Is this the current one? If so, it tests less well than two others:
Tamron 28-75 f2.8
Tokina AT-X AF Pro 28-80 f2.8
I have the Tokina 28-80, and can attest that it is very sharp but heavy,
and can flare if shot into the sun. The Tamron is also very sharp,
lighter, and less expensive.
Joe
Re: http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/bkd_2167.htm
Bruce, this is simply gorgeous.
Joe
Making noise, stuffing themselves, talking with food in their mouths.
Disgusting.
http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/cat/3527/display/3762257
http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/cat/3527/display/3762258
http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/cat/3527/display/3762260
http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc
Oh...and refusing to sit still for their pictures.
--
Making noise, stuffing themselves, talking with food in their mouths.
Disgusting.
http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/cat/3527/display/3762257
http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/cat/3527/display/3762258
http://www.fotocommunity.com/
Nice looking 35mm 1.4 for Konica-Minolta. It's a 'D' lens but can still
be used on film cameras.
--
Hmmm. Is it really a Konolta design, or rebadged from Sigma?
Joe
Nice, Bruce, as always. Clever title, too.
Joe
Love the Packard, Paul.
I always admire and envy your insect shots. But seeing the haze in this
photo reminds me why I am glad to live in New Mexico, even though we
have fewer opportunities for insect photography. I used to live near
Chicago, and remember well what August is like.
Joe
Seems to perform nicely on the D, Bill.
Joe
*ist DS2, AF540FGZ flash, shipping date for DA 12-24 F4:
http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/news/articles/story_4134.html
Joe
I note that, at the wide end, the new flash will zoom to cover the angle
of view of a 24 mm. lens (in 35 mm. format). One major drawback of the
Sigma, for me, was that it only zoomed to cover 28 mm. The new one from
Pentax will match nicely with the DA 16-45.
Joe
I am not impressed with the large lcd on the back. My nose already gets
skin oil all over the smaller one on my *ist D.
More seriously, I would prefer that Pentax use the real estate for some
more and/or larger function buttons.
Joe
Igor queried:
FA 135/2.8
F 135/2.8
Any comments on comparative optical (and otherwise) quality of them?
-
I decided against the FA 135 for digital because I saw some severe
purple fringing in the center of images at f2.8 and f4.0. The FA and F
are supposed to be the same, but in Photodo'
My unofficial photo slogan is "Flash is for sissies".
--
Or, "Real men don't flash."
Joe
Let's say you shoot on a Pentax DSLR, with the intention at the start of
converting the image to grayscale. You shoot with a red or yellow or
green filter, with the final B&W image in mind. One shoots in Raw. After
converting to TIFF, then converting to grayscale, will the effect of,
say, a red
I am pretty happy with Noise Ninja. It is certainly the best I have
tried, and it has profiles for the D, up to ISO 1600.
Joe
I have had problems with them too.
Typical scenario with UPS is that the lens arrives in Albuquerque on
Thursday night. I know it is in Albuquerque, and it would be nice to
have it over the weekend. UPS will not let me pick it up. I get the lens
on Monday. This has happened, I think, three tim
Gave one to my wife last Christmas. She doesn't use it much, but our son
does. It gives nice images in normal light outdoors, or indoors with
flash. He keeps trying to use it in museums w/o flash, so the shutter
speed is too low and he wonders why the images are blurry. Use it in
decent light and
Shel, when I shot film, I consistently found that my favorite photos
came from this lens. Recently when I was shooting film again (B&W), I
found myself using it a lot.
It seems to be built well enough. As Godfrey said, everything on it
feels sturdy, smooth, and easy.
Joe
I think the newish DA 50(or is it 55) to 200 variable ap. zoom might be
ok for her. Its in her price range.
I know several on the list have it, just wondering if that would be a
good lens for someone who just uses a camera for basic
photography,garden shots and her cats.:-) Would you say its a
I did not fully see the quality of Pentax primes until I tried them on
my *ist D. For some reason they seem sharper on the APS-C sensor than
they ever did on film.
Joe
I have a package from KEH that arrived in Albuquerque on Friday. The
scheduled delivery day is next Wednesday. Let's see if they try to
deliver it tomorrow (which they could), or just sit on it for a day.
Joe
The stuff I photograph to make my quota of 1250 images per day ;-))
Shel
--
Shel, please tell us you don't really have a daily image quota. Or if
so, please tell us it isn't 1250 per day.
Joe
Has anyone found a way to use rectangular graduated neutral density
filters with this lens?
--
Gaffer's Tape? If you want to use a kludge on a top-of-the-line lens.
Joe
Re:
http://home.earthlink.net/~sbelinkoff/lotus.html
Shel, maybe -0.5 EV. That would help the highights and still keep the
yellow saturation.
Joe
I had the good fortune to spend 3-1/2 days there about a year ago. I
love the city.
What to see depends on their interests. Unfortunately, with only one
day, there are really two cities to see, Buda and Pest, split by the Danube.
Are they interested in photography?
If they get a really early
To detect problems with lenses sometimes you have to look through them
at a variety of angles, with the incoming light at a variety of angles
too. Look from the rear to the front.
I recently bought (and returned) an F* 300 f4.5 that appeared fine
looking straight through. If one looked through
"And if you are conceding that Pentax has indeed screwed their
customers, what exactly makes you think you wont be next in line???"
I believe I will be.
I fully expect that the *ist D successor with in-camera image
stabilization with support only SD cards, and that I will be screwed on
my mul
Hey, gang, look at these images:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=15110817
Last spring I bought (and returned) an F* 300 f4.5 that had residue on
the rear element that looked just like this. The rear of the lens also
smelled strongly of mothcake. I suspected that a
Doug Brewer wrote:
I don't know if that proves you're not crazy.
Because I wrote:
On Sep 20, 2005, at 8:50 PM, Joseph Tainter wrote:
Hey, gang, look at these images:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=15110817
Last spring I bought (and returned)
Shel, this is reputed to have the same optical formula as the FA 20
f2.8, which I have.
Some time back Rob Studdert complained of corner softness at larger
apertures on the A. Wheatfield retorted that it is probably as good in
the corners as anyone else's 20.
I have to say that I don't see c
Does anyone know this seller (especially anyone in Canada)?
http://tinyurl.com/c646q
The seller carries a lot of Pentax stuff, and only Pentax. Check the
feedback to see what s/he sells.
Is this Pentax Canada disposing of old or surplus inventory?
I e-mailed the seller and asked "Are you Pen
"I believe Joe Tainter did that some time ago. His conclusion was that
it's almost a toss up on performance ... they both perform very well,
the DA21 is slightly better on some aspects."
Correct. They are very close in terms of sharpness.
In shooting, the DA 21 does have some barrel distortion. I
Original Message
Subject: Re: Probably old news already
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 16:18:49 -0700
From: Joseph Tainter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.adorama.com/PX1650AFD.html $750
http://www.adorama.com/PX50135AFD.html $830
Some of you may really lik
Original Message
Subject: Re: Probably old news already
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 16:19:44 -0700
From: Joseph Tainter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.adorama.com/PX1650AFD.html $750
> http://www.adorama.com/PX50135AFD.html $830
>
> Some
Original Message
Subject: PESO - Da Bear
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 16:30:51 -0700
From: Joseph Tainter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Check out
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/kwaller/offwallphoto/id2.html
Taken in Denali National Park, Alaska during a fall sno
Aaaarghhh, enabled!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290085495701
Just a hazard bid, done a hour and a hlf before end of the auction. Hard
to believe that no one else bid on this.
Well, in the bottom of my heart I'm a prime guy, I'll report how I like
it, and will try to post s
I'm not talking about the date he was actually born, which was never
unequivocally stated. You're correct that so-called Christianity
adopted the date of a pagan holiday.
I was talking in the sense that we use a nomenclature that refers to
things as B.C. and A.D, with the implicit recognition
"Religions take time to evolve a fully-fledged belief system. Moslems,
of course, eschew graven images. Yet 7th century Islamic coins in the
Near East copied Byzantine forms, with many early Islamic coins showing
the emperor holding a cross."
And while I'm in the mood for such anecdotes, here i
> I suggest you look up solar calendars and sun worshipping.
> Specifically the festival of Sol Invictus and Mithraism, which
> actually competed with Christianity in the beginnings. The bottom line
> is that Christmas coincides with the solstice because this was good to
> market Christian
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6415531.stm
The army, that is. Swiss Navy not involved.
Joe
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Shot with the DA70mm LTD on the K10.
http://users.accesscomm.ca/wrobb/fellas/bella/mar0407.html
http://users.accesscomm.ca/wrobb/fellas/page3/page3.html
Have fun
William Robb
-
Nice, Bill. Looks like the three of you had fun.
The second set looks like a casting call for Call of the Wi
> I'm right with you on the DA 200/2.8. But I don't see that I need the
> DA 55, unless it can be shown that it substantially outperforms the
> slightly faster FA 50/.4
For me, it's the extra 5mm of FL.
I missed the FA50/.4. (). Something like that would keep me happy for
a very long time.
Wi
On 3/7/07, David Savage wrote:
> At 01:26 PM 7/03/2007, Joseph Tainter wrote:
> Instead of releasing a bloody "Roadmap" I wish Pentax would hurry the
f&#k
> up and release the damn lenses.
>
I agree! I had my eye on the Sigma 17-70 now I'm in agony seein
http://legis.state.nm.us/Sessions/07%20Regular/memorials/house/HJM054.html
http://tinyurl.com/2snxbo
Tom C.
-
Well, Pluto's discoverer lived and worked in NM. So of course Pluto is a
planet.
Heck, the Sigma 200-500 F2.8 could almost be a planet.
Joe
--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDM
"After hobbling around for the last several months on a bum right knee,
I finally had a complete new knew installed Monday morning."
You sound okay, Ken. Glad to hear it. Did they replace both condyles or one?
I may be facing this sometime too.
Joe
--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.n
"I don't see why Pentax has to stick with Sony forever. Wouldn't it be
cool if Pentax tied up with Foveon for their next DSLR sensor?"
For me, one of the least appealing things in digital photography would
be to have to remember three lens crop factors instead of two.
Now, if new Foveon had the
"I surf certain limited number of camera site in Japan and when I
encounter something which might be of interest to PDMLers, I try to
share them."
Ken, this is much appreciated. You are often our best source of
information. Thanks for doing it.
Joe
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http://www.tamron.co.jp/en/news/release_2007/0307_a001.html
It's a macro, like the new Sigma. According to tests, the Sigma achieved
its macro capability by design compromises elsewhere. It is weak at the
long end. If I were shopping for such a lens (I have the older,
non-macro Sigma EX 70-200
"I surf certain limited number of camera site in Japan and when I
encounter something which might be of interest to PDMLers, I try to
share them."
Ken has now unsubbed from the list. He participates in Japanese
discussion fora and has taken the time to translate long documents for
us. He has bee
Joseph Tainter wrote:
> http://www.tamron.co.jp/en/news/release_2007/0307_a001.html
>
> It's a macro, like the new Sigma. According to tests, the Sigma achieved
> its macro capability by design compromises elsewhere. It is weak at the
> long end. If I were shopping for suc
Suddently I can't find it at B&H's web site. I thought it was there a
few days ago. What a pity if it has been discontinued.
Joe
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PDML ers,
Since its Friday I'll post a shameless plug on my eBay auction items
for K-mount telephotos lenses ending on Sunday.
Tokina AT-X 400/5.6:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=005&sspagename=STRK%
3AMESE%3AIT&viewitem=&item=150098938936&rd=1&rd=1
Pentax K/500/4.5:
http://cgi
Scored another nuthatch. This guy was in deep, dark doodoo and was
shot at 1/125th off the monopod. F8, ISO 800. Flash must have helped.
SR as well. Luck too. Again, the A 400/5.6 plus the A 2X-S converter.
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=5700119
-
Darn little birds move constan
> It's this big:
>
> http://users.accesscomm.ca/wrobb/temp/71bd.jpg
>
It looks like a gun from an ultra violent video game... Or a missile
launcher.
-
Without the hood it looks a little like the Airbus A380...which a
colleague said reminded him of a French pig.
Joe
--
PDML Pentax-Di
This particular colleague wouldn't have been concerned about that.
Besides, I suspect that the aircraft is not being marketed on looks.
Joe
-
At the risk of offending the French Aerospace industry, isn't it?
Joseph Tainter wrote:
> > It's this big:
> >
>
URL wraps onto 3 lines.
-
It sold quite high--about $465 or so. I have the lens, but watched the
auction to see what it would bring. Answer: Much more than I paid for
mine, used, third hand, 7 years ago.
There's a real need for Pentax or someone to bring out a quality 400 in
KAF mount.
J
http://nedbunnell.blogspot.com/2007/03/youre-pentaxian-branding-campaign.html
Joe
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Here's an interview with Mr. Torigoe and Mr. Tatamika at PMA:
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/other/2007/03/12/5799.html
A translation was done by Katsura at Pentaxforums:
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/35557-post1.html
Basically, there will be replacement models for K100D and K10D this
ye
I was tempted to get a K100D when it came out. Now, I've decided to
use my *ist D. Why get sucked into wanting to keep up with everyone
else whenever a new model comes out..
Jim A.
-
That's a reasonable reaction, Jim. It's bad enough that computer
technology is changed so often. I'm
BTW, I did a little rechecking and my claim to have all the Pentax K-
mount 135s is premature - I still need to find copies of the F135/2.8
and the K135/3.5. Don't know how I missed that!
Patience, I must have patience, they will show up eventually... (I
keep telling myself)
Regards, Jim
-
Richard Day has posted a scan of an image taken with the DA 14 on film:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=22421936
It clearly won't work with any sensor much larger than what we have. In
my mind, this greatly diminishes the possibility that Pentax will ever
bring out
I expected in advance to use SV but not TAv. It turned out just the
opposite. I have used TAv with telephoto lenses, shooting birds. Set the
aperture and the shutter speed, and let the ISO set itself (up to 800,
no more).
Now that firmware version 1.10 makes it easier to change the ISO without
I've never seen a bad report on any macro lens. It seems to be something
that is simple to design.
Of course some are better than others. But I'm not familiar with any
that won't give you good results.
Joe
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I would like a 35mm 2.8 Macro
for APS too but I dont know of any out there yet.
jco
-
You are not alone. One is coming later this year: DA 35 F2.8 Macro Limited.
Probably no aperture simulator.
Joe
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PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.
P.S. I should qualify that I mean prime lenses.
Joe
-
I've never seen a bad report on any macro lens. It seems to be something
that is simple to design.
Of course some are better than others. But I'm not familiar with any
that won't give you good results.
Joe
--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail
It has been said here quite a few times that the 50/1.7 is a better
macro lens, but I don't think there was a 1.7 past the M or A series.
-
The 50 F1.7 started out as an M42 lens. I had it with my old H2 (H3?).
Then it was produced in K mount through, I believe, 1977. Anyway, it is
reputed
Just ignore my last post. Misinformation I am tired, and was thinking of
the 55 F1.8.
But the 50 F1.7 did originate in 1977, and continued through M, A, F,
and FA versions until it was terminated recently.
Joe
-
The 50 F1.7 started out as an M42 lens. I had it with my old H2 (H3?).
Then i
try this:
http://tinyurl.com/yvvekn
(my apologies if i spoiled someone's bidding...)
best,
mishka
-
Well, that's interesting. I haven't heard of that make before. Is it a
Chinese product?
And don't worry, Mishka. I'll bet the seller has more than one.
Joe
--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail Lis
There is no such thing as the perfect bag. Real Photographers have at
least 10 camera bags, each of which is configurable in at least 10
unique ways.
-
Right. I have a backpack, two shoulder bags, a shoulder/back sling bag,
and two belt packs. And I am always looking for better ones. They fi
K10D, Tamron SP 500mm mirror lens ISO 200, F8 1/125, Flash at hi manual
on K10D , raw, acr converted, adjusted and cropped to about 60%:
http://www.mypage.bluewin.ch/solicom/stare1.jpg
http://www.mypage.bluewin.ch/solicom/stare2.jpg
-
Well done, Markus, especially the second one.
Joe
--
There is a wonderful test of this lens in the April Popular Photography.
The results are very good. Very, very good. Pentax has designed another
great lens. It is sharp across the board, even sharp wide open at all
focal lengths. You can't ask for more.
I guess the DA* 50-135 F2.8 will have to
There's a 20 mm F2.5 that looks tempting for use in a
K10D-on-a-budget system:
http://www.rugift.com/photocameras/mir_47_k_lens.htm
Anyone have experience with that one? Alternatives?
-
Make sure it will fit under the overhanging rtf. As I recall, there was
some uncertainty about that when
http://pentaxlife.com/forum/topic/39?replies=1
The poster is a professional with ties to Pentax. But the 1.25 crop
sensor and FF rumors makes no sense considering Pentax's current lens
development strategy. And who would make those 12 mp sensors?
Joe
--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
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There's also this:
http://forums.clubsnap.com/showpost.php?p=2912785&postcount=11
Apparently fans of Sony rumors have been hearing things. The rumor
didn't entirely originate with Benjikan.
A discussion has started at dpreview about it:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&mes
If the new lenses cover FF, I don't think they'll be optimized for
APS-C. I'm no expert, but I think that in lens design, you have to
choose or lose.
Paul
-
The Tokina version of the 50-135 F2.8 is available. So it should be
possible to find out if it covers FF. Anyone know a Nikon or Canon
> I was joking around about this all along but, in fact, my memory is
> declining - tho I think
> not enough to be considered early alzheimers.
*They* do say, "memory is the second thing to go."
-
As my uncle put it, "The first thing to go is the hearing. The second
thing to go is The
http://users.accesscomm.ca/wrobb/fellas/portraits/portraits.html
All very nicely done, Bill--especially getting them to cooperate so well.
Joe
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=140097916540&fromMakeTrack=true
Does this count as Exotic?
Cheers
Beaker
-
I remember that lens from the 60s. I haven't seen a photo of that lens
since about the 60s, then suddenly within the past week I've seen two
original posts and li
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/lens/2007/03/19/5861.html
Dario
-
What is that around the front of the lens? It looks in the photo like
foam rubber. It must be something else. Imitation foam rubber?
Joe
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Hi
The lens roadmap shows a 55-300 in the pipleine.. Does anyone know
whether this will be an SDM lens ?
--
Regards
Patrick Genovese
-
Patrick, I believe we don't know yet. It seems that this lens will be a
complement to the forthcoming 17-70. If both of those are consumer
lenses, th
P-TTL flash control is in planning with Metz and will be introduced
during this year.
-
Will this be like Sigma, where you have to get a new chip (or with Metz
it would be a new module?) each time Pentax issues a new camera model?
Anyway, I'm sure Metz will get P-TTL correct.
Thanks,
Joe
I have an ebay sale there - but PAYPAL tells me the address is
unconfirmed
ann
-
Ann, I don't know what confirmed/unconfirmed addresses at Paypal mean.
Paypal tells me that my address is confirmed, but tells vendors that my
address is unconfirmed.
Check the buyer's feedback rating, a
I am not normally inclined toward street photography, but Tokyo's Ginza
District sure got me interested. Fascinating place:
http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/cat/5659/display/8466041
Specs at the bottom of the image.
I was very good in Tokyo. I didn't shop for a used FA* 300 F2.8, even
though
Re:
http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/cat/5659/display/8466041
-
Fascinating indeed. Joe, may I suggest that if the woman was in focus
you could have obtained different and in my eyes better picture.
Boris
-
Good one. Well composed. Nice use of the light.
Paul
-
Thanks for the c
I always thought that British cars up through the 1960s and even early
1970s were the most fun and interesting cars in the world.
Hence one of my perpetual problems: I tend to buy cars because I think
they are interesting. Guess what happens then.
When I was a kid in California in the 1960s, MG
Yesterday I tested this pup against the DA 16-45 f4 at 40 mm. and the FA
50 f1.7. The test set-up was my usual arrangement: mud-brick wall,
tripod, autofocus, ISO 200. Once in Photoshop, every image got Auto
Levels only; comparisons were done at Actual Pixels. Test distance was
about 40X the fo
According to Boz's site, the FA 135 has not been produced since 2000.
Since it has some purple fringing problems on digital, I would bet that
this one is due for a makeover, if Pentax decides to reissue that focal
length.
Joe
The Pentax content here is that I want to get Photoshop CS 2 and its PEF
converter.
My Windows 98SE installation has finally brought me to the point where I
will accept the pain of formatting two hard drives and starting over
with a clean installation, reinstall a lot of software and utilities,
Sorry to hear it, Mark.
I have use of a Flashtrax, which has generally done me just fine. I used
it a lot in Hungary last September, where I used it to back up 7 GB of
CF cards. If I had needed to reuse any of those cards, it would have
been my only source for some of the images.
Generally all
Sorry to hear about your problem, Fra. It seems to have been a bad tech
day all around.
Joe
Boris, you have gotten good advice about lenses and technique.
If you are concerned, shoot for a while with only your best lenses and
see if the images improve.
But the comparison you have done with another photographer's work is not
meaningful. Is he a better photographer than you? It sounds li
Lovely shots, Wendy, and congratulations. I especially liked the cover
shot catching the frisbie.
I've been trying to get just such a shot of my border collie, who also
chases frisbies. But the other members of my family are never around
when I am trying this, so I have to throw the frisbie mys
Does anyone know if either CS or CS 2 will run okay on an AMD Athlon
1.33 Ghz processor?
Adobe refuses to answer an e-mail question about this. Instead I am
referred to the web site, where (for CS) only Intel processors are
listed. This includes Pentium IV, which is equivalent to the above
Ath
Henri wrote:
"I thought I'd just contribute with a shot I'm pretty proud of. The King
of Sweden was visiting our small town last week and I got a few decent
shots of him."
In late September, 2003, I was at a conference in Lund (Sweden). After
that my wife and I went on to Stockholm, where I had
Thanks to everyone who responded. I think I need to clarify the question
a bit:
Background question: Adobe lists only Intel processors as the hardware
that will run PS CS2, including the Pentium III and IV. I have an Athlon
1.33 Ghz, which is equivalent to the Pentium IV.
So far everyone seems
Indeed PDML is alive. I have just retrieved my archived bookmarks file,
so I can quickly access my favorite site: PDML.
Gradually my XP machine (QuidNunc) is coming back to live.
Got PS CS 2 ordered, maybe arriving tomorrow.
Am I correct that Adobe's PEF converter costs extra? If so, is there any
Henri:
Take it anyway, give her the creditcard and tell her to go shopping.
Godfrey:
Do what you want.
Deal with the consequences.
Both experienced husbands, I expect.
As another such, I suspect she is concerned that you will spend time taking
pictures rather than with her and the baby.
Tell her y
P.S. This is a strategic and tactical dilemma, not a moral one.
Joe
"A 20-30mm lens would have to be a retrofocus design, wouldn't it? I'll
be fascinated to see how Pentax manage that one. :-)"
Not sure what you are asking, Steve. Pentax has wide-angle, retrofocus lenses.
Are you suggesting that such can't be a pancake design? I wouldn't know. Anyone
else?
Joe
"The Optio 50 uses Pentax lens elements, but is manufactured by Sanyo,
as are Nikon and Canon digital P&S cameras."
Really? I thought Ramon and Gloria assembled them in the Philippines.
Joe
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