Hi all,
Many of you are familiar with the error during `make' of recent pugs:
In file included from /usr/lib/perl/5.8/CORE/op.h:496,
from /usr/lib/perl/5.8/CORE/perl.h:2600,
from src/perl5/perl5.h:3,
from /tmp/ghc23619.hc:6:
/usr/lib/perl/5
Brent 'Dax' Royal-Gordon wrote:
Sam Vilain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Has anyone got any more information to add to this problem? I'm
particularly interested to know which platforms it affects.
It seems to affect Debian and derivatives (including my distribution,
Ubunt
Maxim Sloyko wrote:
But this is not the point. The point was that usage of some file with
passwords by *DEFAULT* is not the way to go, IMHO. It raises more
problems than it solves.
Can you give an example of such a problem that wasn't already there?
Just to be clear, the file would only need
Piers Cawley wrote:
Then the harness that actually sets up the application would simply do
use Logger::DBI :dsn<...>, :user<...>, :password<>
and Logger::DBI would install itself as the default Logger class.
The question is, how does one write Injected to make this work? Or what
features
Salvador Ortiz Garcia wrote:
In the ghc docs I found that "-Dsymbol=value" does not affect -D macros
passed to the C compiler when compiling via C, the mode used when
optimization is on.
So the perl5 ccflags defined must be passed using -optc.
[...]
-$ccdlflags .= qq[ -optl "$_" ]
Darren Duncan wrote:
I should emphasize that I never expected to be able to send any type of
ASTs over the pipe to the database. They would still be interpreted by
the database driver for Perl and/or a wrapper thereon, into the database
native format. Its just that, to an application, it woul
Dean Arnold wrote:
RE: LOBs and "SQL Parse Trees": having recently implemented
LOB support for a JDBC driver (and soon for a DBD), I can assure
you that SQL parse trees are unneeded to support them. For databases
Great!
Perhaps you can shed some light on how to do it for this, then.
SQL comma
Yuval Kogman wrote:
By the way, a nice use case for using the rules engine could be
"parsing" a stream of SAX events into a structure... XML::Simple in
perl6 could be really as simple as it sounds =)
Can anyone see this being retrofitted on top of current rules
semantics? How does PGE relate to t
Dean Arnold wrote:
Column 3 is a BYTEA column in Pg and needs special peppering to work.
What sort of "peppering" ? DBI provides SQL_BLOB, and SQL_CLOB
type descriptors (as well as SQL_BLOB_LOCATOR and SQL_CLOB_LOCATOR), so
presumably DBD::Pg (or any other DBD supporting LOBs) provides the
logic
Larry Wall wrote:
In addition to what chromatic said, I'd like to point out that you've
got the abstraction levels backwards by my lights: these days I
tend to think of the class as a restricted form of role. A class is
restricted to having to provide a working interface to real objects.
Can I
Yuval Kogman wrote:
everyone gets to choose, and another thing I have in mind is the
Transactional role...
DBI::Handle does Transactional;
To the STM rollbacker and type checker thingy this means that any IO
performed by DBI::Handle invoked code is OK - it can be reversed
using the Transa
Say I make an "accessor" method for an attribute that doesn't really
'exist'.
For instance, a good example of this is the "month_0" vs "month"
properties on a date object; I want to make both look equivalent as
real properties, but without the users of the class knowing which
one is the "real" on
Larry Wall wrote:
> > Users of the class includes people subclassing the class, so to them
> > they need to be able to use $.month_0 and $.month, even though there
> > is no "has $.month_0" declared in the Class implementation, only
> > "has $.month".
We thought about defining the attribute varia
Piers Cawley wrote:
> > Users of the class includes people subclassing the class, so to them
> > they need to be able to use $.month_0 and $.month, even though there
> > is no "has $.month_0" declared in the Class implementation, only
> > "has $.month".
We thought about defining the attribute va
Larry Wall wrote:
: Do the following exist then:
:has @x; # private, lexically scoped
[...]
:has %y; # private, lexically scoped
[...]
Yes, the sigil is fairly orthogonal to all this, hopefully.
Yes, for isn't the sigil just a compact form of saying "does Hash" or
"does Array" ?
Stevan Little wrote:
Yes, we have. One thing to consider is that it is much easier to get the
"Role order doesn't matter" thing when they are composed. Once you start
keeping the roles around, you run into the possiblity for such things as
"next METHOD" being executed in Role context. I wont ev
Yuval Kogman wrote:
everyone gets to choose, and another thing I have in mind is the
Transactional role...
DBI::Handle does Transactional;
To the STM rollbacker and type checker thingy this means that any IO
performed by DBI::Handle invoked code is OK - it can be reversed
using the Transa
chromatic wrote:
A12 and S12 describe introspection on objects and classes. The
metaclass instance has the method getmethods() which returns "method
descriptors". The design specifies several traits queryable through
these descriptors.
[...]
Currently, there's no way to query these traits
Piers Cawley wrote:
Let's say I have a class, call it Foo which has a bunch of attributes, and I've
created a few of them. Then, at runtime I do:
eval 'class Foo { has $.a_new_attribute is :default<10> }';
Assuming I've got the syntax right for defaulting an attribute, and lets assume
I have,
Stevan Little wrote:
This is extended into the other sigil types;
has %.foo;
is sugar for this:
has Hash $foo; # or has %foo, but really, the point is it's
# an implementation detail, right?
method foo is rw {
return Proxy.new( :FETCH{ $foo }, # or a facade
Autrijus Tang wrote:
Containers come in two flavours: Non-tieable and Tieable. Both are typed,
mutable references. There is no way in runtime to change the flavour.
data Container s a
= NCon (STRef s (NBox a))
| TCon (STRef s (TBox a))
A Non-tieable container is comprised of
On Wed, 2005-08-10 at 21:00 -0400, Joe Gottman wrote:
>Will there be an operator for symmetric difference? I nominate (^).
That makes sense, although bear in mind that the existing Set module for
Perl 6, and the Set::Scalar and Set::Object modules for Perl 5 use % for
this (largely due to ove
On Mon, 2005-08-15 at 16:33 -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
> : I would assume that you would choose time 0.0 = Jan 1, 2000 at 00:00:00.0
> : TAI (December 31, 1999 at 23:59:29.0 UTC), making the whole thing free of
> : any UTC interferences. But there is an argument for making the zero point a
> : reco
On Mon, 2005-08-15 at 22:24 -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
> : > That's my leaning--if I thought it might encourage the abandonment of
> : > civil leap seconds, I'd be glad to nail it to Jan 1, 2000, 00:00:00.0 UTC.
> : If we're going with TAI, can't we just nail it to the epoch it defines,
> : instead?
On Wed, 2005-08-17 at 01:28 -0500, Dave Rolsky wrote:
> > Why on earth would you want to encourage such a short sighted
> > programming practise? The earth wobbles like a spinning top. In fact
> It's hardly short sighted to want leap seconds to be abandoned (not in
> Perl but world wide). The f
Hi all,
Is it intentional that S09 lists unboxed complex types, but equivalent
Boxed types are missing from the "Types" section in S06?
Sam.
On Thu, 2005-10-20 at 08:45 -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
> More info. ¢T is a scalar variable just like $T, but enforces a
> class view, so you can use it as a class parameter, and pass any
> object to it, but only access the classish aspects of the object.
> The only other big difference is that you
On Sat, 2005-10-29 at 17:30 -0400, Stevan Little wrote:
> However, it could also be that the creator of Foo did not intend for
> subclasses to be able to "Just Work", and that the whole idea of Foo
> is to do a "Template Method" style pattern in which subclasses must
> implement the &help_pro
On Wed, 2005-11-02 at 11:46 -0700, John Williams wrote:
> It is not so much an operator, as it is a subroutine with really strange
> syntax, and the side-effect of changing the $_ variable. You need to use
> an operator to get it to affect a different variable.
operators _are_ subroutines. There
On Wed, 2005-11-02 at 09:03 -0500, Rob Kinyon wrote:
> I think the difference comes from the Principle of Least Surprise. The
> various operators being discussed in this thread are all operators
> which are in languages that have common use - C, C++, Java, the .Net
> stack, etc. Regexen and the var
committees of professional standards-writers are
> pretty bad, and we're still a long way from that.
In the very young field of programming, aren't we all ignorant amateurs?
Any programmer who doesn't know that they are ignorant are almost
certainly instead arrogant.
--
Sam V
g
a class.
OO Code is; Classes, Attributes, Methods and Associations. How many
of these elements does Perl deal in?
And don't take offence at being called an amateur - the word literally
means `for the love of it'.
--
Sam Vilain, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thesaurus: ancient reptile with an excellent vocabulary
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:04, Michael G Schwern wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 28, 2003 at 12:11:18PM +1300, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > This may sound like a silly idea but ...
> >
> > Has anyone considered removing with the syntactic distinction between
> > numeric and string indexing -- that is, between arr
nge the key
type
BAD: code that you have to rewrite if you change a key type
--
Sam Vilain, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
A closed mouth says nothing wrong; a closed mind does nothing right.
- anon.
ng the common concepts - then making them all
effectively obsolete by unifying the concepts into the language :-).
my 2c.
--
Sam Vilain, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"I like a man who grins when he fights."
- Winston Churchill -
the primary elements of objects and so IMHO belong in the Perl 6 object
implementation. UML considers them pretty core, too.
Leave them out to carry on with the status quo of a myriad of subtly
different, non-interchangable approaches to associating classes.
--
Sam Vilain, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If you think the United States has stood still, who built the
largest shopping center in the world?
RICHARD M NIXON
ccesses an attribute which is defined in both classes,
which does it get? I think that case (MI two classes with clashing
symbols) should be a hard run-time error. If attributes are declared
explicitly, then this enables this test. In Perl 5, the approach taken
with MI namespace clashes is to cross one's fingers ;).
--
Sam Vilain, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Understanding is a kind of ecstasy."
-- Carl Sagan
apsulated");
These tests perhaps illustrate the level to which I've made them similar;
is($car->get_owner(0), $joe, "Refs can look like arrays");
ok($car->owner_includes($joe), "Refs can look like encapsulated sets");
eval { $car->owner->includes($joe) }
On Thu, 06 Mar 2003 15:31, Brent Dax wrote:
> Sam Vilain:
> # > We musn't dictate style.
> #
> # No, but we should emanate good style. And I consider opening
> # two class'
> # namespaces into the same stash to be very bad style.
>
> We *must* support MI
e issues. What other practical approaches exist?
UML does not deal with persistence. It deals with specifying and modelling
objects.
I think that right now persistence fairly and squarely belongs outside of
Parrot :-).
--
Sam Vilain, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I dont have any solution, but I certainl
re you
> are headed with
> this?
The paper appears to me to describe using serialisation of memory
structures to achieve persistence, which is another approach entirely.
Serialisation is good, but fails for more complicated memory structures.
--
Sam Vilain, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The meek
e it too ugly. If they don't inherit the
methods they need then they'll just have to get a `method not defined'
error.
It just goes to show that MI is an ugly hack compared to using a servant
class. But that is not the point here; the point here is making good MI
semantics.
Sor
ionship of Directory and
file. It is composite, indicating that Directory objects are composed of
files.
Associations *are* fundamental object things. Presenting them in terms of
attributes is the real hack.
--
Sam Vilain, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It is necessary for me to establish a winner imag
lutely whipuptitudalicious.
[ poop-group list members: this is your cue to highlight the inadequacies
in what I have just stated, so that we can all model the input to our
object persistence tools in the same way in Perl 6. Speak now or hold
your peace for another generation of Perl. ]
-
ons like classes, except that they'll
> mostly be auto-generated. However, if you need to insert code (as
> above) you can explicitly spell out your sub.
Certainly they could.
> What would be nice would be a convention for
> accessing/creating/querying/modifying them, so that when
On Sat, 08 Mar 2003 06:58, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> At 2:08 PM +1300 3/7/03, Sam Vilain wrote:
> >As long as mechanisms are put in place to allow modules to bypass
> > object encapsulation and private/public constraints, and given that
> > Parrot will have no XS,
>
> It wo
Darren Duncan wrote:
I didn't say that per se. I said "non-core". As far as I know, Test.pm
is a core module.
Indeed, hooray!
So when can we expect a port of Rosetta? ;-)
Sam.
Rod Adams wrote:
I do not believe that is possible.
This is the "filtering" or "unification" behavior that people keep
wanting junctions to have, which they do not.
Aww! But what about all the great problems that could be expressed
with them? I know of two languages that consider this to be a co
Rod Adams wrote:
And as one who recently proposed a way of getting Prolog like features
in Perl (through Rules, not Junctions), I understand the appeal
completely. Junctions are not the way to that goal. They are something
different.
> Taking multiple values at once is what junctions are all abo
Aaron Sherman wrote:
Sam "mugwump" Vilain refers to each of these syntaxes as /Pod dialects/.
He is working on more formally defining the common model or "AST" that
these dialects map to.
Why? Seriously, why on earth do you want to encourage the proliferation
of variant markup languages?! There are
Damian Conway wrote:
[No, I'm not back; I'm just passing by. But I feel that I need to
comment on this whole issue]
Thanks! This message has lots of useful information that I would have
otherwise probably missed.
It seems that the basic premise of the POD document object model gels
well with t
Darren Duncan wrote:
Now I seem to remember reading somewhere that '===' will do what I want,
but I'm now having trouble finding any mention of it.
So, what is the operator for reference comparison?
As someone who wrote a tool that uses refaddr() and 0+ in Perl 5 to
achieve the same thing, I agre
Luke Palmer wrote:
Supposing I had a "doc" trait, could I say:
sub f2c (Num $temp doc)
doc
{...}
Or would I be forced to spell it doc('stuff') ?
Well, first you need an `is` somewhere in there. And after that I think
you'll need to do it in doc('stuff') form. If we did allow doc<>,
Juerd wrote:
For some reason, I keep typing :=: instead of =:=. Do other people
experience similar typo-habits with new operators?
One of my other Perl 6 typo-habits is <<^H^Hargh!^H^H^H^H^H«, but that's
because I like how « and » look, but can't yet easily type them.
Juerd
«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»
Juerd wrote:
According to Wikipedia there are around 400 million native English speakers
and 600 million people who have English as a second language. Should the
remaining ~5.5 billion humans be exluded from writing perl code just so that
we English speakers can understand all the code that is w
Larry Wall wrote:
(B> Well, only if you stick to a standard dialect. As soon as you start
(B> defining your own macros, it gets a little trickier.
(B
(BInteresting, I hadn't considered that.
(B
(BHaving a quick browse through some of the discussions about macros, many
(Bof the macros I saw[
Luke Palmer wrote:
`is pure` would be great to have! For possible auto-memoization of
likely-to-be-slow subs it can be useful, but it also makes great
documentation.
It's going in there whether Larry likes it or not[1]. There are so
incredibly many optimizations that you can do on pure functions,
Glenn Ehrlich wrote:
The darcs repository doesn't seem to have been updated for several days now. Is
anything wrong, or has it changed location?
If that happens again just ask on IRC. I think a synchronisation daemon
just needs kicking over.
Sam.
Rod Adams wrote:
I would be dismayed if autothreading used threads to accomplish it's
goals. Simple iteration in a single interpreter should be more than
sufficient.
For sure. No point in doing 10_000 cycles to set up a scratch area
for a single boolean test that might take 10 cycles.
A software
Hi all,
So, there I was setting up an OpenFoundry account for another project,
http://utilvserver.openfoundry.org/, when they wanted to get commit e-mails
with diffs. So I logged a feature request at http://xrl.us/fy3j, but that
didn't give me commit e-mails straight away, so instead I decided to
based index objects are just as functional
as database indexes, I'd quite like to use my database for that. It's
actually quite good at it :-).
Would it be too much to ask for such hooks? Or should I come up with
a sample implementation / design?
--
Sam Vilain, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
We must become the change we want to see.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
st succeeds, following fail silently, they do
> nothing.
This is exactly what Set::Object does for Perl 5, FWIW. It's fairly
nice, clean XS - and much faster for the purpose than using a normal
HV structure (again, in Perl 5 :)).
--
Sam Vilain, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
$h=$ENV{HOME};@q=split/\n
e pipelines etc).
Presumably this all means that Parrot will be able to due ruby-esque
iteration over all objects (if I may use the term PMC to refer to an
object ;-)) that have been created?
--
Sam Vilain, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The meek shall inherit the earth, but not its mineral rights.
J PAUL GETTY
ript front-end to Parrot, so that Parrot might stand a chance of
usurping Spidermonkey in Mozzy?
Just a thought...
--
Sam Vilain, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ry PMC is still pretty heavy for those non-x86
> platforms out there, and we should avoid it if we can.
So implement threading on architectures that don't support interrupt
masking with completely user-space threading (ie, runloop round-robin)
like Ruby does. *That* is available on *e
ot; or "SMP", what does it mean to have *both* ?
--
Sam Vilain, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything ?
VINCENT van GOGH
rk() would like to devise a test to see if this
is the case.
Apparently current dual Opteron systems are also effectively NUMA (as
each chip has its own memory controller), but at the moment, NUMA mode
with Linux is slower than straight SMP mode. Presumably because it's
a bitch to code for ;-)
So these fun systems are here to stay! :)
--
Sam Vilain, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
All things being equal, a fat person uses more soap than a thin
person.
- anon.
My 2¢ :). This discussion will certainly reach a dollar soon ;).
--
Sam Vilain, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Start every day with a smile and get it over with.
W C FIELDS
that µ-ops may scream along.
With Parrot, it might have to contact another host over an ethernet
controller to acquire a lock (eg, threads running in an OpenMOSIX
cluster). This cannot happen for every instruction!
--
Sam Vilain, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The golden rule is that there are no golden rules
GEORGE BERNARD SHAW
these papers may hopefully prove
> useful to someone...
Anyone else get this strange urge to port the HURD to Parrot assembly,
then get the Parrot build targeting Mach/L4/etc ? :)
--
Sam Vilain, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
He's a devout believer in the department of witchcraft called
medic
a job for an exception to me ;-).
for (1..50) {
eval {
func_that_acquires_first_lock($args);
};
last unless $@ and $@ =~ m/mutex deadlock/i;
}
--
Sam Vilain, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
When I sell liquor, its called bootlegging; when my patrons serve it
on Lake Shore Drive,
delimiters to distinguish documentation
> sections from code. This may seem like overkill to some. I'm basing it
> on what looks right to me in BBEdit and Xcode. If it turns out that it
> doesn't work for everyone, I'll change it.
>
> If anyone feels
On Mon, 22 Oct 2001 12:18:16 -0400
Aaron Sherman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > $z[0] = 50;
> > > $z[2] = 20;
> > > @x = @y[@z];
> > In your code, should @x contain (@y[50,0,20]) or (@y[50,20]) or
> > (@y[50,undef,20]) ?
> @y[50,undef,20], which in Perl5 is @y[50,0,20].
An arbitrary and
On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:27:50 -0400
Aaron Sherman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I am implementing a textbook algo in Perl (the textbook has
> > it written in C++) and have realized that if undef was to
> > numericize to NaN instead of 0, there are a lot of uninitialization
> > errors that would g
On Mon, 29 Oct 2001 11:03:33 +1100 (EST)
Damian Conway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The Real Damian is the Damian inside each of us.
> You need to get in touch with your *own* inner Damian.
SETTING: Trendy bar.
DC: Hey, beautiful, how's it going? Say, do you have a little Damian in
you?
On Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:20:58 +0100
Graham Barr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have always found that the perl output from byacc (with a few tweaks)
> generates a sufficient parser. The addition of a switch statement
> will hopefully make it more efficient.
What you are saying is you are using ya
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 12:26:31 +
Sam Vilain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Why limit Perl to OO and procedural programming at its core?
I just realised my mistake after looking at the hyperoperator discussion:
Hyperoperators bring functional programming to Perl, with all of the mad
but
I think Perl 6 should have a "but" keyword, as in:
if (defined $foo but $foo eq "") {
}
:-)
On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 06:50:13 -0600
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 12:30:11PM +0000, Sam Vilain wrote:
> > I think Perl 6 should have a "but" keyword, as in:
> > if (defined $foo but $foo eq "") {
> *scratches head*
> so... it negates t
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Randal L. Schwartz) wrote:
> Sam> No, "but" is syntactically equivalent to "and" in English. It just
> Sam> implies that the second condition is not generally what you'd
> Sam> expect if the first was true.
> Maybe in the interest of huffman encoding, we could make it
> "even_
Aaron Sherman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> An off-the-wall thought... If this is not the "expected" condition,
> should it have the extra meaning of an assertion? For example,
> could set $! to 'defined $foo but $foo eq ""' and, if -w was in use,
> issue 'warn "Exceptional condition: $!"'
Intere
make a humble beginning on the tests for the Perl 6 metamodel, adding
a README for the work. This chooses the top-level names "Class" and "MetaClass"
for the names of the perl6 metamodel. API largely stolen from Class::MOP
Signed-off-by: Sam Vilain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]&
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