 PM 8/8/00 -0400, Ken Fox wrote:
>Dan Sugalski wrote:
> > At 09:25 AM 8/6/00 -0400, Ken Fox wrote:
> > > We're definitely going to have some sort of traversing collector. It
> > > might only augment the ref count collector.
> >
> > I'd rather not have multiple GC schemes going at once. (Th
At 10:01 AM 8/9/00 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
> > "NI" == Nick Ing-Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>NI> So having the object carry around a (pointer to a) table to methods
>NI> has merit. But how to index that table? Computing the union of all
>possible
>NI> method names for all possib
On Wed, Aug 09, 2000 at 10:01:46AM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
> > "NI" == Nick Ing-Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> NI> So having the object carry around a (pointer to a) table to methods
> NI> has merit. But how to index that table? Computing the union of all possible
> NI> method
On Wed, Aug 09, 2000 at 10:16:03AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> At 10:01 AM 8/9/00 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
> >But for the generic object. The package itself can contain an indirection
> >table. This would be that sparse table with the offset in the object vtbl.
>
> That's going to be a v
On Wed, 09 Aug 2000 10:04:15 -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
>>5- Compact array storage: RFC still coming
>
>I hope this RFC will be "Arrays should be sparse when possible, and
>compact" and just about nothing else. :)
You mean, something like hashes?
Faster hashes, maybe, with a hash function opti
At 11:24 AM 8/9/00 -0400, Joshua N Pritikin wrote:
>On Wed, Aug 09, 2000 at 10:16:03AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > At 10:01 AM 8/9/00 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
> > >But for the generic object. The package itself can contain an indirection
> > >table. This would be that sparse table with
> "GB" == Graham Barr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
GB> On Wed, Aug 09, 2000 at 10:01:46AM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
>> For the "my Dog $spot" case, that's not an issue, compile time resolution.
GB> And why would an object of type Scotty which inherits from Dog not
GB> be valid to assign to
At 05:41 PM 8/9/00 +0200, Bart Lateur wrote:
>On Wed, 09 Aug 2000 10:04:15 -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
>
> >>5- Compact array storage: RFC still coming
> >
> >I hope this RFC will be "Arrays should be sparse when possible, and
> >compact" and just about nothing else. :)
>
>You mean, something like
On Wed, Aug 09, 2000 at 11:53:56AM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
> > "GB" == Graham Barr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> GB> On Wed, Aug 09, 2000 at 10:01:46AM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
>
> >> For the "my Dog $spot" case, that's not an issue, compile time resolution.
>
> GB> And why would a
Dan Sugalski wrote:
>
> On Tue, 8 Aug 2000, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
> >
> > this list is _only_ concerned with implementation details.
>
> Well, assuming you consider API definitions implementation details. :)
>
> Dan
I thought from the example RFC that
At 04:41 PM 8/9/00 +, David L. Nicol wrote:
>Dan Sugalski wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 8 Aug 2000, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
> > >
> > > this list is _only_ concerned with implementation details.
> >
> > Well, assuming you consider API definitions implementation details. :)
> >
> >
Dan Sugalski wrote:
> >ways to link C functions other than C (or any other external
> >binary with a specifiable linkage) directly into Perl, so that
> >not only do I not have to fire up a sub process, I don't even have to
> >select the blade of my fancy pocket knife with a command line option:
> "GB" == Graham Barr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> Yup. But the vtbl approach allows us to merge op calls and user sub calls
>> into one method.
GB> Ah, you are suggesting something like,
GB> every known sub name is assigned a number and each package has an array
GB> and the op just conta
On Wed, 09 Aug 2000, Bart Lateur wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:11:55 +0100 (BST), Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
>
> >> @foo = @bar * 12;
> >
> >I like it.
>
> >It is pretty obvious what above should do:
> >
> >@foo = ();
> >foreach my $elem (@bar)
> > {
> > push(@foo,$elem * 12);
> > }
>
>
On Wed, 09 Aug 2000, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
> >It can't access data the lexer's already tossed out.
>
> A source filter can, but not elegantly.
I thought the source filter got it before it goes to the lexer?
--
Bryan C. Warnock
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
At 03:52 PM 8/9/00 -0400, Bryan C. Warnock wrote:
>On Wed, 09 Aug 2000, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
> > >It can't access data the lexer's already tossed out.
> >
> > A source filter can, but not elegantly.
>
>I thought the source filter got it before it goes to the lexer?
It does, but that hardly cou
Graham Barr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> For the "my Dog $spot" case, that's not an issue, compile time resolution.
>
>And why would an object of type Scotty which inherits from Dog not
>be valid to assign to $spot. And if Scotty overrides some methods
>you have a problem.
We _could_ do the C++
David L . Nicol <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>
>The difference, whether a .o becomes a stand-alone executable or
>part of a .so, is at link time.
On modern OSes (Linux, Solaris, Win32) there is very little difference
between an executable and a shared object.
>
>I imagined when I wrote 61 th
On Wed, Aug 09, 2000 at 03:32:41PM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
> Each sub has a unique number.
>
> Package A - Has nothing blessed, doesn't need the lookup table
>
> Package B - Has blessed items, lookup table for all subs that are part
> of the package, or in the inheritance tree.
Ar
At 03:35 PM 8/9/00 -0700, Damien Neil wrote:
>On Wed, Aug 09, 2000 at 03:32:41PM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
> > Each sub has a unique number.
> >
> > Package A - Has nothing blessed, doesn't need the lookup table
> >
> > Package B - Has blessed items, lookup table for all subs that are part
> >
> "DN" == Damien Neil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
DN> For example:
DN> package Dog;
DN> sub bark { }# Index = 0.
DN> sub bite { }# Index = 1.
DN> The Dog vtable now looks like this:
DN> 0 Dog::bark
DN> 1 Dog::bite
DN> Define a couple of subclass
Dan Sugalski wrote:
>
> At 11:27 PM 8/9/00 +1000, Jeremy Howard wrote:
> >5- Compact array storage: RFC still coming
>
> I hope this RFC will be "Arrays should be sparse when possible, and
> compact" and just about nothing else. :)
>
Why?
It also fails, with @ISA mutation.
That's why _all_ subroutines would need a unique hash value.
To paraphrase, All problems can be solved with a suitable amount of
indirection.
> "DN" == Damien Neil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
DN> In this fashion, the object vtable never needs to contai
I just realized, that this isn't an original idea. Objective-C does this.
>From what I recall (hmm, must be close to 10 years now) it had the
same problem in finding the correct c routine to call for any
selector. Where the selector could be implemented in a seperate
objecte file.
Anyone on thi
At 07:07 PM 8/9/00 -0400, Karl Glazebrook wrote:
>Dan Sugalski wrote:
> >
> > At 11:27 PM 8/9/00 +1000, Jeremy Howard wrote:
> > >5- Compact array storage: RFC still coming
> >
> > I hope this RFC will be "Arrays should be sparse when possible, and
> > compact" and just about nothing else. :)
> >
> At 07:07 PM 8/9/00 -0400, Karl Glazebrook wrote:
> >Dan Sugalski wrote:
> > >
> > > At 11:27 PM 8/9/00 +1000, Jeremy Howard wrote:
> > > >5- Compact array storage: RFC still coming
> > >
> > > I hope this RFC will be "Arrays should be sparse when possible, and
> > > compact" and just about nothi
On Wed, 09 Aug 2000 12:03:40 -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
>> >I hope this RFC will be "Arrays should be sparse when possible, and
>> >compact" and just about nothing else. :)
>>
>>You mean, something like hashes?
>
>Nope.
>
>>Faster hashes, maybe, with a hash function optimized for numerical
>>inte
It seems to me that a perl5 program exists as several things:
- pure source code (ASCII or Unicode)
- a stream of tokens from the parser
- a munged stream of tokens from the parser (e.g., use Foo has
become BEGIN { require Foo; Foo->import })
- an unthreaded and unoptimized optree
- a thr
On Wed, 09 Aug 2000, Nathan Torkington wrote:
> It seems to me that a perl5 program exists as several things:
> - pure source code (ASCII or Unicode)
> - a stream of tokens from the parser
> - a munged stream of tokens from the parser (e.g., use Foo has
>become BEGIN { require Foo; Foo->im
The other advantage of typed languages is that the run-time can
be faster, and the storage streamlined.
> There is a drawback: exceptions raised ("That's not an integer!" *croak*)
> are made at run-time, rather than compile-time (as would be more useful).
> As a result you have to test all c
At 05:39 PM 8/9/00 +0200, Bart Lateur wrote:
>On Wed, 09 Aug 2000 09:41:22 -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
>
> >> >> @foo = @bar * 12;
>
> >> @foo = map { $_ * 12 } @bar;
>
> >>I don't see the need for a new notation.
> >
> >Well, compactness for one. With a scalar on one side it's less odd (i
On Wed, 09 Aug 2000 09:41:22 -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
>> >> @foo = @bar * 12;
>> @foo = map { $_ * 12 } @bar;
>>I don't see the need for a new notation.
>
>Well, compactness for one. With a scalar on one side it's less odd (it was
>a bad example). When funkier, though:
>
> @foo =
On Wed, 09 Aug 2000 12:46:32 -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
>> > @foo = @bar * @baz;
>Given that the default action of the multiply routine for an array in
>non-scalar context would be to die, allowing user-overrides of the
>functions would probably be a good idea... :)
[Is this still -internal
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>At 11:40 AM 8/5/00 +, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
>>Damian Conway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> > > It definitely is, since formats do things that can't be done in
>> modules.
>> >
>> >Such as???
>>
>>Quite.
>>
>>Even in perl5 an XS module can do _anyt
David L . Nicol <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>Dan Sugalski wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 8 Aug 2000, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
>> >
>> > this list is _only_ concerned with implementation details.
>>
>> Well, assuming you consider API definitions implementation details. :)
>>
>>
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