Re: Time for a Revolution

On Thursday 13 July 2006 23:37, H.Merijn Brand wrote: > If I got it right, the wish that was expressed is more like the wish for > an installer with a GUI. Nope, just for a nice, easily-installable bundle of modules that work around the unpleasant backwards compatibilities and warts of Perl 5.

Re: Time for a Revolution

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 01:25:51 +0200, "A. Pagaltzis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > * chromatic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-07-14 00:55]: > > Sure, but it's only one thing people need to remember. One > > thing is easier than N things, especially as N changes every > > time the core changes. > > Yes,

Re: Time for a Revolution

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 23:52:02 -0700, chromatic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thursday 13 July 2006 23:37, H.Merijn Brand wrote: > > > If I got it right, the wish that was expressed is more like the wish for > > an installer with a GUI. > > Nope, just for a nice, easily-installable bundle of mod

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!) -- Explained

I think that Jonathan meant for his reply to my message to go to the list, so I am including it in its entirety, in my reply. At 11:23 PM -0700 7/13/06, Jonathan Lang wrote: Darren Duncan wrote: Jonathan Lang wrote: So the purpose of === is to provide a means of comparison that doesn't implic

optimizing with === immutable comparitor

This may go without saying, but ... If $a === $b means what I think it does, then I believe that a not-premature implementation optimization of === would be that it always $a := $b if it was returning true, so that any future === of $a and $b or aliases thereof could short-circuit with a =:= t

Re: optimizing with === immutable comparitor

On Friday 14 July 2006 00:30, Darren Duncan wrote: > This may go without saying, but ... > > If $a === $b means what I think it does, then I believe that a > not-premature implementation optimization of === would be that it > always $a := $b if it was returning true, so that any future === of > $a

CORRECTION: optimizing with === immutable comparitor

At 12:30 AM -0700 7/14/06, Darren Duncan wrote: If $a === $b means what I think it does, then I believe that a not-premature implementation optimization of === would be that it always $a := $b if it was returning true, so that any future === of $a and $b or aliases thereof could short-circuit w

Testing code that forks

Hi all, what is the current best practices for testing code that forks? I saw there was a recent discussion about patching Test::More to support forking. Is that going to happen or are there better ways to do it? Gabor

Re: PL/Parrot

On Thu, Jul 13, 2006 at 12:57:18PM -0400, Butler, Gerald wrote: > Would it make sense to implement the PostgreSQL SPI interface as a > set of Parrot PMC's; then ANY HLL on Parrot could use those PMC's? > Or could the SPI be wrapped by PERL for example, and then the OTHER > HLL's simply use the cla

[perl #39829] [PATCH] accept() always fails

# New Ticket Created by Kay-Uwe Huell # Please include the string: [perl #39829] # in the subject line of all future correspondence about this issue. # http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=39829 > Hi parrot, unfortunatly you fail when I call your accept() op. I have fixed this issue

Re: [perl #39796] [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

Am Freitag, 14. Juli 2006 04:02 schrieb Will Coleda via RT: > Whoops, re-opening. > > This apparently isn't quite ready yet, as converting tcl to use the new > syntax results in a nearly- complete fail of the test suite. > > Per Audrey: .loadlib 'dynlexpad' stopped working, because > Parrot_regist

Re: [perl #39829] [PATCH] accept() always fails

Am Donnerstag, 13. Juli 2006 23:41 schrieb Kay-Uwe Huell: > Hi parrot, > > unfortunatly you fail when I call your accept() op. I have fixed this > issue with attached patch. >The Parrot documentation can now be accessed at http://localhost:1234 . >accept: errno=22unknown method:'' I don'

RE: PL/Parrot

Would it make sense to implement the PostgreSQL SPI interface as a set of Parrot PMC's; then ANY HLL on Parrot could use those PMC's? Or could the SPI be wrapped by PERL for example, and then the OTHER HLL's simply use the classes/objects of the PERL interface? -Original Message- From: D

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!) -- Explained

Yuval Kogman writes: > So, Larry assisted by Audrey explained the purpose of === vs eqv vs > =:=. I'm afraid I still don't get it. Or rather, while I can manage to read an explanation of what one of these operators does and see how it applies to the variables in the examples next to it, I am str

Re: [perl #39796] [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

在 2006/7/14 上午 5:26 時，Leopold Toetsch via RT 寫到： Err, t/dynpmc/dynlexpad.t is using .loadlib and is testing fine. Please try to provide a minimal parrot test showing the problem. Trying (though it remained a bit elusive), but if you "make realclean", and then change languages/tcl/src/tcls

Re: CORRECTION: optimizing with === immutable comparitor

Darren Duncan schreef: > What I propose concerning non-premature === optimizing is a system > where, at any time that two appearances of the same immutable value > are compared with ===, they are immediately consolidated into a > single appearance. That should only be done voluntarily. A bit like

Re: [perl #39796] [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

在 2006/7/14 上午 6:45 時，Audrey Tang 寫到： Changing it back to :immediate makes tests pass again. Alternately, skipping the Parrot_register_HLL part in IMCC makes tests pass again. After several rounds of trial-and-error, I've committed r13294 that works around the problem: * Tcl: Change bac

Re: Time for a Revolution

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 07:45:55 -0400, "Clayton O'Neill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Why off-list? this is a good reaction. > On 7/14/06, H.Merijn Brand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Look at the list of modules I include in my perl distributions for HP-UX at > > http://mirrors.develooper.com/hpux/#P

Re: [perl #39796] [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

So, does .loadlib wipe the current .HLL pragma that's in effect? (if it's intereacting with the other dot-pragmas, we need to document.) Regards. On Jul 14, 2006, at 7:17 AM, Audrey Tang wrote: 在 2006/7/14 上午 6:45 時，Audrey Tang 寫到： Changing it back to :immediate makes tests pass again. Al

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!) -- Explained

On Fri, Jul 14, 2006 at 11:42:24 +0100, Smylers wrote: > I'm afraid I still don't get it. > > Or rather, while I can manage to read an explanation of what one of > these operators does and see how it applies to the variables in the > examples next to it, I am struggling to retain a feeling of _wh

Re: optimizing with === immutable comparitor

On Fri, Jul 14, 2006 at 00:30:20 -0700, Darren Duncan wrote: > This may go without saying, but ... ... This is a VM issue. It clarifies semantics, and the runtime VM may choose to do this freely for simple values (but not for objects which just pretend using .id). In short: yes, the semantics al

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!) -- Explained

Yuval Kogman writes: > On Fri, Jul 14, 2006 at 11:42:24 +0100, Smylers wrote: > > > Or rather, while I can manage to read an explanation of what one of > > these operators does and see how it applies to the variables in the > > examples next to it, I am struggling to retain a feeling of _why_ I >

Re: [perl #39829] [PATCH] accept() always fails

On Jul 14, 2006, at 4:56 AM, Leopold Toetsch wrote: Am Donnerstag, 13. Juli 2006 23:41 schrieb Kay-Uwe Huell: Hi parrot, unfortunatly you fail when I call your accept() op. I have fixed this issue with attached patch. The Parrot documentation can now be accessed at http:// localhost:123

Re: Run time dispatch on ~~

On Fri, 2006-07-14 at 00:08 +0300, Yuval Kogman wrote: > Also, sometimes i am matching on behalf of my caller, this is very > common in dispatch algorithms, or things like tree visitors: > > my @list = $tree.filter_children( $match ); # very generic and useful It's really the fact that tha

Re: Run time dispatch on ~~

Aaron Sherman schreef: > given $_ { >when $x {...} > } > > or > > $_ ~~ $x Can that be written as ".~~ $x"? -- Affijn, Ruud "Gewoon is een tijger."

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!) -- Explained

Darren Duncan wrote: Now, I didn't see them yet anywhere in Synopsis 3, but I strongly recommend having negated versions of all these various types of equality tests. Eg, !== for ===, nev for eqv, etc. They would be used very frequently, I believe (and I have even tried to do so), and of cour

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!) -- Explained

Darren Duncan wrote: Assuming that all elements of $a and $b are themselves immutable to all levels of recursion, === then does a full deep copy like eqv. If at any level we get a mutable object, then at that point it turns into =:= (a trivial case) and stops. ( 1, "2.0", 3 ) === ( 1,2,3

Re: Time for a Revolution

chromatic wrote: Why is there not a Bundle::PerlPlus (and yes, I've lathered up my yak with that name) that downloads and installs the modules that should have been in the box? For one, that should be "Task::PerlPlus". :-) Second, for any pre-packaged distribution like Strawberry Perl (see

Re: CPANDB - was: Module::Dependency 1.84

* Tels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-07-14 02:40]: > announced to early - now everybody tells me how I have to > implement it and why my way wont work You were saying Adam’s way is inferior to your way. I disagreed. That’s about the size of it. Regards, -- Aristotle Pagaltzis //

Re: Time for a Revolution

On Friday 14 July 2006 08:18, David Golden wrote: > Or, perhaps we need the "Perl CPAN Cookbook" -- which would be like the > Cookbook but focuses *only* on the greatest-hits modules across all the > same categories.  If CPAN is one of Perl's greatest strengths, shouldn't > that get more attention

[svn:parrot-pdd] r13295 - in trunk: . docs/pdds

Author: allison Date: Fri Jul 14 12:21:29 2006 New Revision: 13295 Modified: trunk/docs/pdds/pdd21_namespaces.pod Changes in other areas also in this revision: Modified: trunk/ (props changed) Log: [pdds]: Namespaces - A new plan for easier access to the various virtual namespace roots.

Re: Time for a Revolution

On Friday 14 July 2006 12:27, Jonathan Rockway wrote: > A book like this is something that's been in the back of my mind for a > while. If there were real interest in this topic (and I think there > is), I would be happy to help out in a significant way, like writing > several chapters. > > If so

suggestions for new pdd21

Allison just updated pdd21, it looks great! Here's a first cut at some suggested changes and wordsmithing to the text. Feel free to adopt, ignore, or discuss any of the suggestions below as you see fit. : A non-nested namespace may appear in Parrot source code as the string : C<"a"> or the key C

Re: Time for a Revolution

Or, perhaps we need the "Perl CPAN Cookbook" -- which would be like the Cookbook but focuses *only* on the greatest-hits modules across all the same categories. If CPAN is one of Perl's greatest strengths, shouldn't that get more attention, too? Er, right. Now let me don my editor hat.

Re: Run time dispatch on ~~

On Fri, Jul 14, 2006 at 04:34:26PM +0200, Dr.Ruud wrote: : Aaron Sherman schreef: : : > given $_ { : >when $x {...} : > } : > : > or : > : > $_ ~~ $x : : Can that be written as ".~~ $x"? No, but you might just possibly get away with writing: .infix:<~~>($x) assuming that the $_.foo(

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!) -- Explained

"Mark A. Biggar" schreef: > Darren Duncan: >> Now, I didn't see them yet anywhere in Synopsis 3, but I strongly >> recommend having negated versions of all these various types of >> equality tests. Eg, !== for ===, nev for eqv, etc. They would be >> used very frequently, I believe (and I have ev

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!) -- Explained

At 9:22 AM -0700 7/14/06, Dave Whipp wrote: Darren Duncan wrote: Assuming that all elements of $a and $b are themselves immutable to all levels of recursion, === then does a full deep copy like eqv. If at any level we get a mutable object, then at that point it turns into =:= (a trivial cas

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!) -- Explained

At 6:55 PM +0200 7/14/06, Dr.Ruud wrote: > say "foo" if $x !== $y; into say "foo" unless $x === $y; And how about symmetry: say "foo" unless $y === $x; > very unreliable. Any equality or inequality operator is commutative, so it doesn't matter whether you have $x and $y or $y

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!) -- Explained

On Thu, Jul 13, 2006 at 10:56:59PM -0700, Darren Duncan wrote: : Now, I didn't see them yet anywhere in Synopsis 3, but I strongly : recommend having negated versions of all these various types of : equality tests. Eg, !== for ===, nev for eqv, etc. They would be : used very frequently, I beli

Re: Run time dispatch on ~~

Larry Wall schreef: > Dr.Ruud: >> Aaron Sherman: >>> $_ ~~ $x >> >> Can that be written as ".~~ $x"? > > No, but you might just possibly get away with writing: > > .infix:<~~>($x) > > assuming that the $_.foo($x) SMD eventually fails over to foo($_,$x) > MMD. But that doesn't seem to be much

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!) -- Explained

At 12:55 PM -0700 7/14/06, Larry Wall wrote: On Thu, Jul 13, 2006 at 10:56:59PM -0700, Darren Duncan wrote (edited): : Now, I didn't see them yet anywhere in Synopsis 3, but I strongly : recommend having negated versions of all these various types of : equality tests. Eg, !=== for ===, !eqv for

Fwd: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!) -- Explained

Dave Whipp wrote: Darren Duncan wrote: > Assuming that all elements of $a and $b are themselves immutable to all > levels of recursion, === then does a full deep copy like eqv. If at any > level we get a mutable object, then at that point it turns into =:= (a > trivial case) and stops. ( 1,

Re: Time for a Revolution

On 7/14/06, H.Merijn Brand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Look at the list of modules I include in my perl distributions for HP-UX at http://mirrors.develooper.com/hpux/#Perl and you might get an idea of what I think are useful modules that my work more effective. Not quite like yours is it? I thin

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!) -- Explained

On Fri, Jul 14, 2006 at 09:22:10 -0700, Dave Whipp wrote: > Darren Duncan wrote: > > >Assuming that all elements of $a and $b are themselves immutable to all > >levels of recursion, === then does a full deep copy like eqv. If at any > >level we get a mutable object, then at > >that point it tu

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!) -- Explained

Darren Duncan schreef: > Dr.Ruud: >>>say "foo" if $x !== $y; >>> into >>>say "foo" unless $x === $y; >> >> And how about symmetry: >>say "foo" unless $y === $x; > > Any equality or inequality operator is commutative, If $x and $y are not of the same type, and one or both of the involv

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!) -- Explained

On 7/14/06, David Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 7/13/06, Yuval Kogman wrote: >So, Larry assisted by Audrey explained the purpose of === vs eqv vs =:=. >It makes sense now, but I still feel that as far as ergonomics go >this is not perfect. I think I understand it... (my only quibble with

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!) -- Explained

On Thu, Jul 13, 2006 at 10:19:24PM -0600, David Green wrote: : On 7/13/06, Yuval Kogman wrote: : >So, Larry assisted by Audrey explained the purpose of === vs eqv vs =:=. : >It makes sense now, but I still feel that as far as ergonomics go : >this is not perfect. : : I think I understand it... (m

Re: Time for a Revolution

--- Clayton O'Neill wrote: > I think a core difference between your list and Chromatic's is that > yours would be part of the standard library in a lot of languages, > whereas Chromatic seems to be aiming more for things that would be > part of the language. Who's Chromatic? /-\

[svn:perl6-synopsis] r10215 - doc/trunk/design/syn

Author: larry Date: Fri Jul 14 17:00:12 2006 New Revision: 10215 Modified: doc/trunk/design/syn/S03.pod Log: Differentiate === from eqv and clarify semantics. Redefine cmp and add leg operator for old semantics. Add ! metaoperator. Fix random typos. Modified: doc/trunk/design/syn/S03.pod ===

PDD 23 Exceptions - ready for implementation

I've had an idea. One way to ensure that a handler is not in scope when invoked (though possibly not the only way) is to keep the list of active handlers in a dynamic variable binding. The code for C can then *rebind* that variable, popping handlers off (in a way that is not destructive, i.e.

Re: PDD 23 Exceptions - ready for implementation

On Sat, Jul 08, 2006 at 04:51:38PM -0700, Allison Randal wrote: > Chip did a fantastic job on the Exceptions PDD. With a few refinements, > I'm pronouncing it "ready to implement". Excellent. Mad properties to Allison for creating the first draft (updating is so much easier than starting from

Re: PDD 23 Exceptions - ready for implementation

On Friday 14 July 2006 16:07, Bob Rogers wrote: > One way to ensure that a handler is not in scope > when invoked (though possibly not the only way) is to keep the list of > active handlers in a dynamic variable binding. Here's what I don't understand. Why is there talk of a stack to keep track

[svn:perl6-synopsis] r10216 - doc/trunk/design/syn

Author: larry Date: Fri Jul 14 17:15:46 2006 New Revision: 10216 Modified: doc/trunk/design/syn/S03.pod Log: More types and such. Modified: doc/trunk/design/syn/S03.pod == --- doc/trunk/design/syn/S03.pod(ori

Re: Time for a Revolution

On Sat, Jul 15, 2006 at 08:36:54AM +1000, Andrew Savige wrote: > --- Clayton O'Neill wrote: > > I think a core difference between your list and Chromatic's is that > > yours would be part of the standard library in a lot of languages, > > whereas Chromatic seems to be aiming more for things that wo

Re: Time for a Revolution

On Friday 14 July 2006 17:59, Andrew Savige wrote: > I thought Chromatic might be the name of chromatic's father or older > brother. No, that's Mixolydian and Ionian, respectively. -- c (Yes, of course my mother is Dorian. What were you thinking?)

Re: Time for a Revolution

--- Nicholas Clark wrote: > On Sat, Jul 15, 2006 at 08:36:54AM +1000, Andrew Savige wrote: > > Who's Chromatic? > > And it wasn't even the start of a sentence. :-) > > [When doing the perl 6 summaries, Piers reconciled the forces of accuracy and > traditional grammar by ensuring by always rephras

Re: Time for a Revolution

On Jul 14, 2006, at 8:03 PM, chromatic wrote: On Friday 14 July 2006 17:59, Andrew Savige wrote: I thought Chromatic might be the name of chromatic's father or older brother. No, that's Mixolydian and Ionian, respectively. -- c (Yes, of course my mother is Dorian. What were you thinking?)

Re: TAP diagnostic syntax proposal

~ Pragmatics: TAP 2 must allow users to understand all relevant information. if there's language or a method of presentation or other WTDI that is understood by a wider audience, it must be used over one understood by a smaller audience. i hope this categorization makes sense, and you find it hel

Re: TAP diagnostic syntax proposal

To summarize. What TAP uses is irrelevant, as long as it works. What the Harness prints is relevant, but easy to fix any time. No worries about TAP 1.0 vs. TAP 1.1, just download the new Test:Harness from CPAN and everything will work. Right? Wrong. Well, maybe... Sometimes it could be ye

Re: Time for a Revolution

Unlike what others said, "core" perl shouldn't be the vehicle for this, most likely, given the more stringent support and backwards compatibility. We want to be able to change the composition of "PerlPlus" overtime, and once things go into core, they're pretty stuck. I should note for the rec

Re: CPANDB - was: Module::Dependency 1.84

Plus, I planned to use YAML because it creates a _much_ less heavy overhead and dependency chain. Using SQLite or similiar is what really creates the problems with CPANTS - you cant just access the raw database without the front-end. Erm, I'm not sure I get you here. The main problem with all th

Re: CPANDB - was: Module::Dependency 1.84

A. Pagaltzis wrote: * Tels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-07-14 02:40]: announced to early - now everybody tells me how I have to implement it and why my way wont work You were saying Adam’s way is inferior to your way. I disagreed. That’s about the size of it. I agree my way is inferior, especia

Re: Time for a Revolution

Adam Kennedy wrote: Unlike what others said, "core" perl shouldn't be the vehicle for this, most likely, given the more stringent support and backwards compatibility. We want to be able to change the composition of "PerlPlus" overtime, and once things go into core, they're pretty stuck. I sh

Re: [svn:perl6-synopsis] r10215 - doc/trunk/design/syn

At 5:00 PM -0700 7/14/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Author: larry Date: Fri Jul 14 17:00:12 2006 New Revision: 10215 Modified: doc/trunk/design/syn/S03.pod Log: Differentiate === from eqv and clarify semantics. Redefine cmp and add leg operator for old semantics. Add ! metaoperator. Fix rando