>>>>> "NT" == Nathan Torkington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
NT> Chaim Frenkel writes:
>> Those are all major typo inducing changes.
>>
>> You'll need alternative micro-code loads for your fingers, when
>> switching between clien
^From\s+\S+\s+\S+\s+(\S+\s+\S+)/) {
NT> @r = reverse split ' ', $who;
NT> @r[0] = sprintf("%02d", @r[0]);
NT> %count{"@r"}++;
NT> }
NT> }
NT> foreach (sort %count) {
NT> printf("%s: %3
So having line and offset information available in the output could be
made available.
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but no
BMK> subscriber could post.
Just be careful about the perl6-all redirection. Don't allow registration
on both redirection lists.
Hmm, How would this work? Headers would be re-written? How would 'critical'
comments get to the -internals-design list?
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m of things we have specific routines
DS> for.
(I'm no OO programmer) I can't wrap my mind around how one can extend a
OO hierarchy so that a low level (i.e. closer to the base class) can know
about a future type. (I once tried to work through the Smalltalk hierarchy
necessary? Why not a non-vtbl function that knows how
to add numeric types?
I would have wanted to limit the vtbl to self manipulation functions.
Set, get, convert, etc. Cross object operations would/should be
outside the realm of the object. (It seems like trying to lift yourself
by the bootstraps.)
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JH> /* any others? */
JH> };
JH> should be used around SVs to ascertain that everything fits everywhere.
I was under the impression that p6 was going to do away with p5's
incestuous knowledge of hardware bits. And go with a more OO style of
dispatch.
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cation' that needs to be aware of
platform dependencies.
Bootstraping could be accomplished with a thin stub layer over FILE *,
with progressive iterations of PerlIO replacing the stub.
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$foo = s;foo;bar;g;
$foo = s#foo#bar#g; # change the world
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S> Dan Sugalski even samurai
DS> [EMAIL PROTECTED] have teddy bears and even
DS> teddy bears get drunk
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go.
ST> Perhaps we really need a new kind of regex that works by-design against
ST> streams of bytes?
ST> -sam
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;m more inclined to think of the structured data type as a layer
above the raw bits. I see the association of attributes with the underlying
data as an extra 'service'.
If for no other reason, there are many ways of having the attributes
distribute across, deletions, additions, and
g. (And that this will be able to parse code
at acceptable speed.)
Anyway, what does this have to do with the API?
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tion.
Getting an efficient representation of a meaningful structure should
be done a new data type.
(I'm thinking of representing COBOL records/data, or even XML documents)
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always safe to resubscribe. You'll get an error message if you're on
DS> already.
I just stick with -all, and let the filter take care of the rest.
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e language, etc. Planning a map from "here" to
DG> "there" doesn't sound quite feasible when we don't know where "there" is.
DG> What am I missing?
DG> pete
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threaded code is so much slower; this can also be seen as
>> an indictment of threaded code).
JvV> Now I am really confused. This directly contradicts the Threaded Perl RFC.
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has to
be done or not. If there are some magic combinations of operations that
are done very regularly, a new word that does that combo could be provided.
If the representation doesn't allow for certain optimizations, the TIL is
not the optree, but rather the final executable form. The compiler co
ops. Were Perl5 used
the C inner loop, the TIL could have a tighter asm loop, or even direct
machine calls.
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don't see any practical restrictions at all.)
We may not even need to copy the body. If the header of the function
is target location, the header could any one of
nop,
nest another inner loop
lookup current symbol
fixup caller
or jump to
As the pieces were pulled off the disk, the next io
instruction ended up in the right place. Myth?)
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ps could use relative addressing as not needing
relocation. But I'm not sure that all architectures support long enough
relative jumps/calls.
Doing the actual relocation should be quite fast. I believe that all
current executables have to be relocated upon loading.
>>>>> "AT" == Adam Turoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
AT> On Tue, Oct 24, 2000 at 10:55:29AM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
>> I don't see it.
>>
>> I would find it extremely akward to allow
>>
>> thread 1:*foo = \&o
.e. using pointers (or direct machine calls) to other
body of code made up of pointers or a real piece of code.
You seem to be thinking of threaded execution.
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ually
done, all threading is directly to the body of &foo. When the *foo
assignment is done,
copy the &foo body to a new location.
replace the old &foo body with an indirection
(I believe this is atomic.)
And optionally, the indirection could be to a fixup
rhaps if there were some dataflow
analysis some region of code) to use indirection?
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>>>>> "DS" == Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
DS> At 01:50 PM 10/10/00 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
>> There is an intermediate method, have our own execution and data stack.
>> Basically build a TIL interpreter. This might be intermediat
ion, like:
DS>perl_call(perl_cv_ptr, 1, 2, 3);
DS> the bad bit about that is it means that calls to perl functions are
DS> different than calls to C functions, and I'm trying not to do that--I
DS> really do want to be able to get real f
this is the sentence );
$bar[0] eq "";
$bar[1] eq "this";
Currently $bar[0] eq "this";
If you think about it isn't removing leading fields, it's looking for the
first non-whitespace token on the li
y, this might be something useful at the user level. Many times
I do this
@record{@keys} = new_values();
Using a set of 'intern'ed strings might make it more efficient. And unless
we are able to note that @keys is always the same,the hashes would have to
keep getting recomputed. W
o the cached version.
eg.
/usr/local/perl/.../Posix.pm.1050:22 # George did this one
And this would be disabled under -T
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it be different for different applications
running at the same time?
How does an application query what the current timezone or zone offset is?
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nd expensive way of doing something 'simple'.
And I can't imagine how this would work. Any statement could be interupted
with an exception, but there is no mechanism to restart.
This is just plain wrong.
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the tarball) modules that are not
judged as requiring a use will be in there.
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1] is
DC> parameter [1] is the 2nd parameter. They'll know because at the very start
DC> of L I will write:
DC> ^1 means $_[1], NOT $_[0]
[snip. Last message repeated too many times.]
If you have to do that, that is a good argument to follow the '
process.
Please, make the Config.pm be internal. So it can not be seperated from
the executable.
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and the rest. The embeded pod documentation is not
needed on a production only server. And if the .pm can be boiled
down to bytecode then there is no need for the .pm
Will you require that the .pm be installed on a production box just
so that embedded pod will be available?
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7;ve done it wrong. It stays wrong until the machine is
replaced.
*sigh*,
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an array.
All I ask is the Damian add our comments to the RFC.
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ng is
an enabler.
I've seen code that actually looks at the value of $@
eval { ... }
$@ !~ //;
Why not make it simpler
eval { }
$@ !~ any( ); # Damian's Superpositions.
string, locks away any possiblities
of adjusting the text of the message or even making the error string
localizable.
Consider allowing perl to emit error messages in French, Latin, or
Klingon without breaking the code.
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nment I have a clean nice place
to work from either making a tarball or just using SysV packaging.
Why make life hard, an option can be a lot easier than having to
manually rm stuff. (I.e. rm everything except perldiag.pod.)
And what about when the installation changes? Or ....
Perl is a
rong".
Sorry, I'm missing it.
$_ = "etc\n"; /etc$/; # true
$_ = "etc"; /etc$/; # true
In what way is this _wrong_?
Is it under /m? But then wouldn't longest match cover the situation?
And doesn't it o
is.
Issuing a unique error id for non-core modules will be a nightmare.
And I don't think we want to start up a IANA.
The $@->facility, $@->id pair could be considered unique for non-core
errors.
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ation on, have _NO_ direct human users. They
are purely application servers. I don't want a minimum stripped down
perl installation that will get my job done.
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a newbie, not one of the oldtimers whose been part of perl6 since
Damian's RFC came out. Would they think that the second and third arguments
were added or the first and second?
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of
production machines. I don't need documentation on the production
boxes.
Or what about a application that doesn't want to force the end-user to
install perl?
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t; so that the default is to call the uri stuff.
Is it just me, but I keep wondering how Uri Guttman gets into this.
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7;t want to do the monitoring, then some hook that is called
just after the header or before the first line, and just after the
last or before the footer.
I must of missed it but what is the mechanism to force a page break?
And is there a way of keeping a format emission either together or
to al
e spirit of how pack/unpack is used.
PRL> The semantic is enhanced as much as possible under this constaint.
PRL> Additional changes to pack/unpack are listed in other proposals.
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erence between the syscall idea
of time and some 'universal' perl epoch.
Then all the programs would need to be able to translate from any
OS to any other OS would be the offsets between any system and
the perl epoch.
Perl would not have to maintain this table it would not have to go
out in
>>>>> "NT" == Nathan Torkington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
NT> Chaim Frenkel writes:
>> I would like to have an undef returned.
NT> Ah, I see. You want subroutines to return undef if they're given it
NT> for any of their arguments. That&
initive reason why hashes do not interpolate. And that's
PRL> fine by me.
What about formating the output as a value that can be used by eval?
%hash = (a => 1, b => 'the world');
print "%{hash}\n";
('a' => 1, 'b'
we can always point at where the line starts, if it still
>> exists.
TC> Make it:
TC> Division by zero error on statement beginning at line xx
TC> Consider multiline constants -- where do you say the warning occurred?
TC> print < blah
TC> bl
s a good
GL> expenditure of the fast CPUs of today, as a tradeoff towards
GL> reliable processing. And maybe in Perl6 exception handling could
GL> be less expensive than it is (by comparison to error codes) in
GL> other languages? That's a quest
empty list. Adding all these
exceptions for non-exceptional and quite common scenerios is bothersome.
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r generator, and return a reference to the
generator allowing reseting or extraction of the next number via rand
=item rand EXPR, RANDGEN_REF
=item rand EXPR
=item rand
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n core.
I thought he was asking for evaluating until nothing is left to interpolate.
Something akin to:
$x = eval "$x" while $x =~ /[$@]/;
But more intelligent.
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ariables? Point the format at which variable(s) to watch
range => qw(name other)
footer => "$From{name} - $To{name}";
Would it be worthwhile to have a quick and dirty way of having the
formatter determine the max width and then allow the head
27;@') would then
be able to see the raw arguments.
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>>>>> "JP" == John Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
JP> Chaim Frenkel wrote:
>>
>> Removing -1 as a valid result, could be a breakage (if someone is
>> doing something weird with a negative result)
JP> What, like using it as an index i
pot they occur, even down to reporting the
DS> appropriate failure line in a multiline statement. We don't worry about
DS> bloat or slowdown, because the assumption is that -H is only used during
DS> debugging or when speed doesn't matter,
gt; system-dependent, then we have nothing against which to offset it.
Just a function/variable that would contain the offset from machine/os
system epoch to unix (or universal) epoch.
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should have been honored. Or ...
Hmm, that might not be a bad idea at all. There was some talk about
reworking the command line.
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, then just rerun the job
and add a -T right at the front.
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adjustment,
CN> were you? Maybe you could state exactly what you propose, because I don't
CN> know what it is.
Disregard this. I was indicating that _IF_ p6 would honor a TZ variable
the lack of a TZ variable could leave the results unchanged for old
scripts. Just a way of maintaining
yada.
No command line switches there. Only the #!.
If the subclued webmaster has perl in his cgi-bin directory, -T is
his least worry.
Hmm, or are you thinking of a shell script that's calling perl?
Then he has lots of holes to worry about.
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Chaim Frenkel
guments, perl has to process them to
know how to interpret the script.
The only other mechanism that might be worthwhile would be for perl
to notice the -T and then give up and re-exec itself with an added
-T at the front of the line.
This would be workable as long as none of the -M&#x
breach can be caused by not having
a -T?
The perl code is available to be read. So what can a perl program do
that the black hat couldn't by tweaking the code? The code is running
under the black hat's priviledges and uid.
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Chaim Frenkel
voked
PRL> on the commandline, and runs a script that contains the
PRL> -T option on the #! line, Perl should just turn on
PRL> taint mode and not complain about it.
PRL> =head1 MIGRATION ISSUES
PRL> None.
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Chaim Frenkel
ut keeping one of the original line numbers
would at least point at the correct expression.
The only movements that I can see are merges and reorgs. And we
can generate a reasonable association to get the users eyeball
to where it belongs.
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Chaim Frenkel
what is the difference between
the timestamp returned from the syscalls, and the unix (or whatever)
epoch.
If you want to adjust for timezones just calculate the constant. Which
since you are giving it in HHMM format you might as well just calculate
directly.
So what am I missi
hat doesn't use perl's epoch and we need to write
a value to a file?
I think I've just gotten very confused.
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# Nothing but declarations.
Package Pet;
sub Feed();
sub Play();
sub Wash();
sub Pet();
Though how to tell perl to enforce it.
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ght be useful is have strftime() (or something
similar) built-in without having to use POSIX; and the default should
be MMDDHHMMSS.fff, (the ISO format)
I personally prefer to pass around the string representation, more
that perl and unix systems need to handle datetime. (And I find it
ea
nce between line numbers/files and op code
File cross-reference (might be just the %INC)
file#, filename
from, to, file#, line#
...
If the optimizer moves some opcodes around, it would slice and dice
the relevent offset records to keep tr
(40 == substr($bar, $offset))) {
}
I use this style of safe failure when working in SQL.
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$foo = "flabergasted";
substr($foo, index($foo, 'abc'), 20); # Returns undef
If this is too much breakage what about only if it is the argument?
$foo = "flabergasted";
$x = index($foo, 'abc');
substr($foo, $x, 20); # s
the values will
be done?
Is this "@hash{@keys};" valid?
Would it be possible to make push(%hash, @keys) work? Doesn't look likely
is @keys the keys, the values, or both?
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t I need would be
a win for me.
Time for another missive in language design of why pop and push,
shift and unshift are in, but union and intersection are not.
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f using the wrong data structure all
TC> along -- that is, an array.
But a Hash isn't the correct data structure either. It just has some,
of the correct properties.
Perhaps we should add a Set to the toolkit. Basically a hash with
only the keys, no other baggage.
But you still would argue ag
phase.
Up until that point, it is wasted energy. At this point, without code
there is nothing locked down, no cost in changing. (Yes, even though
they are bits, changing software, changing architecture has major
costs.)
Lets work on firming up the specs and ironing out differences.
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Chaim Frenkel
.) can be chucked all I would need is
the key management part. Which could probably be boiled down to
converting the hash key into a bit.
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pplication.
Tiny minority? I'm no mathematician, but I've used set operations to
avoid redoing known work. And I've used hashes simply because I have
no other 'lazy' choice. But the code becomes harder to read.
>From a conceptual level, when looking at the code (not t
h have to go through the same amount of work ("work is conserved")
but one is more efficient in terms of the user's brainpower.
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>>>>> "AS" == Ariel Scolnicov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
AS> Chaim Frenkel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> yield EXPR - stop what I am doing now and give something else a
>> a chance to do its things. And while you are doing
>> that pl
brace could be one of many things.
Does the prototype help guide the decision that it is a block and not
an anon-hash?
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>>>>> "BL" == Bart Lateur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
BL> On 10 Sep 2000 00:33:43 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
>> I view it as a mis-feature.
BL> I'm sorry to disagree. But flattening of argument lists is one of those
BL> things that make Perl,
a
regex operation, one or the other wouldn't have to be populated.)
Thoughts?
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in general when doing line at a time filter
processing.
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ith
my Set (@a, @b, @c);# Is the type distributive?
@c = @a - @b;
@c = @a + @b;
@c = @a * @b; # cross product ?
I'm not understaning your position. I could have used such an operation
rather than rolling my own. And a module w
e overloaded
to work with lazy lists, continuations, and short-circuiting.
yield EXPR - stop what I am doing now and give something else a
a chance to do its things. And while you are doing
that please take this EXPR from me.
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>>>>> "DC" == Damian Conway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
DC> I *still* think it should be "unmerge"! ;-)
Hrmpf. It should be reshape.
(Which would be its own inverse and saves a keyword.)
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Chaim Frenkel
users to be accounted for.
And the fact that you are allowing some RFCs to go without a prototype
puts this into the _we need an RFC Czar_ tyranny mold.
Let the ideas flow for a while, and then let's go back over them
for fine-tuning or rejection.
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Chaim Frenkel
accept the element it
DC> was filtering:
Why not spell it 'yield'?
It seems to have all the right connotations.
A sort of soft return. Gives of itself. Very polite.
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ested that a while ago, but Randal shot it down.
Something about the block not being a loop, I think.
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27; that can have itself
configure.
Yes, one could do it in the shell/program, but a simple 'standard'
method might be worthwhile.
use perlrc qw(:system :user);
Though the range of options and settings are probably so vast that
a single module capable of handling all scenerios would be so
d work (waving hands violently) like this,
vtbl Integer
vtblFloat
vtblString
vtblDualNaturedVariable
etc.
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thread with bar
# create new thread with bar
while () {
push(@a, $workOrder);
}
}
Or for that matter, perhaps @a is file scoped?
:shared and my/our are orthogonal. One is cross-thread the other is
scoping.
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in reserve. Think of Larry as Daddy and all the kids
running over when he comes home, He did, No he did, No he, ...)
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