y, this might be something useful at the user level. Many times
I do this
@record{@keys} = new_values();
Using a set of 'intern'ed strings might make it more efficient. And unless
we are able to note that @keys is always the same,the hashes would have to
keep getting recomputed. W
this is the sentence );
$bar[0] eq "";
$bar[1] eq "this";
Currently $bar[0] eq "this";
If you think about it isn't removing leading fields, it's looking for the
first non-whitespace token on the li
ion, like:
DS>perl_call(perl_cv_ptr, 1, 2, 3);
DS> the bad bit about that is it means that calls to perl functions are
DS> different than calls to C functions, and I'm trying not to do that--I
DS> really do want to be able to get real f
>>>>> "DS" == Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
DS> At 01:50 PM 10/10/00 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
>> There is an intermediate method, have our own execution and data stack.
>> Basically build a TIL interpreter. This might be intermediat
rhaps if there were some dataflow
analysis some region of code) to use indirection?
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ually
done, all threading is directly to the body of &foo. When the *foo
assignment is done,
copy the &foo body to a new location.
replace the old &foo body with an indirection
(I believe this is atomic.)
And optionally, the indirection could be to a fixup
.e. using pointers (or direct machine calls) to other
body of code made up of pointers or a real piece of code.
You seem to be thinking of threaded execution.
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As the pieces were pulled off the disk, the next io
instruction ended up in the right place. Myth?)
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don't see any practical restrictions at all.)
We may not even need to copy the body. If the header of the function
is target location, the header could any one of
nop,
nest another inner loop
lookup current symbol
fixup caller
or jump to
ops. Were Perl5 used
the C inner loop, the TIL could have a tighter asm loop, or even direct
machine calls.
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ps could use relative addressing as not needing
relocation. But I'm not sure that all architectures support long enough
relative jumps/calls.
Doing the actual relocation should be quite fast. I believe that all
current executables have to be relocated upon loading.
>>>>> "AT" == Adam Turoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
AT> On Tue, Oct 24, 2000 at 10:55:29AM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
>> I don't see it.
>>
>> I would find it extremely akward to allow
>>
>> thread 1:*foo = \&o
has to
be done or not. If there are some magic combinations of operations that
are done very regularly, a new word that does that combo could be provided.
If the representation doesn't allow for certain optimizations, the TIL is
not the optree, but rather the final executable form. The compiler co
threaded code is so much slower; this can also be seen as
>> an indictment of threaded code).
JvV> Now I am really confused. This directly contradicts the Threaded Perl RFC.
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e language, etc. Planning a map from "here" to
DG> "there" doesn't sound quite feasible when we don't know where "there" is.
DG> What am I missing?
DG> pete
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always safe to resubscribe. You'll get an error message if you're on
DS> already.
I just stick with -all, and let the filter take care of the rest.
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tion.
Getting an efficient representation of a meaningful structure should
be done a new data type.
(I'm thinking of representing COBOL records/data, or even XML documents)
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;m more inclined to think of the structured data type as a layer
above the raw bits. I see the association of attributes with the underlying
data as an extra 'service'.
If for no other reason, there are many ways of having the attributes
distribute across, deletions, additions, and
g. (And that this will be able to parse code
at acceptable speed.)
Anyway, what does this have to do with the API?
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go.
ST> Perhaps we really need a new kind of regex that works by-design against
ST> streams of bytes?
ST> -sam
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S> Dan Sugalski even samurai
DS> [EMAIL PROTECTED] have teddy bears and even
DS> teddy bears get drunk
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$foo = s;foo;bar;g;
$foo = s#foo#bar#g; # change the world
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cation' that needs to be aware of
platform dependencies.
Bootstraping could be accomplished with a thin stub layer over FILE *,
with progressive iterations of PerlIO replacing the stub.
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necessary? Why not a non-vtbl function that knows how
to add numeric types?
I would have wanted to limit the vtbl to self manipulation functions.
Set, get, convert, etc. Cross object operations would/should be
outside the realm of the object. (It seems like trying to lift yourself
by the bootstraps.)
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JH> /* any others? */
JH> };
JH> should be used around SVs to ascertain that everything fits everywhere.
I was under the impression that p6 was going to do away with p5's
incestuous knowledge of hardware bits. And go with a more OO style of
dispatch.
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Chaim Frenkel
m of things we have specific routines
DS> for.
(I'm no OO programmer) I can't wrap my mind around how one can extend a
OO hierarchy so that a low level (i.e. closer to the base class) can know
about a future type. (I once tried to work through the Smalltalk hierarchy
but no
BMK> subscriber could post.
Just be careful about the perl6-all redirection. Don't allow registration
on both redirection lists.
Hmm, How would this work? Headers would be re-written? How would 'critical'
comments get to the -internals-design list?
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So having line and offset information available in the output could be
made available.
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^From\s+\S+\s+\S+\s+(\S+\s+\S+)/) {
NT> @r = reverse split ' ', $who;
NT> @r[0] = sprintf("%02d", @r[0]);
NT> %count{"@r"}++;
NT> }
NT> }
NT> foreach (sort %count) {
NT> printf("%s: %3
>>>>> "NT" == Nathan Torkington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
NT> Chaim Frenkel writes:
>> Those are all major typo inducing changes.
>>
>> You'll need alternative micro-code loads for your fingers, when
>> switching between clien
more complex constructs.
What in the simple methodology combined with Damian's switch monster,
is missing?
I'll hazard a guess that, if the complex syntax goes in and if there
is no semantic issue, -internals will likely convert the complex
version internally to a switch.
So is it
ht that the finally clause is executed
under normal and exceptional conditions. I.e. there is no way to exit
the context of the try block without going through the finally.
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bj->method...
}
catch { }
finally {}
or
$status = $obj->method...
And have both work properly.
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pt { $@->any(... $_[0] ...) } => catch { }
TO> except { $@->any(... $_[0] ...) } => catch { }
TO> catch { }
TO> Is this a problem?
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>>>>> "CN" == Chris Nandor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
CN> Can we please cut down on the traffic to perl-announce, maybe make it
CN> moderated? Thanks,
Perhaps, the esteemed Librarian could make the -announce a Bcc?
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Chaim Frenkel
unwind
and a normal situation you would lose that fact. Hmm, unless you
restore the value in the finally block. But that is confusing.
I think you will find a reasonably even split between the two camps.
One possible weight would be how often a caught exception would be
rethrown. If the perc
n it would be the same as a return with no
arguments.
>>>>> "PS" == Peter Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
PS> At 10:16 AM 8/16/00 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
>> One issue that haven't seen addressed, is how to _not_ have exceptions.
>>
>&
ine from knowing where
PRL> one began and the other ended. Better would be if the rvalue were
PRL> passed as a last or first argument, making it equivalent to:
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>>>>> "PS" == Peter Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
PS> At 07:10 PM 8/16/00 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
>> >>>>> "PS" == Peter Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
PS> 1. When an exception is thrown perl l
echanism that means, short circuit, but let the user know why.
That selects either a non-local goto or a return mechanism depending upon
context. (Dynamically within the control of a try/eval, or under pragmatic
control requesting the non-local mechanism.)
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>>>>> "PS" == Peter Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
PS> At 07:00 PM 8/16/00 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
>> Perhaps, throw can carry a return value?
>>
>> throw {"return value"} $exception;
>> If there is an active try
much intimate
knowledge of the caller.
Lets keep it simple. I'm sure we can keep a slot open for an extra
argument.
Hmm, would the direct object slot be ameneable to a attribute? Would
that help disambiguate things?
foo :attr(value) @args
>>>>> "NT" == Nathan Torkington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
NT> Chaim Frenkel writes:
>> [use wacky Unicode characters for new operators]
>> I can see that this would give problems for current editors and displays,
>> but by the time perl6 c
ke the programer work. Are those tabs or spaces?
And it doesn't strip the leading whitespace.
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>>>>> "MC" == Mark Cogan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> is equivalent to
>>
>> @a = (\$a, \$b, \$c);
>>
>> rather than what you wrote.
MC> Ah, so it is. I'd argue that that's broken and should be handled with map
MC&g
I.e. $STDOUT should always mean one and only one file at a time.
Unless one wants to have a $DEFAULT filehandle and get rid of single
arg select.
>>>>> "JSD" == Jonathan Scott Duff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
JSD> On Tue, Aug 15, 2000 at 06:53:30PM -0400, Chai
nd you, the instantaneous time is correct. But
calculating backwards to what the instantaneous time would have been,
or calculating what the instanataneous time will be will not work.
But your blurb would be a lie. How would one ensure the correct
difference to the TAI? And what would be the tr
time perl6 comes out, perhaps the situation would be better.
(Now, if we add all that APL symbols ...)
Thoughts?
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Perl <-> Perl cross system will break.
Perl <-> other program same system will break.
Pick your poison. I'd rather have cross system break. But if the
epoch were available then an adjustment could be made intellegently.
>param($var) += ...
JV> $cgi->param($var) =~ s///
JV> for ( $cgi->param($var) ) {
JV> $_ = ...
JV> }
JV> sysread($fh,$cgi->param($var),...)
JV> and so on.
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Err, when did this decision come about. I saw some discussion but I
didn't notice when it became final.
(I assume go, means be eliminated.)
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re quite important in a database-enabled application.
PRL> Professional database systems have transaction-handling inside, but
PRL> there are only a few laguage out there, what supports transactions
PRL> in variable level.
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Chaim Frenkel
will have to implement it anyway.
The only other choice would be to start a -environment (or some such)
list, but I don't think there will be that much traffic.
Actually, it might be appropriate for horos(?) complaint list.
(How's that coming along?)
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rd.
The containing WG would report the results upward.
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Thanks again.
That's a bit strong. All we are doing is filtering the garbage for Larry.
Larry may well be reading for flavour.
And you forgot Rule #2. Larry can always change his mind.
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will include or exclude them
based on the build requested.
>>>>> "MGS" == Michael G Schwern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
MGS> On Sun, Aug 13, 2000 at 07:16:41PM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
>> What do you think of creating a mechanism for attaching pre
ing the assignment (what if an assignment
DC> isn't what I want?).
DC> The (overloaded) operator = should do the assignment. To whatever lvalue
DC> the lvalue subroutine returns.
DC> Or the "assignment" should be done by operator += or operator++ or
DC&
sorb the unused named parameters?
DC> =head1 IMPLEMENTATION
DC> Definitely S.E.P.
What does that mean?
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p for grabs.
But if it participates then as far as the 'caller' or user is concerned
it looks like a variable and acts like a variable. It must be a variable.
>>>>> "d" == dLux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
d> /--- On Thu, Aug 17, 2000 at 06:17:51PM
ected/raised in the
try block itself. I probably wouldn't want to route it through the
local catches.
The try block knows what the situation is, it did it. So the exception
is aimed at the caller not at itself.
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Chaim Frenkel
t
don't throw. You are imposing a style on your caller.
A message would be appropriate (ala, die or warn)
Also a use (within main or if it can work lexically) that would mean
die_if_exception_thrown. Would treat the main routine as if it were
wrapped in a try block th
all <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
SWM> Does Perl6 support Symmetric MultiProcessing (SMP)?
SWM> This is a *huge* issue. It affects everything else that we do with
SWM> threads.
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Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
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d of
JDB> dynamic variables, and I've spent all evening being troubled by it.
JDB> If that "currently" implies someone's thinking about this as a
JDB> feature, maybe we really could do what I've been saying.
JDB> Still chewing on various
s building an optree and storing a pointer in the global
namespace (or package perhaps.)
BCW> (Assuming all program globals, of course.)
BCW> Thread 1: $a = $b + $c;
BCW> Thread 2: $d = $c / $a;
BCW> Thread 1, doing statement locking, could lock these $a, $
o distribute portable time and date calcuations, as
part of the core, we will have to live with whatever the system
libraries give us.
(I don't want to think about Leap Seconds just yet.)
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to flock() involving mutexes
DLN> and sending it to perl6-language?
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/I had arbitrary ranges for array
indices.
Hmm, I feel an RFC coming on
my @arr :low(-32000) :high(+32000);
my @population :low(1900) :high(2039);
$population[1923] = 323000;
How about
my @population[1900:2039];
Looks funny though.
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Chaim Frenkel
tant-ness in my mind is an attribute or modifer of the value
or perhaps of the container. It has no bearing on the scoping or type
of the value.
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s
it great. You think there is a better _approach_ then tell the author.
You are limited by what the author wrote.
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t Man", "they given you a number and
takin' way your name.
What was the name of the show? "Secret Agent"? And what came first
the song or the show?
What was the real theme song? The title song was never played during
t
r a way to find out how
>> deep is the call stack.
DC> That wouldn't help in this case, since it's a matter of whether the
DC> programmer intended to pass by copy or alias here, and that isn't encoded
DC> *anywhere* on the call stack.
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Chaim Frenkel
>>>>> "GB" == Graham Barr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
GB> On Fri, Aug 18, 2000 at 12:25:42AM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
>> As Graham pointed out, is an lvalue sub supposed to act like a tie or
>> like a variable.
GB> Both.
GB> As Damian poin
>> in the prototype would absorb the unused named parameters?
DC> Yes, I've been rethinking that in light of my immediately previous posting
DC> about C.
DC> I suspect that this constraint should only be applied under use strict,
DC> or better yet under the
e subroutine definition (which is not a
JV> problem per se), but also seem to require that the compiler knows it's
JV> compiling an lvalue sub call, and hence this sub must be predeclared
JV> or otherwise made known to the compiler. A sub is lvalued or not, and
JV> the compiler must
to be appropropriate.
These two should have different actions.
$foo = &foo;
&foo = $foo;
Perl needs a value for one, and a reference for the other.
JV> - make it unfeasable for methods.
Why? All methods for the same OO hiera
o-> has to be called first. And the resulting
reference queried about it's type. And then the want() will return
the correct context.
In the another_sub( lvalue_sub ), lvalue_sub has to be defered until
the first time it is called. (Unless Damian thinks that reaccessing
it each time will make mor
DC> http://dev.perl.org/rfc/
DC> =head1 TITLE
DC> Higher order functions
DC> =head1 VERSION
DC> Maintainer: Damian Conway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
DC> Date: 4 August 2000
DC> Last Modified: 20 August 2000
DC> Version: 4
DC> M
the
TO> cases where you would want you use them takes less source code
TO> with exceptions than with return code checking, as per the
TO> CONVERSION section above.
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il the debate about using else/switch instead of catch.
Which switch?
C's with fallthrough?
Damian wants perl's switch to have no fallthrough.
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n $rc or a ++$i, not even one.
You are preparing to force all programmers to your way of thinking?
This is not what perl is about.
I DONT WANT TO BE FORCED TO USE YOUR STYLE SIMPLY TO USE THE MODULES
IN CPAN OR THAT SHIP WITH PERL.
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instance variable
TO> could point to a "stack snapshot" object, rather than to a data
TO> structure. A mechanism like this is available in the Perl 5
TO> Devel bundle. If an RFC for such a snapshot class is added to
TO> Perl 6, this RFC should be reconciled with
O> share lexical scope (due, perhaps, to the vagaries of stack
TO> unwinding), this feature can simply be deleted, and the outer
TO> scope can be shared.
TO> Yours, &c, Tony Olekshy
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t at the end of this part of perlsyn
PS> (which says the opposite, and is easily confirmed):
I vaguely recall that Gurusamy fixed this one.
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>>>>> "DR" == Dave Rolsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
DR> On 22 Aug 2000, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
>> Could you tell me why you would want two finallys?
>>
>> Why not put them into one?
TO> my ($p, $q);
TO> try { $p = P->new; $q = Q->
0]->{x} }
DC># and one of...
DC>post x { $_[0]->{x} >= 0 } # post condition on x attribute
DC>ensure { $_[0]->{x} >= 0 } # class invariant
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hey use
PS> Fatal-checking*** This is the Perl way anyway.
Fatal checking, is for core functions. And optional for module authors.
Then Fatal.pm and exception.pm could possibly be consolidated.
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would be stored) that is the iterator
for (each %hash) {}
becomes
$hidden = iterator->new %hash
while ($_ = $hidden->next) {}
$hidden->done
or something.
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s.
Are there DBM's that don't understand nextkey?
Isn't this the another version of having an indirection? DBM's that
don't allow multiple iterators means the porter to the DBM has to
supply a wrapper that does.
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layer (yeah, I know another speed loss) that
would be able to directly target the native threads library/api.
The POSIX threads API would be the initial port but then we might be
able to get some speed ups by going for the native implementation?
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Chaim Frenkel
;{x} }
DC> post x : mandatory { $_[0]->{x} >= 0 }
DC> Damian
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his is a perfect example where my 'no exceptions' would be handy.
Just do all the cleanups and ignore any throws.
(Yes, it still doesn't help you with the invariant but is much neater.
And if it really is needed, then perhaps a finally block would simply
automaticall a 'no exce
>>>>> "PS" == Peter Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
PS> At 02:28 PM 8/23/00 -0700, Glenn Linderman wrote:
>> Chaim Frenkel wrote:
>>
>> > No, that should be the difference between die and throw. Die is
>> > immediately fata
>>>>> "TO" == Tony Olekshy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
TO> Chaim Frenkel wrote:
>>
>> You are being extreme here. I use perl _because_ it is so
>> forgiving. I can easily do unlink("foo.err") and not check
>> return code
ectation would be to have it become
# $foo=1 $baz=2 @bar=(4)
*blech*, I'm glad that you're doing the thinking.
>>>>> "LW" == Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
LW> Chaim Frenkel writes:
LW> : LW> P.S. I thin
nd you correctly the actual target of the assignment
would be delayed.
Which leads me to ...
{
my $foo = lvalue_with_lazy_return;
$foo = 42;
}
I wouldn't want the 42 going, who knows where. I want the value of $foo
replaced with 42.
--
Chaim Frenkel
odify it at will.
If the lvalue is a fundemental type (whatever that is) everything works
as if the lvalue were actually in place
sub foo { return $a }
foo =~ s///;# same as $a =~ s///;
If $a is a user defined object, then the same _as if_ rule would apply
and the object
e
TO> to generate and propagate exceptions (die and $@) as it does now,
TO> so we don't break tradition.
No, that should be the difference between die and throw. Die is
immediately fatal. (i.e. current semantics) throw is new and does
the magic.
We get no breakage that way.
--
Chaim Fren
ing to do with $p->format)
@user = ($uid, $x, $magic) = split /:/, ;
Or perhaps something along the lines of ksh's <() syntax?
@user = ($uid, $x, >($p->format)) = ...
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first use.
But the drawback would be that the actual victim may not be the primal
cause.
sub foo {
my $fh = open();
... Lots more code ...
return $fh;
}
$victim = foo;
print $victim "I'm helpless";
t;>) {
(<{proc_arg1}, <{proc_arg2}) = split;
}
Damian, You have coroutines/generators out there. What about a data sink?
Anything you have currently proposed that would do this neatly.
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Chaim FrenkelNonlin
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