[OAUTH-WG] Re: We cannot trust Issuers

2024-07-22 Thread Wayne Chang
Yep, TEEs definitely have limitations that should be managed via defense-in-depth to prevent things like side channel attacks. It’s also true that such identity systems based on transmission of raw digital signatures have been deployed in production today and continue to gain momentum. It’s impor

[OAUTH-WG] Re: We cannot trust Issuers

2024-07-22 Thread Watson Ladd
And the draft doesn't have a sufficiently strong statement saying this tech (which has significant limitations: every TEE has fallen due to side channels) is needed for relevant application scenarios. I'm not saying this work shouldn't continue: I'm saying that we need to ensure we get the privacy

[OAUTH-WG] Re: We cannot trust Issuers

2024-07-22 Thread Wayne Chang
Hi Watson, Here’s an approach based on TEEs that can in theory create unlinkability for things like mdocs and SD-JWTs while also conforming to FIPS 140-2/-3. No new crypto, and PQC-friendly. https://blog.spruceid.com/provably-forgotten-signatures-adding-privacy-to-digital-identity/ Best, - Wayne

[OAUTH-WG] Re: We cannot trust Issuers

2024-07-22 Thread Dick Hardt
Richard, it all depends on how you scope the problem. Hellō uses garden variety crypto and does not have collusion issues and has true minimal disclosure as Hellō is an abstraction layer and the original issuer is not exposed. The internal operation of Hellō prevents any party from viewing user d

[OAUTH-WG] I-D Action: draft-ietf-oauth-resource-metadata-07.txt

2024-07-22 Thread internet-drafts
Internet-Draft draft-ietf-oauth-resource-metadata-07.txt is now available. It is a work item of the Web Authorization Protocol (OAUTH) WG of the IETF. Title: OAuth 2.0 Protected Resource Metadata Authors: Michael B. Jones Phil Hunt Aaron Parecki Name:draft-ie

[OAUTH-WG] Re: We cannot trust Issuers

2024-07-22 Thread Michael Prorock
+1 Richard Mike Prorock Founder https://mesur.io/ Grab a meeting! https://calendar.app.google/aNUcr41gvTAiMUG49 On Mon, Jul 22, 2024 at 5:44 PM Richard Barnes wrote: > I would observe that any solution based on garden-variety digital > signature (not something zero-knowledge like BBS / JWP) w

[OAUTH-WG] Re: We cannot trust Issuers

2024-07-22 Thread Richard Barnes
I would observe that any solution based on garden-variety digital signature (not something zero-knowledge like BBS / JWP) will have problems with issuer/verifier collusion. One-time tokens and batch issuance don't help. There is no such thing as SD-JWT with issuer/verifier collusion resistance. A

[OAUTH-WG] Re: We cannot trust Issuers

2024-07-22 Thread Watson Ladd
On Mon, Jul 22, 2024, 3:30 PM John Bradley wrote: > I agree that single-use proof keys and batch issuance are a must. > > Issuer verifier collusion is admittedly a problem. To address that we do > need different cryptographic methods. > > MDOC also has the same issue. > > We should document the

[OAUTH-WG] Mail regarding rfc6749

2024-07-22 Thread Janewit. J
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[OAUTH-WG] Re: We cannot trust Issuers

2024-07-22 Thread John Bradley
I agree that single-use proof keys and batch issuance are a must. Issuer verifier collusion is admittedly a problem. To address that we do need different cryptographic methods. MDOC also has the same issue. We should document the risk, but short of stopping EUID and mobile driver's license dep

[OAUTH-WG] We cannot trust Issuers

2024-07-22 Thread Watson Ladd
Dear Oauth, I'm disappointed to see SD-JWT work continue with inadequate privacy considerations. The fact is an Issuer can link any showings to issuance of the credential. This is not foregrounded sufficiently in privacy considerations, nor do we discuss how to ensure users are aware. We really ne