On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 12:14:14PM -0600, David Green wrote:
> On 2009-May-30, at 12:06 pm, David Green wrote:
> >...what "Perl6" is today, let alone what it will be tomorrow.
>
> Actually, we do kind of know what Perl will look like a decade from
> now, because P6 is deliberately extensible eno
On 2009-May-30, at 12:06 pm, David Green wrote:
...what "Perl6" is today, let alone what it will be tomorrow.
Actually, we do kind of know what Perl will look like a decade from
now, because P6 is deliberately extensible enough that we may never
need a Perl 7. But that simply means that ho
On 2009-May-30, at 6:56 am, Andrew Whitworth wrote:
I'm not saying we *can't* create a general repository for all sorts of
nonsense, I'm saying that we *shouldn't*.
"Holiday photos" is just a whimsical example. The problem is that
it's hard enough keeping up with what "Perl6" is today, let a
Em Sex, 2009-05-29 às 23:37 +0200, Daniel Carrera escreveu:
> Your idea of using CPAN to share holiday pictures is one of the things
> that really turned me off from your CPAN6 proposal.
If you replace "holiday pictures" by 'YAPC pictures', 'Talk slides',
'Code Snippets', 'Perl related scientific
meta-data you can collect.
If you want to create an infrastructure that is vastly extensible and
too clever by half, that's you're prerogative. I don't care what
software infrastructure we use for a new CPAN, nor what methodology is
used to design it. What I do care about is that the final
* Andrew Whitworth (wknight8...@gmail.com) [090530 00:24]:
> I agree. Doing one thing well is so much better for everybody then
> doing a million things poorly. An assorted "blob of data" repository
> is far less valuable to the Perl5, Perl6, and Parrot communities then
> a dedicated library reposi
On Fri, 29 May 2009, Daniel Carrera wrote:
Mark Overmeer wrote:
And the next consideration: when we have a piece of software which
administers Perl5 or Perl6 or Nokia.bin or Elf. Why stop there?
What is the overlap? It is basically all just some blob of data with
some associated meta-data to
On Fri, 29 May 2009, Mark Overmeer wrote:
* Timothy S. Nelson (wayl...@wayland.id.au) [090529 11:26]:
I'd like to suggest to Mark and Daniel that, seeing as I won't be
making it to any Perl event outside Australia, and maybe not even some
inside, and Mark can't keep up with IRC (my symp
Wayland wrote:
Allow me to point something out. He wants to write a freely
available software package that can share data, and is useful for the
Perl6 environment. He's not suggesting that we have holiday photos on
CPAN-the-network,
I'm not sure about that. We were talking about what thi
On Fri, 29 May 2009, Austin Hastings wrote:
How about "Parrot"?
Because the SMOP Perl 6 implementation doesn't target Parrot, and
won't, and we want to include them too. Likewise other P6 implementations.
HTH,
-
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 5:37 PM, Daniel Carrera
wrote:
> Mark Overmeer wrote:
>>
>> And the next consideration: when we have a piece of software which
>> administers Perl5 or Perl6 or Nokia.bin or Elf. Why stop there?
>> What is the overlap? It is basically all just some blob of data with
>> som
Mark Overmeer wrote:
And the next consideration: when we have a piece of software which
administers Perl5 or Perl6 or Nokia.bin or Elf. Why stop there?
What is the overlap? It is basically all just some blob of data with
some associated meta-data to search and retreive the blobs. It is only
th
* Daniel Carrera (daniel.carr...@theingots.org) [090529 19:55]:
> Btw, if we do go ahead with this "meta CPAN" idea, it'll be important to
> divide the network into self-contained groups. Earlier I used the word
> "target". Alternatively we could say "platform". Example platforms could
> incl
John Macdonald wrote:
Comprehensive Programming Archive Network.
Another problem with "Programming" is that it assumes that other
languages will actually use the system. We don't know that currently
and it is a bit presumptions to assume that they will. It would look
awkward if only Perl used
John Macdonald wrote:
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 07:26:11PM +0200, Daniel Carrera wrote:
Btw, if the majority wants to start uploading Ruby, Python and Lua
modules to CPAN, we can rename CPAN so that the P stands for something
else that doesn't mean anything. "Comprehensive Peacock Archive
Net
Sorry, didn't do a reply-all on this.
--- Begin Message ---
How about "Parrot"?
I think the original point, along with one of the original claims for
Parrot, was that Parrot would not just be the "Perl internals engine"
but would be general enough to run other languages. (Specifically, there
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 07:26:11PM +0200, Daniel Carrera wrote:
> Btw, if the majority wants to start uploading Ruby, Python and Lua
> modules to CPAN, we can rename CPAN so that the P stands for something
> else that doesn't mean anything. "Comprehensive Peacock Archive
> Network"? "Comprehe
Daniel Carrera wrote:
Btw, if the majority wants to start uploading Ruby, Python and Lua
modules to CPAN, we can rename CPAN so that the P stands for something
else that doesn't mean anything. "Comprehensive Peacock Archive
Network"? "Comprehensive Platypus Archive Network"?
my (@C,@P,@A,@N)
Larry Wall wrote:
I think this is an important point, philosophically. The internet,
and later the web, both succeeded primarily because they unified
identity *without* resorting to centralization (except to bootstrap
the top-level nameservers, of course). But identity must not be
confused with
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 04:32:00PM +0200, Mark Overmeer wrote:
: * Daniel Carrera (daniel.carr...@theingots.org) [090529 14:24]:
: > I think that it would be a good idea to put Perl 5 and Perl 6 modules in
: > the same CPAN.
:
: I have a very cowardous reply on this. My CPAN6 design supports bo
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 05:32:16PM +0200, Mark Overmeer wrote:
: >> Perl6 and Perl5 have some things in common, just like PHP and Perl5.
: >
: > Perl 6 is the next version of Perl 5 and Perl 6 comes with a Perl 5
: > compatibility mode and Perl 6 is intended to be able to use Perl 5
: > modules
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Daniel Carrera <
daniel.carr...@theingots.org> wrote:
> Mark Overmeer wrote:
>
>> The problem is more serious. Perl6 installation needs to have multiple
>> versions of the same module installed in parallel (and even run within
>> the same program!).
>>
>
> Why?
>
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 04:23:56PM +0200, Mark Overmeer wrote:
> What's in a name.
> Is it also
> CPAN is the Comprehensive Parrot Archive Network
> CPAN is the Comprehensive Pieton Archive Network
> CPAN is the Comprehensive Pony Archive Network
> CPAN is the Comprehensive PHPArchive
* Daniel Carrera (daniel.carr...@theingots.org) [090529 14:39]:
> Much, actually. As the ZCAN document explains, the set of mirrors are
> donated to Perl by various donors who agreed to hold *Perl* modules.
> These computers do not belong to us. If the donors agreed to hold Perl
> modules, it
Mark Overmeer wrote:
CPAN is the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network.
Not the Comprehensive Perl 5 Archive Network.
What's in a name.
Much, actually. As the ZCAN document explains, the set of mirrors are
donated to Perl by various donors who agreed to hold *Perl* modules.
These computers do
* Daniel Carrera (daniel.carr...@theingots.org) [090529 14:24]:
> I think that it would be a good idea to put Perl 5 and Perl 6 modules in
> the same CPAN.
I have a very cowardous reply on this. My CPAN6 design supports both
sub-setting and super-setting archives. So, it can produce three
acce
Nicholas Clark wrote:
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 02:43:13PM +0200, Mark Overmeer wrote:
* Daniel Carrera (daniel.carr...@theingots.org) [090529 11:42]:
"CPAN shall not piggyback another language" -- from ZCAN.
Judging from the ZCAN page, I don't expect that uploading Ruby modules
to CPAN will
* Nicholas Clark (n...@ccl4.org) [090529 14:07]:
> On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 02:43:13PM +0200, Mark Overmeer wrote:
> > > "CPAN shall not piggyback another language" -- from ZCAN.
> > > Judging from the ZCAN page, I don't expect that uploading Ruby modules
> > > to CPAN will go well, even if that m
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 02:43:13PM +0200, Mark Overmeer wrote:
> * Daniel Carrera (daniel.carr...@theingots.org) [090529 11:42]:
> > "CPAN shall not piggyback another language" -- from ZCAN.
> > Judging from the ZCAN page, I don't expect that uploading Ruby modules
> > to CPAN will go well, even
* Daniel Carrera (daniel.carr...@theingots.org) [090529 11:42]:
> Timothy S. Nelson wrote:
>> While I've no objection to building the end-user software to
>> support multiple repositories, I know that there are certain segments
>> of the community who are very very keen to keep everything in
* Timothy S. Nelson (wayl...@wayland.id.au) [090529 11:26]:
> I'd like to suggest to Mark and Daniel that, seeing as I won't be
> making it to any Perl event outside Australia, and maybe not even some
> inside, and Mark can't keep up with IRC (my sympathies there), that the
> best place f
On Fri, 29 May 2009, Daniel Carrera wrote:
Timothy S. Nelson wrote:
While I've no objection to building the end-user software to support
multiple repositories, I know that there are certain segments of the
community who are very very keen to keep everything in the one repository.
After r
Timothy S. Nelson wrote:
While I've no objection to building the end-user software to support
multiple repositories, I know that there are certain segments of the
community who are very very keen to keep everything in the one
repository.
After reading the Zen of Comprehensive Archive Netw
On Fri, 29 May 2009, Mark Overmeer wrote:
* Daniel Carrera (daniel.carr...@theingots.org) [090528 16:07]:
Mark Overmeer wrote:
In March 2006, Sam Vilain and I started to think about a new CPAN
what we named CPAN6. There is a lot of information about the project on
http://cpan6.org
I know
* Daniel Carrera (daniel.carr...@theingots.org) [090529 09:38]:
>> He (from NZ) stayed at my place (in NL) for a few days before YAPC::EU
>> 2007 (UK) where we gave a presentation about the subject. The results
>> are in the initial paper page 22-24
>
> The discussion did not happen on this mailin
Mark Overmeer wrote:
* Daniel Carrera (daniel.carr...@theingots.org) [090529 08:17]:
Workshops, Hackathons and YAPCs are more suitable.
But those venues are not available on a day-to-day basis.
At least, you get the time to discuss it in depth. Some even basic meta-
data issues are just too c
* Daniel Carrera (daniel.carr...@theingots.org) [090529 08:17]:
>> Workshops, Hackathons and YAPCs are more suitable.
> But those venues are not available on a day-to-day basis.
At least, you get the time to discuss it in depth. Some even basic meta-
data issues are just too complex for the short
e current set-up",
so IRC doesn't seem to me a good spot to discuss it.
Nonetheless, IRC seems to be the place where discussion does happen. IRC
has pros and cons over email. If you want to convince people to make the
new CPAN the way you want, you have to join the conversation wher
* Daniel Carrera (daniel.carr...@theingots.org) [090528 16:07]:
> Mark Overmeer wrote:
>> In March 2006, Sam Vilain and I started to think about a new CPAN
>> what we named CPAN6. There is a lot of information about the project on
>> http://cpan6.org
>
> I know about CP
* Daniel Carrera (daniel.carr...@theingots.org) [090528 21:46]:
> use Whiteness:from;
> So we have to give some thought to how the modules are going to be
> stored in the system.
Actually, I have made some progress to implement this for Perl5. The
problem is that you need parallel trees of the s
wrote that I hadn't yet read S11. The new CPAN needs
to handle all the metadata in S11.
use Whiteness:from;
So we have to give some thought to how the modules are going to be
stored in the system.
Daniel.
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Daniel Carrera wrote:
Mark Overmeer wrote:
The problem is more serious. Perl6 installation needs to have multiple
versions of the same module installed in parallel (and even run within
the same program!).
Why?
Because we need things to work effectively in the general case where what was
or
Jonathan Scott Duff wrote:
See http://perlcabal.org/syn/S11.html#Versioning
Yeah, I reached that part earlier today (but after I sent my email). Thanks.
Daniel.
Mark Overmeer wrote:
In March 2006, Sam Vilain and I started to think about a new CPAN
what we named CPAN6. There is a lot of information about the project on
http://cpan6.org
I know about CPAN6, thanks. It's come up a couple of times on IRC.
Perhaps you could hang out on the IRC chann
Em Qui, 2009-05-28 às 16:18 +0200, Daniel Carrera escreveu:
> Hello all,
> There was some talk on IRC about a new version of CPAN to match the new
> version of Perl.
I just wanted to point out some previous conclusion on this issue.
What currently we generically name "CPAN" is actually composed
* Daniel Carrera (daniel.carr...@theingots.org) [090528 14:18]:
> There was some talk on IRC about a new version of CPAN to match the new
> version of Perl.
In March 2006, Sam Vilain and I started to think about a new CPAN
what we named CPAN6. There is a lot of information about the proj
== 1) { system("cpan1 $module"); }
else { system("cpan2 $module"); }
So initially all modules go to the "cpan1" program.
C) With this we are free to make a new CPAN format and a "cpan2" install
script. We can upload the new modules to CPAN and the "cpan
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