RE: pontification bloat (was 10GE TOR port buffers (was Re: 10G switch recommendaton))

2012-01-29 Thread George Bonser
Additionally, ECN is just between hosts, end to end. If an flow is not ECN enabled (neither of the ECN bits set), then the routing gear does what it always has done, drop a packet. Only if one of the ECN bits is already set (meaning the flow is ECN aware, end to end) does the router set the ot

RE: pontification bloat (was 10GE TOR port buffers (was Re: 10G switch recommendaton))

2012-01-29 Thread George Bonser
> > This sounds a lot like most peoples ipv6 rationale as well. > > > I'm still feeling some scars from last time Ecn was enabled in my > hosts. Many firewalls would eat packets with. Ecn enabled. That was, I believe, nearly 10 years ago, was it not? There has been considerable testing with

Re: pontification bloat (was 10GE TOR port buffers (was Re: 10G switch recommendaton))

2012-01-29 Thread Jared Mauch
See below Jared Mauch On Jan 27, 2012, at 9:13 PM, George Bonser wrote: >> Router(config)# policy-map pol1 >> Router(config-pmap)# class class-default >> Router(config-pmap-c)# bandwidth per 70 >> Router(config-pmap-c)# random-detect >> Router(config-pmap-c)# random-detect ecn >> >> Requires o

Re: BDP discussion pointers: was: Re pontification bloat (was 10GE TOR port buffers (was Re: 10G switch recommendaton))

2012-01-28 Thread Jim Gettys
On 01/28/2012 10:28 AM, Jim Gettys wrote: > On 01/27/2012 08:31 PM, Randy Bush wrote: for those who say bufferbloat is a problem, do you have wred enabled on backbone or customer links? >>> For *most backbone networks* it is a no-op on the backbone. To be >>> more precise, if the backbon

BDP discussion pointers: was: Re pontification bloat (was 10GE TOR port buffers (was Re: 10G switch recommendaton))

2012-01-28 Thread Jim Gettys
On 01/27/2012 08:31 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >>> for those who say bufferbloat is a problem, do you have wred enabled >>> on backbone or customer links? >> For *most backbone networks* it is a no-op on the backbone. To be >> more precise, if the backbone is at least 10x, and preferably more >> like 5

Re: pontification bloat (was 10GE TOR port buffers (was Re: 10G switch recommendaton))

2012-01-27 Thread Leo Bicknell
In a message written on Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 11:02:14AM +0900, Randy Bush wrote: > one problem is that we do not have good tools to look at a link and > suggest parms. how did you derive those? It's actually simple math, it just can get moderate complex. Let's say you have a 10Mbps ethernet inte

RE: pontification bloat (was 10GE TOR port buffers (was Re: 10G switch recommendaton))

2012-01-27 Thread George Bonser
> Router(config)# policy-map pol1 > Router(config-pmap)# class class-default > Router(config-pmap-c)# bandwidth per 70 > Router(config-pmap-c)# random-detect > Router(config-pmap-c)# random-detect ecn > > Requires other bits in the network to be ECN aware, but if they are, > good stuff. > > -

Re: pontification bloat (was 10GE TOR port buffers (was Re: 10G switch recommendaton))

2012-01-27 Thread Leo Bicknell
In a message written on Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 10:31:20AM +0900, Randy Bush wrote: > (embarrassed to say, but to set an honest example, i do not believe iij > does) I also want to take this opportunity to say there are some cool new features (that I have not had a chance to deploy myself) that may h

Re: pontification bloat (was 10GE TOR port buffers (was Re: 10G switch recommendaton))

2012-01-27 Thread Randy Bush
>> when a line card is designed to buffer the b*d of a trans-pac 40g, the >> oddities on an intra-pop link have been observed to spike to multiple >> seconds. > Please turn that buffer down. not my router. research probes seeing fun anomalies around the global network. > cribbing from a previous

Re: pontification bloat (was 10GE TOR port buffers (was Re: 10G switch recommendaton))

2012-01-27 Thread Leo Bicknell
In a message written on Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 10:31:20AM +0900, Randy Bush wrote: > when a line card is designed to buffer the b*d of a trans-pac 40g, the > oddities on an intra-pop link have been observed to spike to multiple > seconds. Please turn that buffer down. It's bad enough to take a 100m

Re: pontification bloat (was 10GE TOR port buffers (was Re: 10G switch recommendaton))

2012-01-27 Thread Randy Bush
>> for those who say bufferbloat is a problem, do you have wred enabled >> on backbone or customer links? > > For *most backbone networks* it is a no-op on the backbone. To be > more precise, if the backbone is at least 10x, and preferably more > like 50x faster than the largest single TCP flow f

Re: pontification bloat (was 10GE TOR port buffers (was Re: 10G switch recommendaton))

2012-01-27 Thread Leo Bicknell
In a message written on Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 10:06:20AM +0900, Randy Bush wrote: > for those who say bufferbloat is a problem, do you have wred enabled on > backbone or customer links? For *most backbone networks* it is a no-op on the backbone. To be more precise, if the backbone is at least 10x,

pontification bloat (was 10GE TOR port buffers (was Re: 10G switch recommendaton))

2012-01-27 Thread Randy Bush
for those who say bufferbloat is a problem, do you have wred enabled on backbone or customer links? randy