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On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 1:40 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> And those network security people generally don't hang out
> on NANOG. Instead they hang out in various security forums
> like MAAWG etc.
>
Not sure why you assume that -- I'm sure ther
> It is not vigilantism, it is the common law, rooted in
> ancient English history, of the "shire reeve", who we now
> call the "sheriff".
Reeve means "called", from the Germanic verb "rufen".
In other words, this person is someone who is called
to the duty by the shire. The point that has been
I'll argue that the term "vigilante" doesn't belong in this conversation.
(Apologies to those who have seen this reasoning elsewhere.)
Nobody did anything *to* them, it's just that folks stopped doing
things *for* them, as an act of self-defense after many years of
non-stop, prolific abuse.
---Rs
ED]>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:02:21 PM
Subject: Re: Renesys Blog Article [Was: Re: the Intercage mess]
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008, Paul Ferguson wrote:
Just a side-note: Rensys has an interesting blog article up today on this
Atrivo/Intercage &quo
Henry Linneweh wrote:
> If a consensus can be reached here, we have seen a rise in this, that does
> raise concerns
> of a RIAA/MPAA type of mindset, which is detrimental
>
> vigilante Definition vigi·lante (vij′ə lan′tē, -län′-)
It is not vigilantism, it is the common law, rooted in ancient
ptember 24, 2008 6:02:21 PM
Subject: Re: Renesys Blog Article [Was: Re: the Intercage mess]
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008, Paul Ferguson wrote:
> Just a side-note: Rensys has an interesting blog article up today on this
> Atrivo/Intercage "mess":
>
> http://www.renesys.com/blog/2008/09/inte
IL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:59 PM
To: William Pitcock
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: the Intercage mess
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On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 7:52 PM, William Pitcock
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 19:28 -0700
> From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Sep 25 10:45:34 2008
> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 08:42:22 -0700
> From: "David W. Hankins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: the Intercage mess
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 11:24:17AM +0900, Randy Bush wro
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 11:24:17AM +0900, Randy Bush wrote:
> John Bambenek wrote:
> > When there is no law to speak of all that is left is tribal justice.
>
> this way lies lynch mobs
Maybe mobs, but not (Charles) Lynch mobs. No one wants to deprive
anyone of life or limb.
> shall we at least
Rich Kulawiec wrote:
On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 10:10:42PM -0500, William Pitcock wrote:
I said _new_ approach. I agree that it was overdue, but they are being
cooperative with the anti-abuse community, so I think it is appropriate
to give them an opportunity to deliver on their promise.
We did
>No, but forcing them offline now that they are taking a new approach to
>handling abuse is ridiculous.
>
>Intercage are reaching out to the anti-abuse community and yet some
>people on NANOG keep interfering with the cleanup process. How do you
>expect them to clean up their network and return to
On 9/25/08, Paul Vixie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> so, now begins the search for the line that mustn't be crossed. if they
> have N spamming customer or M "captured" machines running C&C and they
> disconnect such customers after P warnings or Q days, then will the
> community still rise up i
On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 10:10:42PM -0500, William Pitcock wrote:
> I said _new_ approach. I agree that it was overdue, but they are being
> cooperative with the anti-abuse community, so I think it is appropriate
> to give them an opportunity to deliver on their promise.
We did that. In 2003. And
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On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 10:45 PM, Paul Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>>> Why is Intercage hosting Cernel.net?
>>>
>>> cernel.net -A-> 69.50.176.227
>>>
>>> AS | IP | AS Name
>>> 27595 | 69.50.176.227| INTERCAGE - InterC
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On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 11:04 PM, William Pitcock
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Thanks for playing, but next time you might want to point out something
> that is actually online. It will certaintly make your argument be more
> fact-based.
>
> Or mayb
On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 21:50 -0700, Paul Ferguson wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 8:10 PM, William Pitcock
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > Esthost are nullrouted as of this morning. Even their administrative
> > network is nullrouted.
> >
> > I think that is a good indication. As I said, if
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William Pitcock) writes:
> ... forcing them offline now that they are taking a new approach to
> handling abuse is ridiculous. ...
renaming, renumbering, and rehoming the darkest parts of their empire is
not a new approach to handling abuse, it's the most common thing that gray
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On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Paul Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>> Why is Intercage hosting Cernel.net?
>>
>> cernel.net -A-> 69.50.176.227
>>
>> AS | IP | AS Name
>> 27595 | 69.50.176.227| INTERCAGE - InterCage, In
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On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 9:50 PM, Paul Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Why is Intercage hosting Cernel.net?
>
> cernel.net -A-> 69.50.176.227
>
> AS | IP | AS Name
> 27595 | 69.50.176.227| INTERCAGE - InterCage, Inc.
>
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On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 8:10 PM, William Pitcock
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Esthost are nullrouted as of this morning. Even their administrative
> network is nullrouted.
>
> I think that is a good indication. As I said, if you have any still open
Randy Bush wrote:
John Bambenek wrote:
When there is no law to speak of all that is left is tribal justice.
this way lies lynch mobs
shall we at least apply a vernier of civilization?
randy
While I appreciate the points both you and John are attempting to make,
as someone who
William Pitcock wrote:
On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 19:28 -0700, Paul Ferguson wrote:
On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 7:24 PM, Randy Bush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
John Bambenek wrote:
When there is no law to speak of all that is left is tribal justice.
this way lies lynch mobs
sha
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On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Blake Pfankuch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Ok, as this seems to have turned into a pissing match, can we slow this
> down a bit? 50+ emails a day for a week and nothing good of it? Yes yes
> we have purged the inter
p your network clean."
-Original Message-
From: Paul Ferguson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:14 PM
To: William Pitcock
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: the Intercage mess
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On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 8:10 PM
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On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 8:10 PM, William Pitcock
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I said _new_ approach. I agree that it was overdue, but they are being
> cooperative with the anti-abuse community, so I think it is appropriate
> to give them an opportun
On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 19:58 -0700, Paul Ferguson wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 7:52 PM, William Pitcock
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 19:28 -0700, Paul Ferguson wrote:
>
> >> I think that _more_than_reasonable_ background research, historical
> >> record, etc. have m
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On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 7:52 PM, William Pitcock
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 19:28 -0700, Paul Ferguson wrote:
>> I think that _more_than_reasonable_ background research, historical
>> record, etc. have met the qualifications o
On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 19:28 -0700, Paul Ferguson wrote:
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>
> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 7:24 PM, Randy Bush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > John Bambenek wrote:
> >> When there is no law to speak of all that is left is tribal justice.
> >
> > this wa
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On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 7:24 PM, Randy Bush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> John Bambenek wrote:
>> When there is no law to speak of all that is left is tribal justice.
>
> this way lies lynch mobs
>
> shall we at least apply a vernier of civilization?
>
Randy Bush wrote:
shall we at least apply a vernier of civilization?
A veneer would be ever better, unless you are into fine tuning.
John Bambenek wrote:
> When there is no law to speak of all that is left is tribal justice.
this way lies lynch mobs
shall we at least apply a vernier of civilization?
randy
When there is no law to speak of all that is left is tribal justice.
That doesn't make the problem the tribe, the real problem is the
lawlessness.
It would much rather prefer that we find a way to not let ISPs
externalize their "costs" in taking money from bad people who do nothing
but cause
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008, Paul Ferguson wrote:
Just a side-note: Rensys has an interesting blog article up today on this
Atrivo/Intercage "mess":
http://www.renesys.com/blog/2008/09/internet_vigilantism_1.shtml
FYI,
I have but one comment.
There is a difference between Vigilantism as it is percei
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On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 5:41 PM, Joe Provo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> The spine to do it left with suits minding the store & managing to
> the tune of fickle investors. For the same reason just refusing
> deaggregates has become difficult: the ba
On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 01:37:43PM +, *Hobbit* wrote:
[snip]
> If this happened to some of the other major sources of crap that
> I'm thinking of, it would make the freaking NATIONAL NEWS. Where's
> the BACKBONE to go after the real high-volume sources, rather than
> continuing to kick sand in
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008, *Hobbit* wrote:
While it's good to see some community effort going toward slapping
a lid on misbehaving sources, how about a little consistency in
the bigger picture?
Consider this sort of scenario: An ISP allows its infrastructure
to emit spam and host compromised machines
*Hobbit* wrote:
Where's
the BACKBONE to go after the real high-volume sources, rather than
continuing to kick sand in the face of some podunk little guy who
can no longer defend himself?
_H*
He never could defend himself, but he still hosts these companies
(though months and years later he'
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