Re: What's really needed is a routing slot market

2011-02-08 Thread Eliot Lear
Hi everyone, Responding to multiple messages here: On 2/6/11 10:16 PM, John Levine wrote: >>> What's really needed is seperate the routing slot market from the >>> address allocation market. >> Bingo! In fact, having an efficient market for obtaining routing of a >> given prefix, combined with IP

Re: What's really needed is a routing slot market (was: Using IPv6 withprefixes shorter than a /64 on a LAN)

2011-02-08 Thread Matthew Petach
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Koch, Andrew wrote: > On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 3:10 PM, Owen DeLong > >> That's as close as I think I can get to an IPv6 CIDR report >> for the moment. > > Looks like Geoff has you already setup. > > http://www.cidr-report.org/v6/as2.0/ > > Andy Koch Excellent, thank

RE: Telco style routing, was What's really needed is a routing slot market

2011-02-08 Thread Nathan Eisenberg
> Right. That works great in an environment where the regulators require that > every telco pay Neustar to maintain the LNP databases, and send all the > updates promptly when a number is ported or disconnected. > > The telcos pay Neustar $300 million a year to run the database. I'm sure > they'

Re: Telco style routing, was What's really needed is a routing slot market

2011-02-08 Thread John Levine
>The way LNP works is a good example of PSTN style routing scaling. ... >When a phone call is made, a TCAP query is launched by the originating >switch to a set of STPs that then route it to an LNP database, that has >a full list of every ported number, and its LRN, and a few other tidbits >of

Re: What's really needed is a routing slot market

2011-02-08 Thread Paul Timmins
On 02/08/2011 11:01 AM, Neil Harris wrote: They did indeed, but they did it by centrally precomputing and then downloading centrally-built routing tables to each exchange, with added statically-configured routing between telco provider domains, and then doing step-by-step call setup, with add

Re: What's really needed is a routing slot market

2011-02-08 Thread Neil Harris
On 07/02/11 14:25, Jamie Bowden wrote: It would help if we weren't shipping the routing equivalent of the pre DNS /etc/hosts all over the network (it's automated, but it's still the equivalent). There has to be a better way to handle routing information than what's currently being done. The old

RE: What's really needed is a routing slot market (was: Using IPv6 withprefixes shorter than a /64 on a LAN)

2011-02-07 Thread Koch, Andrew
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 3:10 PM, Owen DeLong > That's as close as I think I can get to an IPv6 CIDR report > for the moment. Looks like Geoff has you already setup. http://www.cidr-report.org/v6/as2.0/ Andy Koch

Re: What's really needed is a routing slot market (was: Using IPv6 withprefixes shorter than a /64 on a LAN)

2011-02-07 Thread c...@daydream.com
If you look at Gert Doering's slides that I presented at NANOG (in the IPv6 Deployment Experiences track) I believe it is 1.4 prefixes per ASN in IPv6 and something like 10.5 prefixes per ASN in IPv4. There are also descriptions of the reasons for some of these multiple advertisements in IPv6 as

Re: What's really needed is a routing slot market (was: Using IPv6 withprefixes shorter than a /64 on a LAN)

2011-02-07 Thread Owen DeLong
On Feb 7, 2011, at 12:19 PM, Matthew Petach wrote: > On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: >> > ... >> On the other hand, when we can deprecate global routing of IPv4, we >> will see an earth shattering improvement as the current 10:1 prefix >> to provider ratio (300,000 prefixes

Re: What's really needed is a routing slot market (was: Using IPv6 withprefixes shorter than a /64 on a LAN)

2011-02-07 Thread Matthew Petach
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: > ... > On the other hand, when we can deprecate global routing of IPv4, we > will see an earth shattering improvement as the current 10:1 prefix > to provider ratio (300,000 prefixes for ~30,000 active ASNs) drops > to something more like 2:1 in

Re: What's really needed is a routing slot market (was: Using IPv6 withprefixes shorter than a /64 on a LAN)

2011-02-07 Thread Owen DeLong
On Feb 7, 2011, at 8:30 AM, William Herrin wrote: > On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Jamie Bowden wrote: >> It would help if we weren't shipping the routing equivalent of the pre >> DNS /etc/hosts all over the network (it's automated, but it's still the >> equivalent). There has to be a better w

Re: What's really needed is a routing slot market

2011-02-07 Thread Jack Bates
On 2/7/2011 10:30 AM, William Herrin wrote: Ideas like LISP take the former approach. Ideas like SCTP and Multipath TCP take the latter. The deployment prospects are not promising. I'm rusty on LISP, but I believe it was designed to solve the DFZ problem itself, while SCTP and Multipath TCP

Re: What's really needed is a routing slot market (was: Using IPv6 withprefixes shorter than a /64 on a LAN)

2011-02-07 Thread William Herrin
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Jamie Bowden wrote: > It would help if we weren't shipping the routing equivalent of the pre > DNS /etc/hosts all over the network (it's automated, but it's still the > equivalent).  There has to be a better way to handle routing information > than what's currently

RE: What's really needed is a routing slot market (was: Using IPv6 withprefixes shorter than a /64 on a LAN)

2011-02-07 Thread Jamie Bowden
s to be learned from there. Jamie -Original Message- From: John Curran [mailto:jcur...@istaff.org] Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 11:00 AM To: Mark Andrews Cc: NANOG list Subject: What's really needed is a routing slot market (was: Using IPv6 withprefixes shorter than a /64 on a LAN) O

Re: What's really needed is a routing slot market

2011-02-06 Thread Jack Bates
On 2/6/2011 3:16 PM, John Levine wrote: I can imagine some technical backpressure, particularly against networks that don't aggregate their routes, but money? Forget about it, unless perhaps you want to mix them into the peering/transit negotiations. On the other hand, the ESPN3 extortion work

Re: What's really needed is a routing slot market

2011-02-06 Thread Dorn Hetzel
> > > 1) You get a note from the owner of jidaw.com, a large ISP in Nigeria, > telling you that they have two defaultless routers so they'd like a > share of the route fees. Due to the well known fraud problem in > Nigeria, please pay them into the company's account in the Channel > Islands. What

Re: What's really needed is a routing slot market

2011-02-06 Thread William Herrin
On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Joel Jaeggli wrote: > On 2/6/11 8:00 AM, John Curran wrote: >> On Feb 5, 2011, at 9:40 PM, Mark Andrews wrote: >>> What's really needed is seperate the routing slot market from the >>> address allocation market. >> >> Bingo! In fact, having an efficient market for

Re: What's really needed is a routing slot market

2011-02-06 Thread John Levine
>> What's really needed is seperate the routing slot market from the >> address allocation market. >Bingo! In fact, having an efficient market for obtaining routing of a >given prefix, combined with IPv6 vast identifier space, could >actually satisfy the primary goals that we hold for a long-term

Re: What's really needed is a routing slot market

2011-02-06 Thread Jimmy Hess
On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Joel Jaeggli wrote: > So assuming this operates on a pollution model the victims of routing > table bloat are compensated by the routing table pollutors for the use > of the slots which they have to carry. so I take the marginal cost of In this case the "victims"

Re: What's really needed is a routing slot market

2011-02-06 Thread Joel Jaeggli
On 2/6/11 9:32 AM, John Curran wrote: > One hopes that the costs of consuming routing table slots creates > backpressure to discourage needless use, and that the royalities > receive offset the costs of carrying any additional routing table > slots. > > Note that our present system lacks both cons

Re: What's really needed is a routing slot market

2011-02-06 Thread John Curran
On Feb 6, 2011, at 12:15 PM, Joel Jaeggli wrote: > > So assuming this operates on a pollution model the victims of routing > table bloat are compensated by the routing table pollutors for the use > of the slots which they have to carry. so I take the marginal cost of > the slots that I need subtra

Re: What's really needed is a routing slot market

2011-02-06 Thread Joel Jaeggli
On 2/6/11 8:00 AM, John Curran wrote: > On Feb 5, 2011, at 9:40 PM, Mark Andrews wrote: > >> What's really needed is seperate the routing slot market from the >> address allocation market. > > Bingo! In fact, having an efficient market for obtaining routing of a > given prefix, combined with IPv

What's really needed is a routing slot market (was: Using IPv6 with prefixes shorter than a /64 on a LAN)

2011-02-06 Thread John Curran
On Feb 5, 2011, at 9:40 PM, Mark Andrews wrote: > What's really needed is seperate the routing slot market from the > address allocation market. Bingo! In fact, having an efficient market for obtaining routing of a given prefix, combined with IPv6 vast identifier space, could actually satisfy th