Re: RFC 326 (v1) Symbols, symbols everywhere

2000-10-05 Thread Chaim Frenkel
y, this might be something useful at the user level. Many times I do this @record{@keys} = new_values(); Using a set of 'intern'ed strings might make it more efficient. And unless we are able to note that @keys is always the same,the hashes would have to keep getting recomputed. W

Re: RFC 361 (v1) Simplifying split()

2000-10-05 Thread Chaim Frenkel
this is the sentence ); $bar[0] eq ""; $bar[1] eq "this"; Currently $bar[0] eq "this"; If you think about it isn't removing leading fields, it's looking for the first non-whitespace token on the li

Re: RFC 334 (v1) Perl should allow specially attributed subs to be called as C functions

2000-10-10 Thread Chaim Frenkel
ion, like: DS>perl_call(perl_cv_ptr, 1, 2, 3); DS> the bad bit about that is it means that calls to perl functions are DS> different than calls to C functions, and I'm trying not to do that--I DS> really do want to be able to get real f

Re: RFC 334 (v1) Perl should allow specially attributed subs to be called as C functions

2000-10-10 Thread Chaim Frenkel
>>>>> "DS" == Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: DS> At 01:50 PM 10/10/00 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote: >> There is an intermediate method, have our own execution and data stack. >> Basically build a TIL interpreter. This might be intermediat

Re: Threaded Perl bytecode (was: Re: stackless python)

2000-10-23 Thread Chaim Frenkel
rhaps if there were some dataflow analysis some region of code) to use indirection? -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: Threaded Perl bytecode (was: Re: stackless python)

2000-10-24 Thread Chaim Frenkel
ually done, all threading is directly to the body of &foo. When the *foo assignment is done, copy the &foo body to a new location. replace the old &foo body with an indirection (I believe this is atomic.) And optionally, the indirection could be to a fixup

Re: Threaded Perl bytecode (was: Re: stackless python)

2000-10-24 Thread Chaim Frenkel
.e. using pointers (or direct machine calls) to other body of code made up of pointers or a real piece of code. You seem to be thinking of threaded execution. -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: [not quite an RFC] shared bytecode/optree

2000-10-25 Thread Chaim Frenkel
As the pieces were pulled off the disk, the next io instruction ended up in the right place. Myth?) -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: Threaded Perl bytecode (was: Re: stackless python)

2000-10-25 Thread Chaim Frenkel
don't see any practical restrictions at all.) We may not even need to copy the body. If the header of the function is target location, the header could any one of nop, nest another inner loop lookup current symbol fixup caller or jump to

Re: TIL redux (was Re: What will the Perl6 code name be?)

2000-10-26 Thread Chaim Frenkel
ops. Were Perl5 used the C inner loop, the TIL could have a tighter asm loop, or even direct machine calls. -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: [not quite an RFC] shared bytecode/optree

2000-10-25 Thread Chaim Frenkel
ps could use relative addressing as not needing relocation. But I'm not sure that all architectures support long enough relative jumps/calls. Doing the actual relocation should be quite fast. I believe that all current executables have to be relocated upon loading.

Re: Threaded Perl bytecode (was: Re: stackless python)

2000-10-25 Thread Chaim Frenkel
>>>>> "AT" == Adam Turoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: AT> On Tue, Oct 24, 2000 at 10:55:29AM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote: >> I don't see it. >> >> I would find it extremely akward to allow >> >> thread 1:*foo = \&o

Re: TIL redux (was Re: What will the Perl6 code name be?)

2000-10-27 Thread Chaim Frenkel
has to be done or not. If there are some magic combinations of operations that are done very regularly, a new word that does that combo could be provided. If the representation doesn't allow for certain optimizations, the TIL is not the optree, but rather the final executable form. The compiler co

Re: TIL redux (was Re: What will the Perl6 code name be?)

2000-10-31 Thread Chaim Frenkel
threaded code is so much slower; this can also be seen as >> an indictment of threaded code). JvV> Now I am really confused. This directly contradicts the Threaded Perl RFC. -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: The new api groups

2000-11-14 Thread Chaim Frenkel
e language, etc. Planning a map from "here" to DG> "there" doesn't sound quite feasible when we don't know where "there" is. DG> What am I missing? DG> pete -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: The new api groups

2000-11-15 Thread Chaim Frenkel
always safe to resubscribe. You'll get an error message if you're on DS> already. I just stick with -all, and let the filter take care of the rest. -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: SvPV*

2000-11-22 Thread Chaim Frenkel
tion. Getting an efficient representation of a meaningful structure should be done a new data type. (I'm thinking of representing COBOL records/data, or even XML documents) -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: SvPV*

2000-11-22 Thread Chaim Frenkel
;m more inclined to think of the structured data type as a layer above the raw bits. I see the association of attributes with the underlying data as an extra 'service'. If for no other reason, there are many ways of having the attributes distribute across, deletions, additions, and

Re: To get things started...

2000-11-22 Thread Chaim Frenkel
g. (And that this will be able to parse code at acceptable speed.) Anyway, what does this have to do with the API? -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: To get things started...

2000-11-27 Thread Chaim Frenkel
go. ST> Perhaps we really need a new kind of regex that works by-design against ST> streams of bytes? ST> -sam -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: The external interface for the parser piece

2000-11-28 Thread Chaim Frenkel
S> Dan Sugalski even samurai DS> [EMAIL PROTECTED] have teddy bears and even DS> teddy bears get drunk -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: Backtracking through the source

2000-11-29 Thread Chaim Frenkel
$foo = s;foo;bar;g; $foo = s#foo#bar#g; # change the world -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: The external interface for the parser piece

2000-11-29 Thread Chaim Frenkel
cation' that needs to be aware of platform dependencies. Bootstraping could be accomplished with a thin stub layer over FILE *, with progressive iterations of PerlIO replacing the stub. -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: Opcodes (was Re: The external interface for the parser piece)

2000-11-30 Thread Chaim Frenkel
necessary? Why not a non-vtbl function that knows how to add numeric types? I would have wanted to limit the vtbl to self manipulation functions. Set, get, convert, etc. Cross object operations would/should be outside the realm of the object. (It seems like trying to lift yourself by the bootstraps.) -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: The external interface for the parser piece

2000-11-30 Thread Chaim Frenkel
JH> /* any others? */ JH> }; JH> should be used around SVs to ascertain that everything fits everywhere. I was under the impression that p6 was going to do away with p5's incestuous knowledge of hardware bits. And go with a more OO style of dispatch. -- Chaim Frenkel

Re: Opcodes (was Re: The external interface for the parser piece)

2000-12-02 Thread Chaim Frenkel
m of things we have specific routines DS> for. (I'm no OO programmer) I can't wrap my mind around how one can extend a OO hierarchy so that a low level (i.e. closer to the base class) can know about a future type. (I once tried to work through the Smalltalk hierarchy

Re: Proposal for groups

2000-12-05 Thread Chaim Frenkel
but no BMK> subscriber could post. Just be careful about the perl6-all redirection. Don't allow registration on both redirection lists. Hmm, How would this work? Headers would be re-written? How would 'critical' comments get to the -internals-design list? -- Chaim Frenkel

Re: Now, to try again...

2000-12-18 Thread Chaim Frenkel
So having line and offset information available in the output could be made available. -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: perl5 to perl6

2001-05-11 Thread Chaim Frenkel
^From\s+\S+\s+\S+\s+(\S+\s+\S+)/) { NT> @r = reverse split ' ', $who; NT> @r[0] = sprintf("%02d", @r[0]); NT> %count{"@r"}++; NT> } NT> } NT> foreach (sort %count) { NT> printf("%s: %3

Re: perl5 to perl6

2001-05-12 Thread Chaim Frenkel
>>>>> "NT" == Nathan Torkington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: NT> Chaim Frenkel writes: >> Those are all major typo inducing changes. >> >> You'll need alternative micro-code loads for your fingers, when >> switching between clien

Re: Toward an omnibus Perl 6 Exceptions RFC, v0.1.

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
more complex constructs. What in the simple methodology combined with Damian's switch monster, is missing? I'll hazard a guess that, if the complex syntax goes in and if there is no semantic issue, -internals will likely convert the complex version internally to a switch. So is it

Re: English language basis for "throw"

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
ht that the finally clause is executed under normal and exceptional conditions. I.e. there is no way to exit the context of the try block without going through the finally. -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Dual nature (was Re: Exceptions and Objects)

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
bj->method... } catch { } finally {} or $status = $obj->method... And have both work properly. -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: Towards a reasonable unwinding flow-control semantics.

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
pt { $@->any(... $_[0] ...) } => catch { } TO> except { $@->any(... $_[0] ...) } => catch { } TO> catch { } TO> Is this a problem? -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: RFC 107 (v1) lvalue subs should receive the rvalue as an argument

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
>>>>> "CN" == Chris Nandor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: CN> Can we please cut down on the traffic to perl-announce, maybe make it CN> moderated? Thanks, Perhaps, the esteemed Librarian could make the -announce a Bcc? -- Chaim Frenkel

Re: Toward an omnibus Perl 6 Exceptions RFC, v0.1.

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
unwind and a normal situation you would lose that fact. Hmm, unless you restore the value in the finally block. But that is confusing. I think you will find a reasonably even split between the two camps. One possible weight would be how often a caught exception would be rethrown. If the perc

Re: Dual nature (was Re: Exceptions and Objects)

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
n it would be the same as a return with no arguments. >>>>> "PS" == Peter Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: PS> At 10:16 AM 8/16/00 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote: >> One issue that haven't seen addressed, is how to _not_ have exceptions. >> >&

Re: RFC 118 (v1) lvalue subs: parameters, explicit assignment, and wantarray() changes

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
ine from knowing where PRL> one began and the other ended. Better would be if the rvalue were PRL> passed as a last or first argument, making it equivalent to: -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: Towards a reasonable unwinding flow-control semantics.

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
>>>>> "PS" == Peter Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: PS> At 07:10 PM 8/16/00 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote: >> >>>>> "PS" == Peter Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> PS> 1. When an exception is thrown perl l

Re: yoda 2

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
echanism that means, short circuit, but let the user know why. That selects either a non-local goto or a return mechanism depending upon context. (Dynamically within the control of a try/eval, or under pragmatic control requesting the non-local mechanism.) -- Chaim Frenkel

Re: Dual nature (was Re: Exceptions and Objects)

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
>>>>> "PS" == Peter Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: PS> At 07:00 PM 8/16/00 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote: >> Perhaps, throw can carry a return value? >> >> throw {"return value"} $exception; >> If there is an active try

Re: Towards a reasonable unwinding flow-control semantics.

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
much intimate knowledge of the caller. Lets keep it simple. I'm sure we can keep a slot open for an extra argument. Hmm, would the direct object slot be ameneable to a attribute? Would that help disambiguate things? foo :attr(value) @args

Re: RFC 82 (listops in list context)

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
>>>>> "NT" == Nathan Torkington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: NT> Chaim Frenkel writes: >> [use wacky Unicode characters for new operators] >> I can see that this would give problems for current editors and displays, >> but by the time perl6 c

Re: RFC 111 (v1) Whitespace and Here Docs

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
ke the programer work. Are those tabs or spaces? And it doesn't strip the leading whitespace. -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: RFC 104 (v1) Backtracking

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
>>>>> "MC" == Mark Cogan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> is equivalent to >> >> @a = (\$a, \$b, \$c); >> >> rather than what you wrote. MC> Ah, so it is. I'd argue that that's broken and should be handled with map MC&g

Re: Default filehandles(was Re: command line option: $|++)

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
I.e. $STDOUT should always mean one and only one file at a time. Unless one wants to have a $DEFAULT filehandle and get rid of single arg select. >>>>> "JSD" == Jonathan Scott Duff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: JSD> On Tue, Aug 15, 2000 at 06:53:30PM -0400, Chai

Re: RFC 99 (v2) Standardize ALL Perl platforms on UNIX epoch

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
nd you, the instantaneous time is correct. But calculating backwards to what the instantaneous time would have been, or calculating what the instanataneous time will be will not work. But your blurb would be a lie. How would one ensure the correct difference to the TAI? And what would be the tr

Re: RFC 82 (listops in list context)

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
time perl6 comes out, perhaps the situation would be better. (Now, if we add all that APL symbols ...) Thoughts? -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: RFC 99 (v2) Standardize ALL Perl platforms on UNIX epoch

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
Perl <-> Perl cross system will break. Perl <-> other program same system will break. Pick your poison. I'd rather have cross system break. But if the epoch were available then an adjustment could be made intellegently.

Re: RFC 118 (v1) lvalue subs: parameters, explicit assignment, and wantarray() changes

2000-08-17 Thread Chaim Frenkel
>param($var) += ... JV> $cgi->param($var) =~ s/// JV> for ( $cgi->param($var) ) { JV> $_ = ... JV> } JV> sysread($fh,$cgi->param($var),...) JV> and so on. -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: Internals WG, through August 15th

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
Err, when did this decision come about. I saw some discussion but I didn't notice when it became final. (I assume go, means be eliminated.) -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: RFC 130 (v1) Transaction-enabled variables for Perl6

2000-08-17 Thread Chaim Frenkel
re quite important in a database-enabled application. PRL> Professional database systems have transaction-handling inside, but PRL> there are only a few laguage out there, what supports transactions PRL> in variable level. -- Chaim Frenkel

Re: command line option: $|++

2000-08-15 Thread Chaim Frenkel
will have to implement it anyway. The only other choice would be to start a -environment (or some such) list, but I don't think there will be that much traffic. Actually, it might be appropriate for horos(?) complaint list. (How's that coming along?) -- Chaim Frenkel

Re: Language WG report, August 16th 2000

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
rd. The containing WG would report the results upward. -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: Default filehandles(was Re: command line option: $|++)

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
Thanks again. That's a bit strong. All we are doing is filtering the garbage for Larry. Larry may well be reading for flavour. And you forgot Rule #2. Larry can always change his mind. -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: Design by Contract for perl internals

2000-08-17 Thread Chaim Frenkel
will include or exclude them based on the build requested. >>>>> "MGS" == Michael G Schwern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: MGS> On Sun, Aug 13, 2000 at 07:16:41PM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote: >> What do you think of creating a mechanism for attaching pre

Re: RFC 118 (v1) lvalue subs: parameters, explicit assignment, and wantarray() changes

2000-08-17 Thread Chaim Frenkel
ing the assignment (what if an assignment DC> isn't what I want?). DC> The (overloaded) operator = should do the assignment. To whatever lvalue DC> the lvalue subroutine returns. DC> Or the "assignment" should be done by operator += or operator++ or DC&

Re: RFC 128 (v1) Subroutines: Extend subroutine contexts to include name parameters and lazy arguments

2000-08-17 Thread Chaim Frenkel
sorb the unused named parameters? DC> =head1 IMPLEMENTATION DC> Definitely S.E.P. What does that mean? -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: RFC 130 (v1) Transaction-enabled variables for Perl6

2000-08-18 Thread Chaim Frenkel
p for grabs. But if it participates then as far as the 'caller' or user is concerned it looks like a variable and acts like a variable. It must be a variable. >>>>> "d" == dLux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: d> /--- On Thu, Aug 17, 2000 at 06:17:51PM

Re: Towards a reasonable unwinding flow-control semantics.

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
ected/raised in the try block itself. I probably wouldn't want to route it through the local catches. The try block knows what the situation is, it did it. So the exception is aimed at the caller not at itself. -- Chaim Frenkel

Re: Towards a reasonable unwinding flow-control semantics.

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
t don't throw. You are imposing a style on your caller. A message would be appropriate (ala, die or warn) Also a use (within main or if it can work lexically) that would mean die_if_exception_thrown. Would treat the main routine as if it were wrapped in a try block th

Re: Do threads support SMP?

2000-08-19 Thread Chaim Frenkel
all <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: SWM> Does Perl6 support Symmetric MultiProcessing (SMP)? SWM> This is a *huge* issue. It affects everything else that we do with SWM> threads. -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: RFC 126 (v1) Ensuring Perl's object-oriented future

2000-08-19 Thread Chaim Frenkel
d of JDB> dynamic variables, and I've spent all evening being troubled by it. JDB> If that "currently" implies someone's thinking about this as a JDB> feature, maybe we really could do what I've been saying. JDB> Still chewing on various

Re: Thread usage cases

2000-08-19 Thread Chaim Frenkel
s building an optree and storing a pointer in the global namespace (or package perhaps.) BCW> (Assuming all program globals, of course.) BCW> Thread 1: $a = $b + $c; BCW> Thread 2: $d = $c / $a; BCW> Thread 1, doing statement locking, could lock these $a, $

Re: RFC 99 (v1) Maintain internal time in Modified Julian (not epoch)

2000-08-15 Thread Chaim Frenkel
o distribute portable time and date calcuations, as part of the core, we will have to live with whatever the system libraries give us. (I don't want to think about Leap Seconds just yet.) -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: RFC 130 (v1) Transaction-enabled variables for Perl6

2000-08-17 Thread Chaim Frenkel
to flock() involving mutexes DLN> and sending it to perl6-language? -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: RFC 84 (v1) Replace => (stringifying comma) with =>

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
/I had arbitrary ranges for array indices. Hmm, I feel an RFC coming on my @arr :low(-32000) :high(+32000); my @population :low(1900) :high(2039); $population[1923] = 323000; How about my @population[1900:2039]; Looks funny though. -- Chaim Frenkel

Re: RFC 83 (v2) Make constants look like variables

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
tant-ness in my mind is an attribute or modifer of the value or perhaps of the container. It has no bearing on the scoping or type of the value. -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: Make lvalue subs the default (was Re: RFC 107 (v1) lvalue subs should receive the rvalue as an argument)

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
s it great. You think there is a better _approach_ then tell the author. You are limited by what the author wrote. -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: RFC 84 (v1) Replace => (stringifying comma) with =>

2000-08-16 Thread Chaim Frenkel
t Man", "they given you a number and takin' way your name. What was the name of the show? "Secret Agent"? And what came first the song or the show? What was the real theme song? The title song was never played during t

Re: RFC 132 (v1) subroutines should be able to return an lvalue

2000-08-19 Thread Chaim Frenkel
r a way to find out how >> deep is the call stack. DC> That wouldn't help in this case, since it's a matter of whether the DC> programmer intended to pass by copy or alias here, and that isn't encoded DC> *anywhere* on the call stack. -- Chaim Frenkel

Re: RFC 118 (v1) lvalue subs: parameters, explicit assignment, and wantarray() changes

2000-08-19 Thread Chaim Frenkel
>>>>> "GB" == Graham Barr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: GB> On Fri, Aug 18, 2000 at 12:25:42AM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote: >> As Graham pointed out, is an lvalue sub supposed to act like a tie or >> like a variable. GB> Both. GB> As Damian poin

Re: RFC 128 (v1) Subroutines: Extend subroutine contexts to include name parameters and lazy arguments

2000-08-19 Thread Chaim Frenkel
>> in the prototype would absorb the unused named parameters? DC> Yes, I've been rethinking that in light of my immediately previous posting DC> about C. DC> I suspect that this constraint should only be applied under use strict, DC> or better yet under the

Re: RFC 132 (v1) subroutines should be able to return an lvalue

2000-08-19 Thread Chaim Frenkel
e subroutine definition (which is not a JV> problem per se), but also seem to require that the compiler knows it's JV> compiling an lvalue sub call, and hence this sub must be predeclared JV> or otherwise made known to the compiler. A sub is lvalued or not, and JV> the compiler must

Re: RFC 132 (v1) subroutines should be able to return an lvalue

2000-08-20 Thread Chaim Frenkel
to be appropropriate. These two should have different actions. $foo = &foo; &foo = $foo; Perl needs a value for one, and a reference for the other. JV> - make it unfeasable for methods. Why? All methods for the same OO hiera

Re: RFC 132 (v1) subroutines should be able to return an lvalue

2000-08-20 Thread Chaim Frenkel
o-> has to be called first. And the resulting reference queried about it's type. And then the want() will return the correct context. In the another_sub( lvalue_sub ), lvalue_sub has to be defered until the first time it is called. (Unless Damian thinks that reaccessing it each time will make mor

Re: RFC 23 (v4) Higher order functions

2000-08-20 Thread Chaim Frenkel
DC> http://dev.perl.org/rfc/ DC> =head1 TITLE DC> Higher order functions DC> =head1 VERSION DC> Maintainer: Damian Conway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> DC> Date: 4 August 2000 DC> Last Modified: 20 August 2000 DC> Version: 4 DC> M

Re: Draft 2 of RFC 88 version 2.

2000-08-21 Thread Chaim Frenkel
the TO> cases where you would want you use them takes less source code TO> with exceptions than with return code checking, as per the TO> CONVERSION section above. -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: RFC 88 v2 draft 5 is available via http.

2000-08-21 Thread Chaim Frenkel
il the debate about using else/switch instead of catch. Which switch? C's with fallthrough? Damian wants perl's switch to have no fallthrough. -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: On the case for exception-based error handling.

2000-08-21 Thread Chaim Frenkel
n $rc or a ++$i, not even one. You are preparing to force all programmers to your way of thinking? This is not what perl is about. I DONT WANT TO BE FORCED TO USE YOUR STYLE SIMPLY TO USE THE MODULES IN CPAN OR THAT SHIP WITH PERL. -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: Draft 3 of RFC 88 version 2.

2000-08-21 Thread Chaim Frenkel
instance variable TO> could point to a "stack snapshot" object, rather than to a data TO> structure. A mechanism like this is available in the Perl 5 TO> Devel bundle. If an RFC for such a snapshot class is added to TO> Perl 6, this RFC should be reconciled with

Re: RFC 88: Possible problem with shared lexical scope.

2000-08-21 Thread Chaim Frenkel
O> share lexical scope (due, perhaps, to the vagaries of stack TO> unwinding), this feature can simply be deleted, and the outer TO> scope can be shared. TO> Yours, &c, Tony Olekshy -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: RFC 88: Possible problem with shared lexical scope.

2000-08-21 Thread Chaim Frenkel
t at the end of this part of perlsyn PS> (which says the opposite, and is easily confirmed): I vaguely recall that Gurusamy fixed this one. -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: RFC 88: Possible problem with shared lexical scope.

2000-08-22 Thread Chaim Frenkel
>>>>> "DR" == Dave Rolsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: DR> On 22 Aug 2000, Chaim Frenkel wrote: >> Could you tell me why you would want two finallys? >> >> Why not put them into one? TO> my ($p, $q); TO> try { $p = P->new; $q = Q->

Re: RFC 118 (v1) lvalue subs: parameters, explicit assignment, andwantarray() changes

2000-08-23 Thread Chaim Frenkel
0]->{x} } DC># and one of... DC>post x { $_[0]->{x} >= 0 } # post condition on x attribute DC>ensure { $_[0]->{x} >= 0 } # class invariant -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: On the case for exception-based error handling.

2000-08-22 Thread Chaim Frenkel
hey use PS> Fatal-checking*** This is the Perl way anyway. Fatal checking, is for core functions. And optional for module authors. Then Fatal.pm and exception.pm could possibly be consolidated. -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: RFC 136 (v1) Implementation of hash iterators

2000-08-23 Thread Chaim Frenkel
would be stored) that is the iterator for (each %hash) {} becomes $hidden = iterator->new %hash while ($_ = $hidden->next) {} $hidden->done or something. -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: RFC 136 (v1) Implementation of hash iterators

2000-08-23 Thread Chaim Frenkel
s. Are there DBM's that don't understand nextkey? Isn't this the another version of having an indirection? DBM's that don't allow multiple iterators means the porter to the DBM has to supply a wrapper that does. -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Perl <-> OS API target

2000-08-23 Thread Chaim Frenkel
layer (yeah, I know another speed loss) that would be able to directly target the native threads library/api. The POSIX threads API would be the initial port but then we might be able to get some speed ups by going for the native implementation? -- Chaim Frenkel

Re: RFC 118 (v1) lvalue subs: parameters, explicit assignment, andwantarray() changes

2000-08-24 Thread Chaim Frenkel
;{x} } DC> post x : mandatory { $_[0]->{x} >= 0 } DC> Damian -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: RFC 88: Possible problem with shared lexical scope.

2000-08-22 Thread Chaim Frenkel
his is a perfect example where my 'no exceptions' would be handy. Just do all the cleanups and ignore any throws. (Yes, it still doesn't help you with the invariant but is much neater. And if it really is needed, then perhaps a finally block would simply automaticall a 'no exce

Re: On the case for exception-based error handling.

2000-08-23 Thread Chaim Frenkel
>>>>> "PS" == Peter Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: PS> At 02:28 PM 8/23/00 -0700, Glenn Linderman wrote: >> Chaim Frenkel wrote: >> >> > No, that should be the difference between die and throw. Die is >> > immediately fata

Re: On the case for exception-based error handling.

2000-08-22 Thread Chaim Frenkel
>>>>> "TO" == Tony Olekshy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: TO> Chaim Frenkel wrote: >> >> You are being extreme here. I use perl _because_ it is so >> forgiving. I can easily do unlink("foo.err") and not check >> return code

Re: RFC 127 (v1) Sane resolution to large function returns

2000-08-24 Thread Chaim Frenkel
ectation would be to have it become # $foo=1 $baz=2 @bar=(4) *blech*, I'm glad that you're doing the thinking. >>>>> "LW" == Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: LW> Chaim Frenkel writes: LW> : LW> P.S. I thin

Re: RFC 149 (v1) Lvalue subroutines: implicit and explicit assignment

2000-08-24 Thread Chaim Frenkel
nd you correctly the actual target of the assignment would be delayed. Which leads me to ... { my $foo = lvalue_with_lazy_return; $foo = 42; } I wouldn't want the 42 going, who knows where. I want the value of $foo replaced with 42. -- Chaim Frenkel

Re: RFC 154 (v1) Simple assignment lvalue subs should be on by default

2000-08-24 Thread Chaim Frenkel
odify it at will. If the lvalue is a fundemental type (whatever that is) everything works as if the lvalue were actually in place sub foo { return $a } foo =~ s///;# same as $a =~ s///; If $a is a user defined object, then the same _as if_ rule would apply and the object

Re: On the case for exception-based error handling.

2000-08-23 Thread Chaim Frenkel
e TO> to generate and propagate exceptions (die and $@) as it does now, TO> so we don't break tradition. No, that should be the difference between die and throw. Die is immediately fatal. (i.e. current semantics) throw is new and does the magic. We get no breakage that way. -- Chaim Fren

Re: RFC 154 (v1) Simple assignment lvalue subs should be on by default

2000-08-25 Thread Chaim Frenkel
ing to do with $p->format) @user = ($uid, $x, $magic) = split /:/, ; Or perhaps something along the lines of ksh's <() syntax? @user = ($uid, $x, >($p->format)) = ... -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183

Re: RFC 140 (v1) One Should Not Get Away With Ignoring System Call Errors

2000-08-24 Thread Chaim Frenkel
first use. But the drawback would be that the actual victim may not be the primal cause. sub foo { my $fh = open(); ... Lots more code ... return $fh; } $victim = foo; print $victim "I'm helpless";

Something akin to ksh's <() and >() syntax

2000-08-25 Thread Chaim Frenkel
t;>) { (<{proc_arg1}, <{proc_arg2}) = split; } Damian, You have coroutines/generators out there. What about a data sink? Anything you have currently proposed that would do this neatly. -- Chaim FrenkelNonlin

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