Darren Duncan wrote:
The named filesystem roots can be defined or altered at runtime by Perl
code, and each one is defined within the context of another.
I should clarify my intention here, which is that each DOI is mapped behind the
scenes by Perl to a standalone absolute filesystem url, and
Jon Lang wrote:
'home' should be spelled '~'.
Yes, of course. And conceptually a DOI can be any string at all. Logically
we'd probably have non-alpha names for many of the common/standard ones. --
Darren Duncan
<$_>.delete for «file "more files"»;
# Now there are no more file:// roots, cannot access any files
$IO::Root = "http://localhost/~david/";;
# Now can access only URLs from my section of the local website
Hm, having just written that, it obviously should be the case that
$IO::Root should be a hash with all the available "file:" roots,
i.e. $IO::Root is a hash-of-hashes where the keys are
{protocol-name}{arbitrary-name}. And the default arbitrary-name might
just be "default".
-- Darren Duncan
her enhance "ver", such as with
":ver", and that *might* be superior to my first proposal for
longetivity and flexibility, but truly now I think my first suggestion of adding
"branch" and leaving "ver" and "auth" as is would be better.
So, what do the rest of you think about this?
-- Darren Duncan
Moritz Lenz wrote:
Darren Duncan wrote:
The question I have is what to do when a single same authority wants to release
multiple forks or branches of the same module,
It splits up into multiple authorities, conceptually. For example for
the development branches for perl5 one could write :auth
, the simpler/terse looking numeric operators like "/" should
produce exact results from exact inputs where possible, and leave the inexact
(float) results from exact inputs to more complex/verbose looking operators.
Much appreciated.
-- Darren Duncan
Patrick R. Michaud wrote:
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 01:28:08PM -0700, Darren Duncan wrote:
This is a great move; thanks for this change.
So now writing things like 5/43 in code will DWIM and produce a Rat which
maintains the intended value exactly, with no floating-point imprecision;
and so
y, I propose that .pl6 is better than .p6, because
that more clearly states that we're talking about Perl 6 and not say Python 6 or
Pascal 6 or PHP 6 or whatever, all of which already have filename extensions
starting with "p" and that differ by other letters or lack thereof.
-- Darren Duncan
an analogy of Perl's "require"
would be used instead to bring in other modules, at runtime.
-- Darren Duncan
es, such as when displaying it.
-- Darren Duncan
Carl Mäsak wrote:
> Darren (>), commit-bot (>>):
>>> -=head2 Time
>>> +=head1 Current Time
>>> +The epoch used in Perl 6 to represent time instants is the
>>> +International Atomic Time - TAI - which is independent of calendars,
>>> +t
stems which cannot provide a steady
time base, such as POSIX systems, will simply have to make their best guess as
to the correct atomic time."
This said, the S02 definition should be made more specific as to whether it is
counting from the 1958 epoch or the 1977 one; presumably the former is implied
now if it says "TAI".
-- Darren Duncan
ning that I prefer, so it is
an error if the meaning you picked is chosen.
-- Darren Duncan
Darren Duncan wrote:
I think that it would be better to pick the other meaning of C<^4>
instead, meaning C<0..3>, because that keeps the meaning of "^"
consistent as "up to but not including". Then also saying ^4 means you
get a range of 4 elements, so there
cularly good that you're backing up what
you say in general with data, so its easier to trust, verify, and convince. And
graphs are easy to absorb / make an impact.
I hope you're going to post another draft between now and the talk, so people
can review it again post changes.
-- Darren Duncan
Damian Conway wrote:
Darren Duncan wrote:
pg 36 - About the "Perl Best Practices" book, you should be clear to
mention that what is considered best practices has evolved significantly
since that book came out, so teams can't simply agree on "We'll just follow
PBP guid
t a porter initially just tries the immutable role and V2, and
ignores V1 and the mutable role for now, as it is a lot easier to implement this
thing when you don't have to worry about deep copying.
The current Set::Relation is licensed LGPLv3+ but I am willing to relicense it
to Artistic
e a reference to a mutable
object, but cannot change its C<.WHICH> identity. In contrast,
the value may be rebound to a different object, just as a hash
element may.)
So given that PairSet is mutable as a whole (while PairValSet is immutable), can
you please clarify the difference between PairSet and Hash, both of which have
immutable keys and mutable values?
Thank you. -- Darren Duncan
Jon Lang wrote:
Darren Duncan wrote:
On another tangent, since I'm not sure that Blob literals have been defined
in Perl 6 yet, I suggest something that combines aspects of numeric and
character string literals, meaning a radix prefix plus string quotes; for
example:
0b'1100100101&
ould
have to always use the same physical representation for all objects of the same
class, or else it wouldn't always DWIM when some one tries an exact equality
test with objects.
-- Darren Duncan
tangle, Rhombus, Square, each declaring a possrep.
It may be good to disallow the same possrep names used by multiple members or a
hierarchy, or have a disambiguation mechanism as with methods / multis.
12. Subtypes are never required to add possreps, and by default they'd just
work in terms of the parent's possreps.
So in some ways, as Jon suggested, this is a lot like multis.
-- Darren Duncan
if not then what could be done about it?
Also, in what Synopsis is it documented what the methods are to extract the
endpoints et al from a Range object. Or what are they called?
Thank you in advance.
-- Darren Duncan
eclaring the objects goes. For example, "Range of Instant"
or "Range of DateTime" should be a sufficient type declaration for a date range
type, rather than needing to come up with something special, unless that special
thing is just an alias for the above.
So those are some thoughts. I probably have more.
-- Darren Duncan
Moritz Lenz wrote:
Darren Duncan wrote:
However, I still don't see how one would retrieve the distinction between say
"1..10" and "1^..^10". I suggest that an extra 2 methods such as
.min_is_outside and .max_is_outside (each returns a Bool) could fit the bill,
and
does role Y, wouldn't be possible. Perhaps a better
example is "Num.new(...)" works but "Numeric.new(...)" doesn't. -- Darren Duncan
but I think being able to do what I stated would go
further to let more users have what they want than under-serving a large number
in favor of another large number.
-- Darren Duncan
I agree with TSa's comments in general. Make "Int" and "Rat" the roles, and
people who don't care about precision-affected semantics can invoke those. Let
the longer names be for the implementing classes, invoked directly by people who
do care about precision
ld be wrong. -- Darren Duncan
Richard Hainsworth wrote:
Just got error from new clone rakudo directory, Viz.
rich...@jupiter:~/Development$ git clone git://github.com/rakudo/rakudo.git
Initialized empty Git repository in /home/richard/Development/rakudo/.git/
remote: Counting objects: 22035, done.
r
egers are advantages both for being efficient with common pathological
cases such as very large or very small rationals with a small amount of
precision, such as the above, as well as for exactly reflecting the concept of a
radix-agnostic floating-point number.
Thank you. -- Darren Duncan
Moritz Lenz wrote:
On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:33:35AM -0800, Darren Duncan wrote:
For example, say I want the following expression to result in a FatRat
because presumably that's the only type which will represent the result
value exactly:
45207196 * 10 ** -37
How should that be sp
pugs-comm...@feather.perl6.nl wrote:
Author: lwall
Date: 2009-11-19 05:34:29 +0100 (Thu, 19 Nov 2009)
New Revision: 29129
Modified:
docs/Perl6/Spec/S04-control.pod
Log:
[S04] as several folks have suggested, rename "blorst" to "blast"
Modified: docs/Perl6/Spec/S04-control.pod
==
Darren Duncan wrote:
Moritz Lenz wrote:
FatRat.new(45207196, 10**37);
And note that a decimal-specific answer isn't what I want, since I
want something that would also work for this:
45207196 * 11 ** -37
FatRat.new(45207196, 11**37);
Solomon Foster wrote:
What's your ob
helpful error message, such as it does for Perl 5's "=~" to catch
brainos?
If you mean the latter, is there some central place (say in Synopsis 2) that
talks about this, such as in a "terminology" section? "When the Perl 6 spec
uses the word ... it means ..."
-- Darren Duncan
Larry Wall wrote:
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:22:17PM -0800, Darren Duncan wrote:
pugs-comm...@feather.perl6.nl wrote:
@@ -1020,22 +1018,17 @@
C<< prefix: >>
-Coerces to type C. Floor semantics are used for fractional
-values, including strings that appear to express fract
learned something new from it, like the existence of a new parrot-users
discussion list, a good targeted environment for people using Parrot to
implement languages, without the details of Parrot internals development.
-- Darren Duncan
27;t even exist, except to allocate a slot for each
such attribute.)
That's great! The previous behavior was foolish, relying on assumptions that
aren't generally true, and the new version is much better. -- Darren Duncan
isn't actually typing "Int" in
any form as much as they otherwise could be thanks to "*" (whatever).
So can I go and change all bare "Inf" to "+Inf" in the synopsis or is there a
good reason to have both versions?
-- Darren Duncan
nk it makes sense for C to
evaluate to False for a negative number. -- Darren Duncan
t thing, such as to ask
"what are this Seq's reified elements" or "swap out the Seq's generator code
with this one", but allowing such suggests that all bets are off anyway.
-- Darren Duncan
Darren Duncan wrote on 2010 Jan 23:
pugs-comm...@feather.perl6.nl wrote:
Author: lwall
Date: 2010-01-23 15:43:40 +0100 (Sat, 23 Jan 2010)
New Revision: 29582
As a follow-up to the above, I re-raised the issue on IRC today and got a
response there; I've copied the most relevant portions
so says the
spec's TODO file.)
If you want to discuss that further you may best do it elsewhere as strictly
speaking it is not on topic for Perl-6-Language.
-- Darren Duncan
Darren Duncan wrote:
Giuseppe Castagna wrote:
G. Castagna: Covariance and contravariance: conflict without a cause.
ACM Transactions on Programming Languages and Systems, vol. 17, n. 3,
pag. 431-447, 1995.
Is there an electronic copy of this that you can link to?
Ah, spoke too soon. An
-defined what a more minimal
Perl 6 may consist of. I suggest plain ASCII be the minimum and everything more
is optional. And pluggable.
Making the big complicated charsets optional and pluggable is good, I think.
-- Darren Duncan
ion, except for the big one that any literal continuation chars
inside a quoted string are taken as normal characters as usual.
So can we please have this continuation marker thing, and what do you think it
should look like?
Thank you in advance.
-- Darren Duncan
t;;
... same as this does:
my $baz = 564345\ 242432;
Thank you.
-- Darren Duncan
lly the examples you raised will be
commonly supported as compile-time constants in Perl 6 implementations.
-- Darren Duncan
it.
Now if naming my concept "unspace" may confuse people, as it is partially like
that of Perl 6 but partly not, I could name it something else, but that name
seemed the best for now, because it is all about letting a programmer put some
whitespace in their code which the parser would then treat as if it wasn't there
at all.
-- Darren Duncan
tp://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/docs/Perl6
... of which the subdir /Spec contains the actual Synopsis docs.
The subversion root ends at /pugs but I don't need the parent dirs to just work
with the Perl 6 spec.
You need to have an account with the Pugs repo to commit changes.
-- Darren Duncan
o an ordinary Positional-doing parameter.
Hmm ... "Ordering" ... I didn't notice the existence of that type before, and
will have to look it up. Just from the above context I assume it is a closure
having 2 main positional parameters and resulting in an Order value.
-- Darren Duncan
ostensibly in
case users want to declare their own classes like them.
So, would Int actually have any of its own methods, or would they *all* be
provided by Integral? Likewise with Bool and Boolean? And so on.
-- Darren Duncan
#x27;re ascribing, and "integer" seems to be
much more common, when referring to these things.
That is, unless you're specifically going for "integral domain" as what Integral
is meant to cover. Is that it?
So is there a specific reason or three that Integral is better than Integer or
is it really a wash? Is anyone opposed to renaming Integral to Integer?
Besides my inclination to think that some roles are better off looking like
nouns when possible, it seems that most literature searches for the term
"integral" bring up calculus operations, such as integration is seemingly a much
more commonly used interpretation of the term "integral", and so "integer" may
lessen confusion there. Maybe.
-- Darren Duncan
we're going more for nouns or adjectives role names.
(Note, any replies to this follow-up message should be tacked on as a reply to
the initial one.)
Thank you.
-- Darren Duncan
Jon, thanks for your feedback; it was both informative and supportive.
Jon Lang wrote:
Darren Duncan wrote:
2. There doesn't seem to be a role for "complex" as there is for "integer"
or "rational" or "real" or "numeric". So, if th
ce:
1+3\ i;
So the question is about whether this example should be kept as still valid code
or whether it is now invalid and a fossil?
I suspect it *is* still valid, at least if this by itself:
3i
... is a valid literal denoting <0+3i>, but wanted to check.
-- Darren Duncan
Ordinal
Integral
Boolean, Order
Real, Rational
Stringy
Discrete
Ordinal
Integral
Boolean, Order
Gaussian
A distinction between Ordered and Ordinal is that only Ordinal provides pred()
and succ() while both provide before(), after(), etc.
So, some thoughts.
-- Darren Duncan
ty, and the core stays simpler.
-- Darren Duncan
her any choices would be appropriate for a
relation type to compose. Of course, we also come back to the question as to
whether what boolean algebra has evolved into is something that would be fitting
in the Perl core or be best left to modules. -- Darren Duncan
some ways, having Parrot release
announcements on p6l is about as relevant as having Perl 5 release announcements
on mailing lists for individual Perl modules, or DBI release announcements on
the DBIx-Class list, say. -- Darren Duncan
Darren Duncan wrote:
Richard Hainsworth wrote:
Is there a glitch in the mail list system for p6l? I got the
Copenhagen release announcement on the parrot developers list but not
on p6l.
Maybe there aren't Parrot release announcements on p6l because they
aren't as directly relevant
Will Coleda wrote:
On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 4:00 AM, Darren Duncan wrote:
Richard Hainsworth wrote:
Is there a glitch in the mail list system for p6l? I got the Copenhagen
release announcement on the parrot developers list but not on p6l.
Maybe there aren't Parrot release announcements o
ince
the version they require comes out.
That's what I suggest for calendar 2010, starting with Rakudo * which as it
happens would correspond to Parrot 2.3 if released in April; make that the
oldest emulatable version, if you want to do that. And then re-evaluate or
change the support strategy a year later.
-- Darren Duncan
keyword...
but that doesn't have any explicit support from the spec, and the
'trusts' keyword hasn't been realized in any Perl 6 implementation so
far.
I seem to recall that Pugs did support 'trusts' a few years ago, and that I used
it. But I could be wrong. -- Darren Duncan
Carl Mäsak wrote:
Carl (>>), Darren (>):
[...] and the
'trusts' keyword hasn't been realized in any Perl 6 implementation so
far.
I seem to recall that Pugs did support 'trusts' a few years ago, and that I
used it. But I could be wrong. -- Darren Duncan
to be very
important but best used for limited cases like what I mentioned. -- Darren Duncan
Sean Hunt wrote:
On 03/26/2010 04:16 PM, Jason Switzer wrote:
Also, this discussion of "trusts" piqued my interest; this sounds like
a bad
idea. Those of you who have worked extensively with C+
imply comparing first the absolute value of the two numbers, and then saying
that either the positive or negative version orders first.
-- Darren Duncan
n't have a predefined order. I just raised
my algorithm since someone else raised another one. -- Darren Duncan
Martin D Kealey wrote:
On Mar 27, 2010, at 15:43 , Darren Duncan wrote:
For example, say you want to define a graph of some kind, and for
elegance you have a separate container and node and side classes,
On Sat, 27 Mar 2010, Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH wrote:
This sounds like a hackaround for
conds if we're supporting fractional seconds is preferred in
Synopsis 2, and I agree; if people think otherwise, then what is the rationale?
-- Darren Duncan
Jonathan Worthington wrote:
Darren Duncan wrote:
Dave Rolsky wrote:
On a smaller point, I think second vs whole_second is the wrong
Huffman coding. I'd think most people want the integer value.
Well, whatever you call things, the most important thing is to keep
the seconds count as a s
ens, but not
mix and match, unless there is a conceptual distinction between things named
with the different styles that are worth highlighting by using different styles;
barring that, such an inconsistency in Temporal may be something that should be
fixed.
-- Darren Duncan
P.S. My Muldis D lang
sitive, as AFAIK Perl 6 currently is; if something looks
different, it is different. -- Darren Duncan
I believe that any character at all is allowed in a variable name.
Its just that for most characters, when you use them the variable name has to
be quoted. The common unquoted identifier syntax is much more limited, and is
mainly what was being discussed here.
-- Darren Duncan
s possible.
This brings up a new discussion point though: We should come out with a list of
distinct timelines/calendars and canonical names for them with respect to Perl
6. So to at least help those who are trying to use the exact same calendar to
recognize that they are doing so.
-- Darren Duncan
Jon Lang wrote:
Darren Duncan wrote:
I think that the most thorough solution is to just take it for granted that
there are multiple reference timelines/calendars and that in general it is
impossible to reconcile them with each other.
Taking this to its logical extreme, there might be a few
the current datetime, and the
module can introspect its result or calendar() and figure out how to map that to
the internal representation or API it wants to use, as well as figure out the
proper way to invoke sleep().
-- Darren Duncan
Darren Duncan wrote:
Jon Lang wrote:
We _should_ define
Jan Ingvoldstad wrote:
On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 00:46, Darren Duncan wrote:
All details specific to any calendar, including Gregorian, including
concepts like seconds or hours or days, should be left out of the core and
be provided by separate modules. Said modules can be self-contained, just
rious media and forums. Support is welcome in providing
significant financial sponsorship towards my further work, in which case you
have more of a say in its direction and priorities. But mainly I want to see it
get used to enrich projects and their users and developers.
This project and ancillary projects are a serious endeavor that I intend to
commercially support over the long term, and others can do likewise.
Good day. -- Darren Duncan
ense (than comparing Weight and
Distance) to compare a Manager with an Employee since that can tell you if they
are the same Person. It depends on what kind of equality test you are looking
to do, at what level of abstraction. -- Darren Duncan
, so why not?
Or otherwise clarify what Buf and Blob each are.
-- Darren Duncan
So, is "Rakudo Star" meant to be a parallel release series, sort of like Perl
5.12.x vs 5.13.x are now, or are the monthly Rakudo releases we've been seeing
going to be named "Star" at some point? I thought I read recently that "Star"
would be coming in June. -- Darren Duncan
Stefan O'Rear wrote:
On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 04:55:38PM -0700, Darren Duncan wrote:
So, is "Rakudo Star" meant to be a parallel release series, sort of like
Perl 5.12.x vs 5.13.x are now, or are the monthly Rakudo releases we've
been seeing going to be named "Star&quo
ile time, but if the argument is a variable, they have to look
further out.
-- Darren Duncan
ile-time testing isn't essential, it was probably further down the
priority queue of the Rakudo developers. It very much should be done, and
relatively soon, but so far it was quite reasonable to have waited. -- Darren Duncan
files.
I also recommend against the older "gettext" (name?) design that involved having
one language's text inside the program code and using that as a key for others.
I prefer the more self-consistent design that I proposed.
-- Darren Duncan
ions, to handle some edge cases where nothing else
will do. That module isn't exactly what Darren is looking for since
the keys are English strings with a little meta-language mixed in, but
the rest of it is worth referencing.
Functions are fine. My main point is that all languages are treat
versus ones without.
Or maybe this was an early development that later went away?
-- Darren Duncan
and a string.
There is also still the need to cover something that looks like a list of
integers, for the general case of a Blob/Buf literal, and yet it should have an
appearance more like that of a scalar/number/string/etc than of an array/etc.
Any thoughts on this?
-- Darren Duncan
type or role named "Bridge", such that "Bridge" would be casting
as such? Because if not, I would think you'd want the method to not be
capitalized, unless there is some other precedent for doing so. -- Darren Duncan
should be
"value" types.
If you want to derive a DateTime from another, say, then just have the
pseudo-mutator method return a new object with the differences.
-- Darren Duncan
use "..." instead; ".." should not be overloaded
for that.
If there were to be any similar pragma, then it should control matters like
"collation", or what nationality/etc-specific subtype of Str the 'aa' and 'bb'
are blessed into on definition, so that their collation/sorting/etc rules can be
applied when figuring out if a particular $foo~~$bar..$baz is TRUE or not.
-- Darren Duncan
Darren Duncan wrote:
specific, the generic "eqv" operator, or "before" etc would have to be
Correction, I meant to say "cmp", not "eqv", here. -- Darren Duncan
have thought this would be reasonable:
3 ~~ 1..5 # TRUE
So if that doesn't work, then what is the canonical way to ask if a value is in
a range?
Would any of these be reasonable?
3 ~~ any(1..5)
3 in 1..5
3 ∈ 1..5 # Unicode alternative
-- Darren Duncan
, not dependent on any language besides themselves and
C. -- Darren Duncan
ot; is that the endpoints are comparable, meaning "$foo cmp $bar"
works. Having a .pred or .succ for $foo|$bar should not be required to define a
range but only to use that range as a generator. -- Darren Duncan
. Besides comparing ranges, an interval
would also often be used for a membership test, eg "$a <= $x <= $b" would
alternately be spelled "$x ~~ $a..$b" for example. I would imagine that the
interval use would be more common than the generator use in some problem
domains. -- Darren Duncan
Darren Duncan wrote:
Aaron Sherman wrote:
The more I look at this, the more I think ".." and "..." are reversed.
I would rather that ".." stay with intervals and "..." with generators.
Another thing to consider if one is looking at huffmanization
Dave Whipp wrote:
Similarly (0..1).Seq should most likely return Real numbers
No it shouldn't, because the endpoints are integers.
If you want Real numbers, then say "0.0 .. 1.0" instead.
-- Darren Duncan
other order.
So then, "a" cmp "ส้" is always defined, but users can change the definition.
-- Darren Duncan
s the best way to distribute Perl 6 modules these days?
-- Darren Duncan
Tadeusz Sośnierz wrote [off-list]:
On 29-07-2010 14:37:54, Darren Duncan wrote:
Now that, with Rakudo Star, it is relatively straightforward to
install and use Perl 6, I'm wondering about the next step.
I want to start writing and distributing Perl 6 modules in an easily
installable bu
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