Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>At 05:39 PM 8/2/00 +0100, Tim Bunce wrote:
>>On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 12:05:20PM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
>> >
>> > Reference counting is going to be a fun one, that's for sure.
>> >
>> > I'd like the interface to be something like:
>> >
>> >stat = pe
I'm not sure that this is being RFC'd yet, but I know we started to
discuss this subject.
This is how I see it:
Modular Architecture for Perl 6
<> - includes scanner, parser, dynamic loader, flow control,
threading.
The <> loads libraries on demand based upon functional ca
On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 07:30:23PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Joshua N Pritikin wrote:
> > perl5 is interpreter-centric with native code generation
> > bolted on well into the development lifecycle.
>
> I'd prefer us to tackle native code generation using C as the
> intermediate language i
On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 06:19:33PM -1000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Since no-one has mentioned it yet, I just thought I'd point out that the
> Perl Data Language (PDL) has a system for automatically generating XS code
> from a "simpler" interface called PDL::PP.
Good point. Thanks for mentioni
Joshua N Pritikin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 07:30:23PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Joshua N Pritikin wrote:
> > > perl5 is interpreter-centric with native code generation
> > > bolted on well into the development lifecycle.
> >
> > I'd prefer us to tackle native
On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 09:32:10AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Joshua N Pritikin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 07:30:23PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > I'd prefer us to tackle native code generation using C as the
> > > intermediate language instead of a JIT.
A few more clicks and I found:
http://www.cminusminus.org/
--
May the best description of competition prevail.
(via, but not speaking for Deutsche Bank)
Joshua N Pritikin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A few more clicks and I found:
>
> http://www.cminusminus.org/
Thanks, Joshua. Quickie summary. Implementations: one[1] semi-free
(non-DFSG-compliant) complete. Others in progress.
Why not specify as a C extension: I'm still looking for that.
On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 10:33:25AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> ... Quickie summary. Implementations: one[1] semi-free
> (non-DFSG-compliant) complete. Others in progress.
>
> Why not specify as a C extension: I'm still looking for that.
The following paper is recommended over the one pos
John Tobey wrote:
>
> Thanks, Joshua. Quickie summary. Implementations: one[1] semi-free
> (non-DFSG-compliant) complete. Others in progress.
>
> Why not specify as a C extension: I'm still looking for that.
>
> -John
Technical answer: C-- has lots of features that would be difficult to
ha
At 08:04 PM 8/2/00 -0400, Ken Fox wrote:
>Dan Sugalski wrote:
> > TheObj *foo;
> > SV *new_sv;
> > foo = new TheObj("A parameter");
> > sv = perl_new_sv();
> > perl_make_sv_object(sv, "Some::Package", foo, &dispatch_routine,
> > &destroy_ro
At 08:21 PM 8/2/00 -0400, Ken Fox wrote:
>Anyways, this is probably a gross violation of copyright, WIPO, the DMCA
>and innumerable other state and federal laws... but you can find it
>at [Snip]
Got it, thanks.
If anyone else has good references they can point me at (On, say, garbage
collection
--- Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> actual work. The
> dispatch routine has a function signature like so:
>
> int status = dispatch(void *native_obj, sv
> *perl_scalar, char *method_called,
> int *num_args_in, perl_arg_stack
> *arg_stack,
>
Kevin Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> John Tobey wrote:
> >
> > Thanks, Joshua. Quickie summary. Implementations: one[1] semi-free
> > (non-DFSG-compliant) complete. Others in progress.
> >
> > Why not specify as a C extension: I'm still looking for that.
> >
> > -John
>
> Technical answ
At 06:11 PM 8/2/00 -0400, John Tobey wrote:
>Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > At 05:39 PM 8/2/00 -0400, John Tobey wrote:
> > > > A scalar is made an object via a call into the perl library. The
> > > > scalar is marked as an object and stuck into a package. Attached to
> > > > the scal
On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 11:30:40AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'm not sure about this one. My odds-on favorite answer: Picture some
> M$ hackers telling their supervisor they are working on some GCC
> enhancements.
But how do you explain the fact that S. P. Jones uses Latex and cygwin?
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Feel free to define some recommended functions. Give 'em all upper-case
> > > names so they don't get confused with real methods. (I hope) A PERL_
> > prefix
> > > might not be a bad thing either.
> >
> >The only one I feel strongly about here is TYPE
Joshua N Pritikin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 11:30:40AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > I'm not sure about this one. My odds-on favorite answer: Picture some
> > M$ hackers telling their supervisor they are working on some GCC
> > enhancements.
>
> But how do you ex
On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 11:54:46AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Joshua N Pritikin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > But how do you explain the fact that S. P. Jones uses Latex and cygwin?
>
> Easily. He is the hacker, not the supervisor.
>
> It's pretty evident to me that Microsoft and the fr
At 08:22 AM 8/3/00 -0700, Benjamin Stuhl wrote:
>--- Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > actual work. The
> > dispatch routine has a function signature like so:
> >
> > int status = dispatch(void *native_obj, sv
> > *perl_scalar, char *method_called,
> > int *num_ar
At 11:51 AM 8/3/00 -0400, John Tobey wrote:
>Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > Feel free to define some recommended functions. Give 'em all upper-case
> > > > names so they don't get confused with real methods. (I hope) A PERL_
> > > prefix
> > > > might not be a bad thing either.
>
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What, doing a
>
>name = (PMC->vtable[NAME])(PMC);
>
> is inflexible? I'm not talking about embedding data into the vtable, rather
> make one of the table entries a pointer to a function that returns the type
> name.
Oh, cool. I misunderstood you.
There is a Deep C# article (07/20/2000) over at MSDN. But as it states, the
pickings from Microsoft are pretty slim.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/voices/deep07202000.asp
The article points to a 07/13/2000 discussion from the ECMS TC39 meetings:
http://www2.hursley.ibm.com/tc39/mins-13jul00.html#cs
Reposted without permission from http://www.ecma.ch/ecma1/NEWS/NEWS.HTM:
===cut===
Two new projects for ECMA TC39
Microsoft, an Ordinary Member of ECMA, has proposed some new
projects for standardization in ECMA. Negotiations with other
sponsors from within ECMA and from outside are going on. T
Joshua N Pritikin writes:
| If PI does its job then you won't need to use a source level debugger
| very often. As seen from here, that's an *advantage*.
I would go as far as to say that it's spurious. It is safe to assume
that errors will be made, and we should code with that in mind. I'm no
I note that the sample RFC on the web site is for "Safe Signal
Handling", and it references a (currently) fictitious other
RFC, "Event Loop". Is someone working on submitting real RFCs
for these two topics?
--
John Porter
On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 08:22:28AM -0700, Benjamin Stuhl wrote:
> One thing: remember, there is a lot of talk about having
> perl6 use Unicode internally, which means that things like
> method names should be wchar_t * (or whatever).
No, that's the beauty of utf8: the C datatype is still char* an
> "JP" == John Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
JP> I note that the sample RFC on the web site is for "Safe Signal
JP> Handling", and it references a (currently) fictitious other
JP> RFC, "Event Loop". Is someone working on submitting real RFCs
JP> for these two topics?
i am worki
--- Bart Schuller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 08:22:28AM -0700, Benjamin Stuhl
> wrote:
> > One thing: remember, there is a lot of talk about
> having
> > perl6 use Unicode internally, which means that things
> like
> > method names should be wchar_t * (or whatever).
>
>
With Bruno Haible's permission, I'm reposting a portion of our
correspondence. The gist of which is that he'd be willing to make ffcall
available for use with Perl under the LGPL.
Bruno's homepage: http://clisp.cons.org/~haible/packages.html
Paul Moore's FFI.pm: http://www.cpan.org/modules/by-mod
Garrett Goebel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> With Bruno Haible's permission, I'm reposting a portion of our
> correspondence. The gist of which is that he'd be willing to make ffcall
> available for use with Perl under the LGPL.
Great. I suggest that this topic be moved to the library list (or is
On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 01:15:54PM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> >One thing: remember, there is a lot of talk about having
> >perl6 use Unicode internally, which means that things like
> >method names should be wchar_t * (or whatever).
>
> Good point. I shall have to think Unicode more. (UTF-32, a
On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 08:50:56PM +0200, Bart Schuller wrote:
> No, that's the beauty of utf8: the C datatype is still char* and as long
> as you stick to 7-bits ASCII you won't know the difference...
... other than the fact that it's painfully slow to handle. (Wow, middle of a
character! Where
Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 01:15:54PM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> > >One thing: remember, there is a lot of talk about having
> > >perl6 use Unicode internally, which means that things like
> > >method names should be wchar_t * (or whatever).
> >
> > Good p
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 06:11 PM 8/2/00 -0400, John Tobey wrote:
> >Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > At 05:39 PM 8/2/00 -0400, John Tobey wrote:
> > > > > A scalar is made an object via a call into the perl
> > > > > library. The scalar is marked as an object and
>Garrett Goebel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> With Bruno Haible's permission, I'm reposting a portion of our
>> correspondence. The gist of which is that he'd be willing to make ffcall
>> available for use with Perl under the LGPL.
>Great. I suggest that this topic be moved to the library list (
Tom Christiansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Does that mean that we're tossing out all other less onerous licensing
> schemata, like Artistic or BSD, and that consequently Perl is now
> guaranteed to be infested by the infinitely divisive political
> problems and pernicious peculations of rms and
>No, it's a CPAN module.
Oh, good. Someone has a licensing list going--somewhere. So long
as we in the core never do anything with a licence that would scare
anyone away from Perl, then we're fine. People's own software
[read: on CPAN] they make available on their own terms, though, of
course.
On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 09:12:45PM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
> And while were here, does anyone understand kpathsea?
Yes.
> Would it be a win. I think it would.
There's been some amount of talk on one of the sekrit cabal TeX mailing lists
about getting rid of it. I can't see where you'd want
John Tobey wrote:
> Picture this. A Lisp (or Java, ...) structure holds a Perl
> interpreter. A Perl variable holds a reference to the Lisp structure.
> Structure and interpreter become inaccessible to all threads. Perl
> will never know it's done with the Lisp structure, neither Perl nor
> the
I think we are trying to accommodate any of several GC systems to be
selected amongst in future.
Ken Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> John Tobey wrote:
> > Picture this. A Lisp (or Java, ...) structure holds a Perl
> > interpreter. A Perl variable holds a reference to the Lisp structure.
> > St
John Tobey wrote:
> I think we are trying to accommodate any of several GC systems to be
> selected amongst in future.
Then the Perl API needs to allow for the GC to move objects. If that
can't happen, the majority of interesting collectors can't be used.
> Ken Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
Simon Cozens wrote:
> Ref counting isn't garbage collection.
> http://www.jwz.org/doc/gc.html
Please explain that to Richard Jones and Rafael Lins who have
written a beautiful book surveying garbage collectors. Reference
counting is only given about 50 pages or so, but it's the *first*
50 pages..
On Fri, 4 Aug 2000, Ken Fox wrote:
> John Tobey wrote:
...
> There's a lot of talk about doing a mark-sweep collector for perl,
> but I'm not sure adopting a 30 year old obsolete gc algorithm is
> such a good idea. Certainly we have to be careful about moving
> objects, but generational collect
A theory idea I had a while back, which may have been done before, but
heh, may be an idea to consider in this area.
The idea is simple, insert into the parse tree wherever possible a dealloc
call for variables that we know (at compile time) are going out of scope /
no longer referenced. This, a
Kevin Scott wrote:
> Some of the difficulties they had when using C as the back-end for
> functional languages (like Haskell) were:
Appel has said that ML reclaims about 98% of the heap every time
it collects. Functional languages have such a different model that
it doesn't surprise me that C isn
Brock wrote:
> The idea is simple, insert into the parse tree wherever possible a dealloc
> call for variables that we know (at compile time) are going out of scope /
> no longer referenced.
You probably suspected this, but most great ideas have already been
thought of... ;)
Many languages try t
Versions, dear boy. Versions. Don't forget versions.
We will need them.
(This really belongs on -internals. Reply-to: adjusted)
And while were here, does anyone understand kpathsea? Would it be a
win. I think it would.
> "DS" == Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
DS> lexer saw a n
At 08:27 AM 8/3/00 -0400, Tad McClellan wrote:
>On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 10:09:04PM -0600, Nathan Torkington wrote:
> > I'm about to push the button that will send my private set of RFCs
> > off to the archive and mail them to perl6-announce. Fingers crossed.
> >
> > The RFC archive is at http://
What about updating RFCs? Should I increment the version number and send
each new revision to perl-rfc? Do I need to be careful about the RFC
number when submitting updates?
Also, I assumed the intention of the RFCs was to stimulate focused
discussion and to keep a record of the decisions made du
Steve Simmons writes:
> This idea is both important and more general. If we go thru a huge
> discussion of, say, multi-line comments and decide *not* to do it,
> we don't want to have the whole thing repeated with perl 6.1, 7.0,
> etc, etc. When something reaches RFC stage but is rejected, part
Steve Fink writes:
> What about updating RFCs? Should I increment the version number and send
> each new revision to perl-rfc? Do I need to be careful about the RFC
> number when submitting updates?
Yes and yes.
> Also, I assumed the intention of the RFCs was to stimulate focused
> discussion an
On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 11:27:27AM -0600, Nathan Torkington wrote:
> Steve Simmons writes:
> > . . . IMHO the RFC editor should be responsible for this.
>
> IMHO someone should write an RFC on why perl6 should NOT have
> comments. The RFC editor doesn't have time to follow these zillions
> of
On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 10:09:04PM -0600, Nathan Torkington wrote:
> I'm about to push the button that will send my private set of RFCs
> off to the archive and mail them to perl6-announce. Fingers crossed.
>
> The RFC archive is at http://tmtowtdi.perl.org/rfc/
I suggest we zero-pad the RFC
On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 11:40:09PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 10:57:27AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
> > http://windows.oreilly.com/news/hejlsberg_0800.html
>
> Impressive. Quite deeply impressive.
Careful! Don't be overwhelmed by the marketing spin. Don't
under
On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 10:09:04PM -0600, Nathan Torkington wrote:
> In the future, if you want to submit an RFC mail it to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] only. The automated process will send it to
> the correct list as well as to -announce. This will also prevent
> perl6-librarian being CC:ed on followup
> Several people have requested strong typing as a feature, but have been shot
> down with reasons such as "it's un-Perl-like", with an added "it'll slow
> everything down for those who don't want it".
Definitely.
> Unfortunately, accessing and manipulating tied variables is incredibly slow,
> s
On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 11:40:24AM +0900, Simon Cozens wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 07:34:36PM -0700, Nathan Wiger wrote:
> > > That Perl should stay Perl
> > Do we need an RFC for this? Seems like this is more of a "guiding
> > concept" that should be intergrated into everything. Just my o
On Thu, 3 Aug 2000, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
> Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >At 05:39 PM 8/2/00 +0100, Tim Bunce wrote:
> >>On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 12:05:20PM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Reference counting is going to be a fun one, that's for sure.
> >> >
> >> > I'd like
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