Re: TAP diagnostic syntax proposal

* Adam Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-07-12 06:10]: > Fair enough a "Layer 1" TAP parser might not care, but why not > make it as equally easy to implement a "Layer 2" parser as > well. +1 Did you guys consider the problem of newlines in content? Regards, -- Aristotle Pagaltzis //

Re: TAP Namespace Nonproliferation Treaty

Ian Langworth writes: > Ovid: TAP::Parser::Pedantic > > Schwern: TAP::Parser::Heuristic That's the best idea: nobody claiming that his particular parser is _the_ TAP::Parser (or even _the_ TAPx::Parser), but giving them parallel names with adjectives that hint at ways in which they differ. Even

Re: [svn:perl6-synopsis] r10077 - doc/trunk/design/syn

[EMAIL PROTECTED] commits: > New Revision: 10077 > Modified: doc/trunk/design/syn/S02.pod > == > > -foo.bar # foo().bar -- postfix prevents args > +foo.bar # foo().bar -- illegal postfix

fetching module version from the command line

While checking if the versions of all the modules are as required in our installation I am using the following one liner to fetch the version numbers. perl -MModule -e'print $Module::VERSION' Some of the modules print extra error messages and some print only error messages. I have sent e-mail to

Re: fetching module version from the command line

On 7/12/06, Gabor Szabo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: While checking if the versions of all the modules are as required in our installation I am using the following one liner to fetch the version numbers. perl -MModule -e'print $Module::VERSION' This one-liner doesn't work all the time in modul

Re: fetching module version from the command line

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:41:16 +0300, "Gabor Szabo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > While checking if the versions of all the modules are as > required in our installation I am using the following one liner to > fetch the version numbers. > > perl -MModule -e'print $Module::VERSION' Not really reliab

Re: fetching module version from the command line

"Gabor Szabo" wrote in perl.qa : > While checking if the versions of all the modules are as > required in our installation I am using the following one liner to > fetch the version numbers. > > perl -MModule -e'print $Module::VERSION' You should probably use -mModule to avoid calling Module::impor

Re: [svn:perl6-synopsis] r10077 - doc/trunk/design/syn

Smylers wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] commits: New Revision: 10077 Modified: doc/trunk/design/syn/S02.pod == -foo.bar # foo().bar -- postfix prevents args +foo.bar# foo().bar -- illegal postfix

Re: fetching module version from the command line

On 12 Jul 2006 11:52:07 -, Rafael Garcia-Suarez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "Gabor Szabo" wrote in perl.qa : > > While checking if the versions of all the modules are as > > required in our installation I am using the following one liner to > > fetch the version numbers. > > > > perl -MModule

Re: TAP diagnostic syntax proposal

Jonathan T. Rockway wrote: I agree that "got" is generally a good word to avoid in formal writing, but in a testing protocol I think that it's an acceptable abbreviation No! Do not accept inferior substitutes, strive for perfection. for "the actual result". Especially since "received" doesn'

Re: TAP diagnostic syntax proposal

On 7/11/06, Adam Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Fair enough a "Layer 1" TAP parser might not care, but why not make it as equally easy to implement a "Layer 2" parser as well. Bingo. -- Ian Langworth

Re: TAP diagnostic syntax proposal

Did you guys consider the problem of newlines in content? This is a good question. Implementing your own file format means you have a big-bag-o-quoting problems. How do you print a verbatim newline? What about a verbatim single quote? What about Unicode? What about a new line then "

Re: fetching module version from the command line

On Jul 12, 2006, at 03:41, Gabor Szabo wrote: perl -MModule -e'print $Module::VERSION' I have this alias set up: function pv () { perl -M$1 -le "print $1->VERSION"; } I think that calling ->VERSION is more correct. Best, David

Re: [perl #39777] Macro array considered lame

On Mon, Jul 10, 2006 at 12:09:08AM -0500, Vishal Soni wrote: > -#define N_MACROS 4096 > +#define N_MACROS 8192 Thanks, applied. But we can all see where this is going. Will no one rid me of this troublesome fixed-size array for macros? -- Chip Salzenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

[perl #39802] [PATCH] [CAGE] turning up the warnings levels in gcc as much as we can

# New Ticket Created by Kevin Tew # Please include the string: [perl #39802] # in the subject line of all future correspondence about this issue. # http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=39802 > turning up the warnings levels in gcc as much as we can =item C<--cage> [CAGE] compile in

Re: Ruby on Parrot

On Tue, Jul 11, 2006 at 02:41:19PM -0600, Kevin Tew wrote: > It parses my simple puts.rb example, but parse time is really slow.. 2 > minutes. > I'm sure I've made some dumb grammar mistakes that is slowing it down. Well, the first thing to note is that subrule calls can be comparatively slow, s

Re: [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 12:14:21AM -0400, Audrey Tang wrote: > Allison and Chip expressed their go-ahead with a .loadlib pragma, to > replace this current use: > > .sub foo :immediate > $I0 = loadlib "XXX" > .end > > With this: > > .loadlib "XXX" Done, r13262. Actually loading libs matc

Re: TAP diagnostic syntax proposal

* Jonathan Rockway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-07-12 17:50]: > Things to think about :) This is the time in our program where we stop to consider what it means that DJB, who wrote that advice/rant, also wrote an RFC2822 parser. Regards, -- Aristotle Pagaltzis //

Re: CPANDB - was: Module::Dependency 1.84

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Moin, On Wednesday 12 July 2006 03:13, David Golden wrote: > Tels wrote: > > My idea was to build _only_ the database, and do it right, simple and > > easy to use and then get everyone else to just use the DB instead of > > fiddling with their own. (s

Re: [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

It occurs to me, after thinking about it overnight, that the .loadlib directive shouldn't operate at :immediate time, but at :init time, because it's more common to want a library to load when you run the code than to load only when you compile the code. Which leaves us with :immediate for the

Easy Str === Str question: what is a reference type

S03 says: Binary === tests type and value correspondence: for two value types, tests whether they are the same value (eg. 1 === 1); for two reference types, checks whether they have the same identity value. For reference types that do not define an identity, the

===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!)

Over at #perl6 we had a short discussion on =:=, ===, and ~~, mostly raised by ajs's discussion on Str items and ===. After a brief discussion we managed to formulate several questions that we feel are slightly to totally unresolved. 1. what is .id on references? Is it related to the memory slot,

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!)

If we do have deep value equality checks, then "default" == and eq are probably: sub &infix:<==> ( $x, $y ) { +$x === +$y; } sub &infix: ( $x, $y ) { ~$x === ~$y; } So that the compare-as-sometype behavior is retained from perl 5 wi

Another quick one: .as

I would assume that all classes automatically define: multi submethod *infix: ($self: $?CLASS) { $self } so that derived classes can automatically: $obj.as Without actually changing their implementation details (only the type that Perl currently thinks it's dealing with polymorphically). In

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!)

Jedai and I went through some of pugs current implementations. Here's a list of what we expect the operators to return and what they currently do. This does not exactly agree with S03 right now, but is our opinion. Force into a type before comparing values: 42 == 42 - true, same numeric

Re: TAP diagnostic syntax proposal

If only we had some kind of standard language for marking things up that was extensible... and wasn't met with universal disapproval, F On 12/07/06, Jonathan Rockway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Did you guys consider the problem of newlines in content? > This is a good question. Implementin

Re: [svn:perl6-synopsis] r10077 - doc/trunk/design/syn

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 08:40:53AM -0400, Aaron Sherman wrote: : Smylers wrote: : >[EMAIL PROTECTED] commits: : > : > : >>New Revision: 10077 : >>Modified: doc/trunk/design/syn/S02.pod : >>== : >> : >>-foo.bar

[perl #39799] [PATCH] pmclass brace indentation

# New Ticket Created by willie # Please include the string: [perl #39799] # in the subject line of all future correspondence about this issue. # http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=39799 > fixes the indentation of the pmclass's closing brace and the last method's closing brace in s

Re: CPANDB - was: Module::Dependency 1.84

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 03:03:14AM +0200, Tels wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Moin Tim, > > On Tuesday 11 July 2006 18:34, Tim Bunce wrote: > > I needed some code to trawl through a directory tree parsing perl > > modules and scripts to determine their dependencies.

Re: [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 10:25:43AM -0700, Allison Randal wrote: > It occurs to me, after thinking about it overnight, that the .loadlib > directive shouldn't operate at :immediate time, but at :init time, > because it's more common to want a library to load when you run the code > than to load o

Re: [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 10:25:43AM -0700, Allison Randal wrote: > It occurs to me, after thinking about it overnight, that the .loadlib > directive shouldn't operate at :immediate time, but at :init time, > because it's more common to want a library to load when you run the code > than to load o

[perl #39801] [PATCH] adding examples\shootout\spectralnorm.pir

# New Ticket Created by Michal Jurosz # Please include the string: [perl #39801] # in the subject line of all future correspondence about this issue. # http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=39801 > Implement spectralnorm shootout benchmark ( http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/sandbox/b

Creating a New Object (was Re: [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC)

On Wednesday 12 July 2006 11:27, Patrick R. Michaud wrote: > The perl6 compiler has a custom string type, currently called > "Perl6Str". What's the canonically correct mechanism for creating > an object of that type? > > $P0 = new 'Perl6Str' > $P0 = new .Perl6Str > $P0 = new [ 'Perl6S

Re: [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

On 7/12/06, Patrick R. Michaud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The perl6 compiler has a custom string type, currently called "Perl6Str". What's the canonically correct mechanism for creating an object of that type? $P0 = new 'Perl6Str' $P0 = new .Perl6Str $P0 = new [ 'Perl6Str' ] At dif

Re: Creating a New Object (was Re: [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC)

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 11:36:56AM -0700, chromatic wrote: > On Wednesday 12 July 2006 11:27, Patrick R. Michaud wrote: > > The perl6 compiler has a custom string type, currently called > > "Perl6Str". What's the canonically correct mechanism for creating > > an object of that type? > > > > $P

Re: [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 01:27:24PM -0500, Patrick R. Michaud wrote: > The perl6 compiler has a custom string type, currently called > "Perl6Str". What's the canonically correct mechanism for creating > an object of that type? > > $P0 = new 'Perl6Str' > $P0 = new .Perl6Str > $P0 = ne

Re: [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

Leopold Toetsch wrote: Well, there was already one very legitimate usage of compile time loadlib, which is now using C<.loadlib> for that: We certainly need both compile-time and runtime loading of libraries. So, it's just a question of which syntax to use for which case. chromatic suggests

Re: Creating a New Object (was Re: [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC)

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 01:55:39PM -0500, Patrick R. Michaud wrote: > On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 11:36:56AM -0700, chromatic wrote: > > On Wednesday 12 July 2006 11:27, Patrick R. Michaud wrote: > > > The perl6 compiler has a custom string type, currently called > > > "Perl6Str". What's the canonical

Re: [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

On Jul 12, 2006, at 3:18 PM, Allison Randal wrote: Leopold Toetsch wrote: Well, there was already one very legitimate usage of compile time loadlib, which is now using C<.loadlib> for that: We certainly need both compile-time and runtime loading of libraries. So, it's just a question of wh

Re: [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 12:18:51PM -0700, Allison Randal wrote: > Leopold Toetsch wrote: > > > >Well, there was already one very legitimate usage of compile time > >loadlib, which is now using C<.loadlib> for that: > > We certainly need both compile-time and runtime loading of libraries. > So, it

[perl #39796] [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

# New Ticket Created by Autrijus Tang # Please include the string: [perl #39796] # in the subject line of all future correspondence about this issue. # http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=39796 > Allison and Chip expressed their go-ahead with a .loadlib pragma, to replace this cur

Re: Creating a New Object (was Re: [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC)

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 01:55:39PM -0500, Patrick R. Michaud wrote: > On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 11:36:56AM -0700, chromatic wrote: > > On Wednesday 12 July 2006 11:27, Patrick R. Michaud wrote: > > > > > > $P0 = new 'Perl6Str' > > > > I tend to use: > > > > .local int str_type > > str_t

Re: [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

From: Leopold Toetsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 21:15:44 +0200 On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 01:27:24PM -0500, Patrick R. Michaud wrote: > The perl6 compiler has a custom string type, currently called > "Perl6Str". What's the canonically correct mechanism for creating

Re: [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 12:18:51PM -0700, Allison Randal wrote: > Leopold Toetsch wrote: > > > > Well, there was already one very legitimate usage of compile time > > loadlib, which is now using C<.loadlib> for that: > > We certainly need both compile-time and runtime loading of libraries. > So,

Re: [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 03:51:53PM -0400, Bob Rogers wrote: >From: Leopold Toetsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 21:15:44 +0200 > >On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 01:27:24PM -0500, Patrick R. Michaud wrote: >> The perl6 compiler has a custom string type, currently called >

Re: [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 03:51:53PM -0400, Bob Rogers wrote: > So the type is bound to a number in the .pbc? Isn't this dangerous for > types that are not built in? Couldn't this number mean something > different if libraries happen to get loaded in a different order? The declaration order of PM

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!)

On Wed, 2006-07-12 at 19:25 +0300, Yuval Kogman wrote: > Over at #perl6 we had a short discussion on =:=, ===, and ~~, mostly raised by > ajs's discussion on Str items and ===. *wave* > 1. what is .id on references? Is it related to the memory slot, like refaddr() > in Perl 5? That's something I

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!)

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 04:16:13PM -0400, Aaron Sherman wrote: > On Wed, 2006-07-12 at 19:25 +0300, Yuval Kogman wrote: > > 4. will we have a deep (possibly optimized[1]) equality operator, that > > *will* return true for @foo = ( [ 1, 2 ], 3 ); @bar = ( [ 1, 2 ], 3 ); > > op(@foo, @bar)? > > Is i

Re: [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

Will Coleda wrote: I would prefer .include to maintain its current meaning. Not everything you .include is a complete PIR program. I think the most common case at the moment is stitching together .pir files generated by PGE/TGE. Which is useful. Allison

Re: [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

Patrick R. Michaud wrote: IIUC, the loadlib opcode (and the new .loadlib directive) are used strictly for dynamic libraries... .include is currently compile-time only, and only works with .pir/.pasm ... Yes, the suggestion is an extreme reuse of existing syntax. Something that's good to avoi

Re: Creating a New Object (was Re: [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC)

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 12:15:07PM -0700, Chip Salzenberg wrote: > >- If another HLL wants to create a Perl6Str, how does it do it? > >- If another HLL wants to create a subclass of Perl6Str...? I just realized that I misinterpreted these questions. I thought that the first question was a

Re: Easy Str === Str question: what is a reference type

On 7/12/06, Aaron Sherman wrote: There's a problem here, from my point of view. I'll take it one assumption at a time: * $whatever.as.id ~~ $whateverelse.as.id is true if and only if $whatever := $whateverelse at some point in the past, either explicitly, or through some so

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!)

On Wed, 2006-07-12 at 15:32 -0500, Jonathan Scott Duff wrote: > On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 04:16:13PM -0400, Aaron Sherman wrote: > > On Wed, 2006-07-12 at 19:25 +0300, Yuval Kogman wrote: > > > 4. will we have a deep (possibly optimized[1]) equality operator, that > > > *will* return true for @foo =

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!)

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 16:16:13 -0400, Aaron Sherman wrote: > Isn't that ~~? > > Per S03: > > Array Array arrays are comparablematch if $_ »~~« $x > > ~~ is really the all-purpose, bake-your-bread, clean-your-floors, > wax-your-cat operator that you're looking for. Not at al

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!)

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 17:58:03 -0400, Aaron Sherman wrote: > Then ~~ is wrong in that respect, and I think we should be talking about > that, not about making === into "~~, but without invoking code when it > shouldn't." But it should! It's the smart match! If the rhs matches the code ref (the

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!)

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 16:16:13 -0400, Aaron Sherman wrote: > The other way to think about === would be that it tells you if its LHS > *could* be constant-folded onto its RHS (if it were constant for long > enough) What is the benefit here? > Because of the word "deep". Deep implies arbitrary w

Re: [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

Leopold Toetsch wrote: This means, we'd have: .include "file.pasm/.pir" ... load macros or constants (no code) > load_bytecode "file.pbc" ... load a "module" $P0 = loadlib "file" ... load a shared lib (pmc or ops) .loadlib "file"... same during compilation Th

Re: [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

On Wednesday 12 July 2006 16:11, Allison Randal wrote: > load_bytecode is good for runtime loading of PASM/PIR/PBC. Except for the misleading name. I wonder if there could be a variant that evaluates the code with the appropriate compiler, too: load_{something} 'file', 'compiler_name'

Re: [svn:parrot] r13270 - trunk/languages/perl6

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Modified: trunk/languages/perl6/perl6.pir == --- trunk/languages/perl6/perl6.pir (original) +++ trunk/languages/perl6/perl6.pir Wed Jul 12 17:05:26 2006 @@ -24,9 +24,7 @@ .namespace [ '

Re: [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

chromatic wrote: On Wednesday 12 July 2006 16:11, Allison Randal wrote: load_bytecode is good for runtime loading of PASM/PIR/PBC. Except for the misleading name. Oh, you mean the fact that much of the time it's not loading bytecode at all? It has crossed my mind, but the irritation hasn't

[svn:perl6-synopsis] r10156 - doc/trunk/design/syn

Author: larry Date: Wed Jul 12 18:05:24 2006 New Revision: 10156 Modified: doc/trunk/design/syn/S02.pod doc/trunk/design/syn/S03.pod Log: Clarifications from Smylers++ and ajs++. Modified: doc/trunk/design/syn/S02.pod ===

"_group" in library name (was Re: r13272 - in trunk: compilers/imcc docs/imcc src)

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 05:29:08PM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > * Apply heuristics that tells > .loadlib 'perl6_group' # HLL dynamic PMCs > and > .loadlib 'dynlexpad'# non-HLL dynamic PMCs > apart, by locating the '_group" substring inside the library name. Urque, that's rea

[perl #39808] [PATCH] Allows execution of a single configure step such as rebuilding language makefiles

# New Ticket Created by Kevin Tew # Please include the string: [perl #39808] # in the subject line of all future correspondence about this issue. # http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=39808 > example: perl Configure --step=gen::languages Configure.pl | 12 +++

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!)

Yuval Kogman wrote: On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 17:58:03 -0400, Aaron Sherman wrote: Then ~~ is wrong in that respect, and I think we should be talking about that, not about making === into "~~, but without invoking code when it shouldn't." But it should! It's the smart match! If the rhs

Re: Another quick one: .as

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 12:51:57PM -0400, Aaron Sherman wrote: : I would assume that all classes automatically define: : : multi submethod *infix: ($self: $?CLASS) { $self } Hmm, "as" is really only intended for explicit type mutation (which can work either by role mixin or by new object constru

[perl #39809] PGE crash on parrot;PGE::Exp::Quant;reduce

# New Ticket Created by Chris Dolan # Please include the string: [perl #39809] # in the subject line of all future correspondence about this issue. # http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=39809 > --- osname= darwin osvers= 8.0 arch= darwin-thread-multi-2level cc= cc --- Flags:

Re: [perl #39809] PGE crash on parrot;PGE::Exp::Quant;reduce

On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 08:04:01PM -0700, Chris Dolan wrote: > As simple token containing ":i" causes PGE to crash with an attempted > method call on Undef. > > Steps to reproduce: >1) Create a grammar file called "foo.pg" that has one line: > token foo { :i a } As I read S05, a modifie

Re: [perl #39809] PGE crash on parrot;PGE::Exp::Quant;reduce

On Jul 12, 2006, at 10:53 PM, Patrick R. Michaud wrote: On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 08:04:01PM -0700, Chris Dolan wrote: As simple token containing ":i" causes PGE to crash with an attempted method call on Undef. Steps to reproduce: 1) Create a grammar file called "foo.pg" that has one line:

Re: [perl #39715] [TODO] #39715 IMCC errors should throw Parrot exceptions

On Wednesday 12 July 2006 22:02, Vishal Soni via RT wrote: > This patch also introduces a Parrot API for the calling programs to > compile the code. Currently pugs uses immc_compile() call into IMCC. > Ideally Pugs should not be communicating with IMCC but with Parrot. This > new API will try to h

Re: [perl #39715] [TODO] #39715 IMCC errors should throw Parrot exceptions

> > > > PARROT_API void *Parrot_compile_file(Parrot_Interp interpreter,char > > *fullname, String **error); > > I like this interface, except for the return value from Parrot_compile_file. > Are there other options, such as returning a Sub PMC? Chip and I have had a chat about other possible A

[perl #39810] [PATCH] regression tests for P6Regex syntax errors

# New Ticket Created by Chris Dolan # Please include the string: [perl #39810] # in the subject line of all future correspondence about this issue. # http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=39810 > This patch adds a new syntax_errors.t file with some known broken regexps. This is int

Re: CPANDB - was: Module::Dependency 1.84

Tels wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Moin, On Wednesday 12 July 2006 03:13, David Golden wrote: Tels wrote: My idea was to build _only_ the database, and do it right, simple and easy to use and then get everyone else to just use the DB instead of fiddling with their own.