On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 19:28:30 -, "Jonathan Worthington"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>- Original Message -
>From: "Pete Lomax" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Jonathan Worthington" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 6:59 PM
>Subject: Re: For info only, open/read broken on 3/1
In order to get the 20x speed gain you seek I assume
that Parrot would have to perform some sort of variable
type inference to distinguish, for example, when a
scalar is really just an integer and use an integer register.
Otherwise, the PMCs in Parrot would perform much the same
as the Python
At Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:23:45 -0500,
Dan Sugalski wrote:
> >It's that last thing I'm worried about. That all thread related
> >things in Parrot are forced to use an extra indirection and
> >consequent performance penalty.
>
> They'll live. Python and Ruby both have a single global interpreter
>
Uri Guttman writes:
> good point. but we definitely would want arrays supported
> with all three scalar types and in both directions. in fact, if we just
> look at what swig (and other similar projects) is able to do we can make
> that stuff easier as well. i recall a minor nightmare when we tried
> "JC" == Jeff Clites <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Dec 23, 2003, at 4:08 PM, Uri Guttman wrote:
>> but it is (just about) one time only work and will save tons of
>> repeated tricky work down the line for those who will embed c libs
>> in parrot. the richer this api is, the less p
On Dec 23, 2003, at 4:08 PM, Uri Guttman wrote:
"DS" == Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Speaking personally, being able to automatically convert a Parrot
array
to an array of ints or floats would be very useful, but that's
because I
do fairly hard-core number crunching in my day job. W
Uri Guttman wrote:
"RA" == Rod Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Except then the client wanted it to work under Win32, where I've
never trusted any of the pseudo-forks that perl did (esp with
Network I/O going on). So I rewrote the whole thing in a language
that supported threads.
other than the fo
At 6:15 PM -0500 12/23/03, Simon Glover wrote:
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003, Uri Guttman wrote:
> "RA" == Rod Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> A major use of many languages these days is web services.
> In the parrot world, I see three possible ways for this to happen.
> - CGI/Exec. No pr
At 6:45 PM -0500 12/23/03, Simon Glover wrote:
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003, Dan Sugalski wrote:
At 6:07 PM -0500 12/23/03, Simon Glover wrote:
>On Tue, 23 Dec 2003, Dan Sugalski wrote:
>
>> I'm pondering, once again, more things with the Postgres interface.
>> In this case I need to pass in arrays
> "DS" == Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> Speaking personally, being able to automatically convert a Parrot array
>> to an array of ints or floats would be very useful, but that's because I
>> do fairly hard-core number crunching in my day job. What are the
>> arguments aga
> "RA" == Rod Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> What's the problem with doing this in an event loop? Step 2. I've
> had times where this was intensive enough that Step 1 happening for
> other sites were dropping tcp connections. Forking didn't work well,
> because I needed to mark th
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> At 6:07 PM -0500 12/23/03, Simon Glover wrote:
> >On Tue, 23 Dec 2003, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> >
> >> I'm pondering, once again, more things with the Postgres interface.
> >> In this case I need to pass in arrays of ints (and floats, I suppose)
> >> and
At 3:54 PM -0600 12/23/03, Rod Adams wrote:
Dan Sugalski wrote:
They'll live. Python and Ruby both have a single global interpreter
lock and nobody much cares.
People won't move to parrot because of signal or thread support, or
because we give them a cookie. People will move to parrot because
At 6:07 PM -0500 12/23/03, Simon Glover wrote:
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003, Dan Sugalski wrote:
I'm pondering, once again, more things with the Postgres interface.
In this case I need to pass in arrays of ints (and floats, I suppose)
and arrays of char pointers. My first thought is to have a new type
Uri Guttman wrote:
"RA" == Rod Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
that is not the only way as i have pointed out. it is just a way that is
promoted heavily (like java). events if done correctly are generaly
faster than threads and use much less ram (no stack context created for
each thread). and blo
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003, Uri Guttman wrote:
> > "RA" == Rod Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > A major use of many languages these days is web services.
> > In the parrot world, I see three possible ways for this to happen.
>
> > - CGI/Exec. No problem to make parrot work, but the pe
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> I'm pondering, once again, more things with the Postgres interface.
> In this case I need to pass in arrays of ints (and floats, I suppose)
> and arrays of char pointers. My first thought is to have a new type
> that converts an Array (or something li
> "RA" == Rod Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> A major use of many languages these days is web services.
> In the parrot world, I see three possible ways for this to happen.
> - CGI/Exec. No problem to make parrot work, but the performance issues
> with this are well known.
> -
> "DS" == Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I'm pondering, once again, more things with the Postgres interface. In
> this case I need to pass in arrays of ints (and floats, I suppose) and
> arrays of char pointers. My first thought is to have a new type that
> converts an Arra
Dan Sugalski wrote:
They'll live. Python and Ruby both have a single global interpreter lock
and nobody much cares.
People won't move to parrot because of signal or thread support, or
because we give them a cookie. People will move to parrot because it
runs perl 6, or because it gives them cro
I'm pondering, once again, more things with the Postgres interface.
In this case I need to pass in arrays of ints (and floats, I suppose)
and arrays of char pointers. My first thought is to have a new type
that converts an Array (or something like it) to a C array, either of
ints or char pointe
At 09:44 -0500 2003/12/23, Dan Sugalski wrote:
>
>Yep, as well as in the LICENSE file in the main directory, and a couple of other
>places. I should probably put together a cron job to mail off a monthly reminder to
>the list as well, but that might be a bit of overkill.
In view of SCO's recent
At 10:06 AM +0100 12/23/03, Leopold Toetsch wrote:
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
At 10:09 PM +0100 12/22/03, Leopold Toetsch wrote:
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
8) We're probably going to have to rejig the string functions some,
Can you elaborate on that a bit more? String
At 9:49 AM +0100 12/23/03, Elizabeth Mattijsen wrote:
At 14:16 -0500 12/22/03, Dan Sugalski wrote:
At 8:05 PM +0100 12/22/03, Elizabeth Mattijsen wrote:
In Perl 5, the sharedness of a variable can be determined at
run-time. Leo's mentioned that a PMC will never change its
address during its life
From: "Leopold Toetsch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Vladimir Lipsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Ah, that's the reason for your bug report WRT JIT/NCI. The question is,
> >> how can we detect the presence of the exec-shield patch. Your
`uname -a`
> >> doesn't indicate it.
>
> > What for? We just alwa
At 10:07 AM 12/23/2003 +0100, Elizabeth Mattijsen wrote:
I think I agree with you in spirit, that we should have high expectations
for Parrot and hopefully make the scripting
languages that we are running more realistic as all-around programming
languages.
Eh, I think you should cross out the "ho
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:16:45 +0100, Leopold Toetsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Pete Lomax <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I've opened a few files, using P0, and saved a copy of P0 in P4[n].
>> I was planning on chucking say 0 or -1 in P4[n] when I closed the
>> file, but it won't let me do this. (s
At 10:24 PM -0800 12/22/03, Jeff Clites wrote:
On Dec 22, 2003, at 6:57 AM, Dan Sugalski wrote:
At 11:44 AM -0800 12/20/03, Jeff Clites wrote:
On Dec 20, 2003, at 1:54 AM, Leopold Toetsch wrote:
Jeff Clites <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The issue turns out to be that SIGFPE isn't raised on Mac OS X
At 12:15 AM + 12/23/03, Harry Jackson wrote:
Dan Sugalski wrote:
We're starting to check in library code, which brings up the
annoying issue of licensing. Since we haven't been able to go the
easy (i.e. all public domain) route for parrot we need to deal with
this.
The license on Parrot its
At 2:28 PM -0800 12/22/03, Joe Wilson wrote:
Grotty bits? Can you be more specific?
What Python features or idioms do you believe Parrot will run faster
than the CLR?
Amongst other things, python allows for dynamic addition and deletion
of object attributes (or what we're calling attributes--per-o
Peter Gibbs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Leopold Toetsch wrote:
>> So we need:
>>
>> 1) a config test/option/whatever (e.g. mallocing some mem, fill in a
>> "ret" instruction and call that.
>> 2) Some means to allocate executable memory.
>>
>> Could you please have a look at fedora (kernel) docs?
Vladimir Lipsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Ah, that's the reason for your bug report WRT JIT/NCI. The question is,
>> how can we detect the presence of the exec-shield patch. Your `uname -a`
>> doesn't indicate it.
> What for? We just always do allocating memory from a JIT dedicated heap with
>
Leopold Toetsch wrote:
> So we need:
>
> 1) a config test/option/whatever (e.g. mallocing some mem, fill in a
> "ret" instruction and call that.
> 2) Some means to allocate executable memory.
>
> Could you please have a look at fedora (kernel) docs?
There are two ways to flag memory as executable
We would need some config improvements:
1) Integer divide by zero
- does the platform generate SIGFPE
- a config variable for the result
Then (beyond config)
- if yes: enable signal handler for SIGFPE
- if no: wrap integer divide/modulo ops into a checking wrapper, that
throws an exc
> Ah, that's the reason for your bug report WRT JIT/NCI. The question is,
> how can we detect the presence of the exec-shield patch. Your `uname -a`
> doesn't indicate it.
What for? We just always do allocating memory from a JIT dedicated heap with
execute flas set on it, no matter the presence of
Peter Gibbs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Leopold Toetsch wrote:
>> JIT code is run in malloc'ed memory (s. jit.c:1026) as well as JITted
>> NCI stubs. We already have some system specific stuff for JIT (some
>> architectures need a page flush before execution).
>>
>> So best would be to use a set
On Tue, Dec 23, 2003 at 11:07:53AM +0100, Elizabeth Mattijsen wrote:
> At 10:37 +0100 12/23/03, Leopold Toetsch wrote:
> >2) the Perl5ish declaration
> >
> > my $var : shared;
> >
> > is basically:
> >
> > $P0 = new SharedPerlUndef;
> >
> > OTOH:
> >
> > share($var);
> >
> > may n
Leopold Toetsch wrote:
> JIT code is run in malloc'ed memory (s. jit.c:1026) as well as JITted
> NCI stubs. We already have some system specific stuff for JIT (some
> architectures need a page flush before execution).
>
> So best would be to use a set of spcialized function, e.g.:
> - mem_alloc_ex
At 10:37 +0100 12/23/03, Leopold Toetsch wrote:
2) the Perl5ish declaration
my $var : shared;
is basically:
$P0 = new SharedPerlUndef;
OTOH:
share($var);
may need to morph $var into a shared reference, with an additional
indirection and memory overhead.
(I don't kno
Elizabeth Mattijsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 14:16 -0500 12/22/03, Dan Sugalski wrote:
>>Yes. Making a PMC shared can be as simple as swapping out the vtable
>>pointer in the PMC structure--no need to move it around at all. (Or,
>>worst case, turning the PMC into a reference PMC for the actu
Pete Lomax <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've opened a few files, using P0, and saved a copy of P0 in P4[n].
> I was planning on chucking say 0 or -1 in P4[n] when I closed the
> file, but it won't let me do this. (set_integer_native not implemented
> in class parrotIO) I hope there is something pla
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 10:09 PM +0100 12/22/03, Leopold Toetsch wrote:
>>Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> 8) We're probably going to have to rejig the string functions some,
>>Can you elaborate on that a bit more? Strings are (as any other managed
>>parrot reso
Jonathan Worthington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> I was looking over the WinXP Service Pack 2 "Changes to functionality"
> document, which you can get here:-
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/prodtechn
> ol/winxppro/maintain/winxpsp2.asp (download availabl
At 19:03 -0500 12/22/03, Melvin Smith wrote:
At 11:59 PM 12/22/2003 +0100, Elizabeth Mattijsen wrote:
events or whatever, are an integral part of the system. What
Perl, Python and Ruby programs do now, should carry less weight
than what all of these systems, and who knows what other languages
At 14:16 -0500 12/22/03, Dan Sugalski wrote:
At 8:05 PM +0100 12/22/03, Elizabeth Mattijsen wrote:
In Perl 5, the sharedness of a variable can be determined at
run-time. Leo's mentioned that a PMC will never change its address
during its lifetime. Can these two requirements be met if there
are
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