On 10/20/05, Nate Wiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And, it shares alot with other languages people know and use.
That's more because languages are incestuous (like Perl) instead of
languages independently arriving at the same conclusions. Yes, the
"while" loop is going to look the same everywher
> Unfortunately many people WILL have to deal with such changes, and
> the question should be: Does a given change offer a clear improvement?
> As you said, if we're helping %1 of people %1 of the time, are the
> other 99% really going to change all their scripts? No chance.
You again misread what
On 10/20/05, Steve Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have some serious concerns about using Latin-1 sigils within Perl 6 and
> the ASCII multi-character aliases. Am I not understanding something that
> I should see this as an advantage?
I had the same concern a few months back. I've come to s
> Surely you aren't suggesting that these non-English speakers do not have
> access to the ASCII (or EBCDIC) character sets for their editors, are you?
Surely you aren't suggesting that your editor doesn't have access to
the Latin-1 charset, are you? Let's take a look at popular editors:
vi - chec
On 10/21/05, Steve Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2005 at 02:37:09PM +0200, Juerd wrote:
> > Steve Peters skribis 2005-10-21 6:07 (-0500):
> > > Older versions of Eclipse are not able to enter these characters. That's
> > > where the copy and paste comes in.
> >
> > That's wh
I'd like to propose a new metamodel that (I hope) will meet all the
specs @Larry has stated thus far. This metamodel is in two parts.
Part the first:
There is a single object given to P6 called Factory. (No, Steve, there
are no turtles.) Factory has two behaviors, no state, and no classes.
The beh
> > So, you are proposing that the Perl of the Unicode era be limited to
> > ASCII because a 15 year old editor cannot handle the charset? That's
> > like suggesting that operating systems should all be bootable from a
> > single floppy because not everyone has access to a CD drive.
>
> I saying th
Feh - I really need to get on gmail's case for providing a keystroke
for "Reply to All".
Rob
-- Forwarded message --
From: Nate Wiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Oct 21, 2005 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: $1 change issues [was Re: syntax for accessing multiple
versions
Does TYE's Algorithm::Loops's mapcar() provide the basic functionality
of what you're looking for?
Rob
On 10/21/05, Mark Reed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is there a CPAN module which provides the functionality of ¥/zip() for
> Perl5? I don't see anything obvious in the Bundle::Perl6 stuff. Not
On 10/23/05, Autrijus Tang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dan Kogai wrote:
> > To make the matter worse, there are not just one "yen sign" in Unicode.
> > Take a look at this.
> >
> > ¥ U+00A5 YEN SIGN
> > ￥ U+FFE5 FULLWIDTH YEN SIGN
> >
> > Tough they look and groks the same to human, computers han
On 10/24/05, John Macdonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2005 at 02:47:58PM +0100, Alberto Manuel Brandão Simões wrote:
> > Another is because it will take too long to port all CPAN modules to
> > Perl 6 (for this I suggest a Porters force-task to interact with current
> > CPAN modu
On 10/24/05, Nate Wiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Joshua Gatcomb wrote:
> > On 10/24/05, Juerd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> Feel free to add your own, or fears you heard about!
> >
> > FEAR: The Perl6 process is driving away too many good developers
> >
> > FEAR: Perl6 will not be as por
On 10/25/05, Juerd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I think it'd be great if +=, ~=, +&=, ++, etc, could all assume $_ on
> their LHS when there is no obvious operand.
>
> This clashes with &prefix:<=>, but that's nothing a space cannot fix.
> Same for lvalue subs called x or xx (or X or XX).
>
> m
> Basically, ¢T is a close analog of &t, which is the variableish form
> for "sub t". When used in a declaration, both of them introduce a
> bare name as an alias into whatever scope the declaration is inserting
> symbols, albeit with different syntactic slots. So just as
>
> my &t := { ... }
On 10/25/05, Luke Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 10/24/05, H.Merijn Brand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:49:51 -0400, Joshua Gatcomb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > FEAR: Perl6 internals will be just as inaccessable as p5
> >
> > paradox. Many people don't find p
> And in fact, its very existence defies another implicit principle of
> mine, that is, the "principle of partial definition": Defining a new
> type or instance can only break a previously typechecking program by
> making it ambiguous. The idea behind that is that at some time you
> may realize t
> That's just self.meta.add_method($label, $method) by my lights.
> A .meta already implies/ignores the .class coercion. If we are to
> support prototype-based programming $x.meta *must not care* whether
> it has been given a class or an instance or something in between.
> What I am calling a "cla
On 10/26/05, Stevan Little <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Oct 26, 2005, at 12:05 PM, Larry Wall wrote:
> > Of course, there are other words that are somewhat synonymous with
> > "class", Unfortunately "sort" is already hosed. Maybe "kind".
>
> Actually "kind" is used in the "Core Calculus for M
> So maybe we can define our terms like this:
>
> type: a completely generic metaterm for any of the following,
> and then some.
>
> class: a mutable interface object that manages instances in the
> "classical" way, with covariant derivational properties.
>
> role: an immutable
> : 3) Aren't classes mutable and roles immutable by default only? Or has
> : this changed?
>
> Of course. To change the default for a role, call it a class, and
> to change the default for a class, call it a role. :-)
Does this mean that roles are the recommended way to create immutable
classes
On 10/26/05, chromatic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-10-26 at 20:29 -0400, Rob Kinyon wrote:
>
> > I would prefer to use roles as they're closed by default, leaving
> > "class" to be my powertool, if I need the power.
>
> I don't unde
On 10/26/05, Luke Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
> Okay, an open class means you can add methods to it, right? So, let's
> say you have this class:
>
> class Foo {
> method foo() {...}
> method bar() {...}
> }
>
> And this code:
>
> my Foo $x = Foo.new;
>
On 10/26/05, Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2005 at 07:35:05PM -0700, chromatic wrote:
> : On Wed, 2005-10-26 at 21:58 -0400, Rob Kinyon wrote:
> :
> : > Plus, the argument is a straw man. Instead of:
> : >
> : > class Some::Class is a
On 10/27/05, TSa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> HaloO,
>
> Larry Wall wrote:
>
> > : Yes, and dispatch as a runtime keyed access into a code multitude.
> > : The covariant part of the method's sig! The code equivalent to keyed
> > : data access into hashes.
> >
> > Um, yeah. Won't play in Peoria, th
On 10/27/05, Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2005 at 05:37:13AM -0400, Rob Kinyon wrote:
> : Will I be able to do something like:
> :
> : package Foo;
>
> Hmm, you just started in Perl 5 mode.
>
> : $*VERSION = 1.3.2;
>
> Perl 5 would
> But IMHO the reduction in typing for this relatively minor issue is not
> really worth the surprise to newbies at seeing operandless operators.
AMEN!
Rob
On 10/28/05, Jonathan Scott Duff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Roles can hold instance data that will be composed into a class. What
> I'm saying is that if you have two roles:
>
> role X { has $:foo; }
> role Y { has $:foo; }
>
> And a class that's composed of them:
>
> class Xy does X does Y { ..
On 10/28/05, Luke Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
> It was the fact that at each stage of the game, we summarized the
> defaults and requirements for each role, ignoring the internal makeup
> (i.e., what roles were composed into it, etc.).
So, in theory, one should be able to ask any give
> 1. choose one of a set of available methods to call its own.
> 2. create a version of its own.
> 3. pass the buck.
#1 and #2 are identical. Stevan and I have always viewed #1 as a
special case of #2. If you want to choose a method to call, then
create a method of your own and have it wrap the on
On 11/1/05, Jonathan Lang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rob Kinyon wrote:
> > > 1. choose one of a set of available methods to call its own.
> > > 2. create a version of its own.
> > > 3. pass the buck.
> >
> > #1 and #2 are identical. Stevan and I h
On 11/2/05, Michele Dondi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005, John Williams wrote:
>
> > But IMHO the reduction in typing for this relatively minor issue is not
> > really worth the surprise to newbies at seeing operandless operators.
>
> I don't buy that argument as newbies are alrea
On 11/3/05, Michele Dondi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Nov 2005, Ruud H.G. van Tol wrote:
>
> >> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.language/17556
> >
> > I understand that Perl6 allows blocks with changed/enhanced syntax, so
> > it is or will become possible (to add it) as if it w
> On Nov 2, 2005, at 9:02 PM, Jonathan Lang wrote:
> > Let's say you have this:
> >
> > role A {method foo() { code1; } }
> > role B {method foo() { code2; } }
> > role C does A does B {
> > method foo() { A::foo(); }
> > method bar() { B::foo(); }
> > }
> >
> > Should the following
> $ perl -le '$u=1; ($y=$u*=5)++; print $y'
> 6
It's interesting to note that this parse (due to precedence) as
($y=($u*=5))++, not (($y=$u)*=5)++
This is important for overloaded operators (which are going to become
much easier to do in Perl6). The importance arises if Perl6 allows
assignment to
On 11/4/05, Michele Dondi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm still convinced my remark _partly_ applies in the sense that the
> overall impression is that a vast majority of most common needs is
> addressed by a *subset* of the current features and trying to stuff all
> them in has brought in quite a
On 11/4/05, Austin Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello!
>
> If roles are interfaces, do we want any class that provides an interface
> consistent with a role to implicitly do the role? That is, if a class
> fulfills all of the interface requirements of a role without actually
> saying it does
> And when your user does want to, essentially say "Nah, you screwed up
> designing
> that object protocol, children shouldn't've been protected." it's the work of
> a
> moment to write:
>
>thing.send(:children, *args)
I told you I'm still learning. I hadn't gotten to that part of the Pickax
On 11/7/05, Michele Dondi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Nov 2005, Rob Kinyon wrote:
>
> > So, for a bit of extra complexity, I get peace of mind for myself and my
> > users.
>
> The point being, and I'm stressing it once again but no more than once,
&g
I noticed that Makefile.PL has deny_cygwin() very early on in the
process. As I hate developing in native Win32, I've been trying to
make this problem go away.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the only problem with Pugs on
Cygwin is the pathing requirements that GHC has, all of which are
fixabl
Gaal -
I pulled svn r2461 and it does compile on cygwin, yes. But, the
@INC problem is still there, preventing 'make test' from running
successfully. Do you want me to look at that?
Rob
On 5/2/05, Gaal Yahas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 09:06:42A
Will this change remove the need for pugscc to be cygpath'ed on
cygwin? Or, should I go ahead and work on this?
Rob
On 5/3/05, Autrijus Tang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Because I want to embed PGE in Pugs, I end up embedding the
> entire libparrot. :-)
>
> As of two hours ago, if you set the PU
This may be a naive question, but what's wrong with just having a
keyword called reduce()? Why do we need an operator for everything?
I'm worried that the list of P6 operators is going to be as long as
the list of P5 keywords, with a lot of them looking something like:
I propose that if you're t
eans, because it's documented somewhere.
But, don't put it in the core. I thought the core was supposed to be
sparse with modules to add the richness.
Rob
On 5/4/05, Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, May 04, 2005 at 08:59:04AM -0400, Rob Kinyon wrote:
> : Thi
What about the function compose() that would live in the module
"keyword", imported by the incantation "use keyword qw( compose );"?
(NB: My P6-fu sucks right now)
multimethod compose (@*List) {
return {
$_() for @List;
};
}
On 5/4/05, Michele Dondi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I
I just started following the list again after a few months (though I
have been skimming the bi-weekly summaries) and I'm a little alarmed
at what seems to be a trend towards operaterizing everything in sight
and putting those operators in the core.
My understanding of P6 after the reading the AES
Would that mean that a filehandle opened readonly would throw an
exception if you attempted to either print or warn on it?
On 5/4/05, Juerd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gaal Yahas skribis 2005-05-04 17:24 (+0300):
> > Ah yes, that's another thing I was wondering about: what does opening a
> > pipe
> Rob Kinyon skribis 2005-05-04 11:02 (-0400):
> > Would that mean that a filehandle opened readonly would throw an
> > exception if you attempted to either print or warn on it?
>
> I don't know what warning on a filehandle should be or do, but ignoring
> that bit, y
> Are there any particular other operators you're worried about?
> I think the current design does a pretty good job of factoring out the
> metaoperators so that the actual set of underlying basic operators *is*
> relatively small. Yes, you can now say something like
>
> $x = [»+^=«] @foo;
>
Can I put an operator in a variable and then use it in the []
reduce meta-operator? Something like:
$op = '+';
$x = [$op] @x;
Rob
I've found the problem with "make test" not working. The problem is
the pathname not being cygpath'ed. Basically, every call to
doesFileExist needs to be cygpath'ed. Unfortunately, I have no idea
how to do that. All the calls to doesFileExist seem to be in
src/Pugs/Prim.hs lines 204,1250,1256. The
Oh - one more thing. hsc2hs needs to be done by hand on Cygwin. You
cannot allow it to try and built through because the last step
(executing the .exe redirected to the .hs) will fail and that cannot
be cygpath'ed (I don't think). Having the makefile execute each step
separately may be a good optio
> : Does this mean that @{foo()} can be written as @ foo()?
>
> I would prefer not. Use foo()[] instead.
Does this mean that some constructs in Perl are parsed immediately
(such as foo() ...) and some are deferred (such as the [ in [>>+^<<]
...)? I would think this potentially makes a difference
> I'm sticking to non-words here, as I mentally parse not and true as
> single-arg subs, single-arg subs as unary operators, etcetera. I can't
> help it, but I have absolutely no idea how to determine the difference.
> Is it &prefix: or just ¬? I have no idea. I do know that it's
> &infix:, not &x.
On 5/6/05, Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 01:26:10PM -0400, Rob Kinyon wrote:
> : > : Does this mean that @{foo()} can be written as @ foo()?
> : >
> : > I would prefer not. Use foo()[] instead.
> :
> : Does this mean that s
> Or perhaps we should by default restrict short ones to simple
> operators, since it's pretty obvious that [+] is doing *some* kind
> of addition, while [EMAIL PROTECTED]&$*#«=] is not quite so obvious. In other
> words, we apply some kind of Huffman amplification to the metaoperator,
> where the
What's really odd is that document links to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_disjunction which ends up
stating that chained xors are associative and commutative, meaning
that instead of acting as one(), it counts parity.
Rob
On 5/9/05, David Landgren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jonathan Wo
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