Re: [NMusers] OMEGA BLOCK with mixture model?

2009-04-15 Thread andreas . krause
Nele, going by the nonmem user manual, part VIII, p 94 ($OMEGA), "If FIXED appears anywhere among the list of values, the entire block is fixed." I did not see anyone pointing that out yet. This does in fact imply that you need to reorder the sequence of random effects (which can be quite a nu

RE: [NMusers] VPC with Mixture Model

2009-04-15 Thread Mats Karlsson
Hi, Nick wrote: "Mats, can you suggest a way to try to correct for the Bayesian shrinkage problem for obtaining MIXEST?" As the problem is created by using model estimates for stratification, the simple answer is not to do it. I can't think of a situation where it would be useful to stratify bas

Re: [NMusers] OMEGA BLOCK with mixture model?

2009-04-15 Thread Nick Holford
Hi, It is indeed a nuisance to have to renumber all the ETAs if you have a complex model and you change the sequence of $OMEGA. You can of course choose to use the awk script which comes with WFN (http://wfn.sourceforge.net) translate an extended NM-TRAN control stream, which uses parameter

RE: [NMusers] OMEGA BLOCK with mixture model?

2009-04-15 Thread Bob Leary
If you want both CL1 and CL2 to be correlated with F (i.e. allow Omega(CL1,F) and Omega(CL2,F) to be free in the objective function optimization), then I don't think there is any simple reordering of the random effects that will allow the correlation between CL1 and CL2 to be fixed to zero - i

RE: [NMusers] OMEGA BLOCK with mixture model?

2009-04-15 Thread Christian Laveille
Dear all, There is an undocumented option in NONMEM called Band, allowing to fix at least one correlation to zero in a block(n). In the specific case you just have to put zero as initial estimate for Omega (CL1,CL2). It should work I used it in the past with NONMEM V! Hope this helps.

[NMusers] OMEGA selection

2009-04-15 Thread Ethan Wu
Dear all,   I am fitting a PD response, and the equation goes like this: total response = baseline+f(placebo response) +f(drug response) first, I tried full omega block, and model was able to converge, but $COV stop failed. To me, this indicates that too many parameters in the model. The structure

RE: [NMusers] OMEGA selection

2009-04-15 Thread Bachman, William
Well, the first thing that I would do is look at the magnitude of the estimates of the etas. I would eliminate those etas that are poorly estimated (essentially the very large values or those approaching zero). From: owner-nmus...@globomaxnm.com [mailto:owner-nmu

RE: [NMusers] OMEGA BLOCK with mixture model?

2009-04-15 Thread Diane R Mould
Dear All I am not sure if this topic has been covered before or not, but as its related to the question below, I thought I would bring it up again. I have to wonder at the appropriateness of including the IIV term for F in an omega BLOCK structure in the first place? I can certainly unders

RE: [NMusers] OMEGA selection

2009-04-15 Thread Bachman, William
also, you will get a lot of responses to ignore whether or not the $COV step succeeds or fails (especially Nick). From: owner-nmus...@globomaxnm.com [mailto:owner-nmus...@globomaxnm.com] On Behalf Of Ethan Wu Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 11:47 AM To: nmusers@gl

Re: [NMusers] OMEGA selection

2009-04-15 Thread Nick Holford
Ethan, Do not pay any attention to whether or not the $COV step runs or even if the run is 'SUCCESSFUL' to conclude anything about your model. Your opinion is not supported experimentally e.g. see http://www.mail-archive.com/nmusers@globomaxnm.com/msg00454.html for discussion and references.

RE: [NMusers] OMEGA selection

2009-04-15 Thread Mark Sale - Next Level Solutions
Nick et al.    At this risk of starting an discussion that probably has little mileage left in it.  First I agree with Nick on covariance - it probably doesn't matter.  But, I'd like to point out what may be an error in our logic.  We content that we have demonstrated that covariance doesn't matte

Re: [NMusers] OMEGA selection

2009-04-15 Thread Ethan Wu
some Etas estimated to be around 2 or 3, but since I am fitting a quite noisy PD data,  I think they are actually reasonable no Etas close to 0 cov% esimated in the range of 10-90%.should those small ones like 10%  be taken out?   From: "Bachman, William" To:

Re: [NMusers] OMEGA selection

2009-04-15 Thread Ethan Wu
Nick, in this case, the model fixed effects parameter estimates do make sense since the objective of analysis is for simulation,  should I still ignore failing of $COV ? From: Nick Holford To: nmusers@globomaxnm.com Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 12:17:57 PM

RE: [NMusers] OMEGA selection

2009-04-15 Thread Bill Bachman
In my opinion, I would not remove those in the 10-90% range. I would be suspect of anything over 100%, even with noisy data, they are being poorly estimated. _ From: owner-nmus...@globomaxnm.com [mailto:owner-nmus...@globomaxnm.com] On Behalf Of Ethan Wu Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 200

RE: [NMusers] OMEGA BLOCK with mixture model?

2009-04-15 Thread Alison Boeckmann
I think Christian is referring to this feature of NONMEM 5 (from the NONMEM 5 Supplement guide): "Changes to NONMEM Inputs Band Symmetric Matrices An initial estimate of a diagonal block of ether the OMEGA or SIGMA matrices may have a band symmetric form, in which case the final estimate has the s

Re: [NMusers] OMEGA selection

2009-04-15 Thread Nick Holford
Mark, I agree with your logic. In the meantime I will ignore the $COV step (it rarely happens for me) and wait for some empirical evidence that the $COV step is of demonstrable value for model building. Perhaps your grid computing system could take on that challenge by comparing the results o

[NMusers] Plotting output as multiple pngs in MIfuns

2009-04-15 Thread pavan kumar
Hi, How can I modify the diagnostic plot output file from pdf to multiple pngs after running NONR function using MIfuns package developed by Metrum Institute? I tried exploring the functions in R but each function led to another function. I am lost on which function exactly defines the device. 

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2009-04-15 Thread Zhang, Hefei
Dear Sir/Madam, I have been a NONMEN user for a year and I have benefited from the discussion, I really appreciate your effort to set up this forum. At this time, however, I can't continue my subscription for further discussion any further, and I would be really thankful if you can unsubscribe

Re: [NMusers] Plotting output as multiple pngs in MIfuns

2009-04-15 Thread William Knebel
Pavan, There is no option in NONR that will allow the output of multiple png's in place of one pdf. We did away with an option like that a number of versions ago. What you can do is supply your own R script using the "epilog" argument of NONR. There is a starter epilog script titled epilogEx.R in

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RE: [NMusers] OMEGA BLOCK with mixture model?

2009-04-15 Thread nele . plock
Dear all, thank you for all your responses, and it seems to me the topic has raised quite some discussions. Especially the point Diane brought up seemed to be a very reasonable thought to me, and I will definitely try and see if this changes anything with respect to model stability, and if I ca