Re: [OT] Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

On 2/15/2015 09:53, Jack Bates wrote: Most engineers know when they've crossed the line from trivial/mundane into creative. It tends to be linked to our pride. I wish it did not so often be driven by the thought that this may be an opportunity to game the system for personal gain. -- The u

Re: [OT] Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 09:53:46 -0600, Jack Bates said: > want IP; legal protection). One way around this, most likely, is to > establish your art as public domain (allowing you continued use of the > foundation work, while losing the more specific details associated with > that one project). By doin

Re: [OT] Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

On 2/15/2015 8:57 AM, William Herrin wrote: On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 12:49 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: This assumes that Copyright is the only IP protection out there. There are actually two distinct realms of IP protection afforded in the US. Actually, there are four: copyright, patent, trademark a

Re: [OT] Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 12:49 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: > This assumes that Copyright is the only IP protection out there. There > are actually two distinct realms of IP protection afforded in the US. Actually, there are four: copyright, patent, trademark and trade secret. A network configuration c

Re: [OT] Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

> Copyright law basically says that if there is any substantive creative input > into a work's creation then the work is not only copyrightable, unless the > author explicitly says different it's also copyrighted. Throw a paint filled > balloon at a canvas and the resulting splatter is copyright

Re: [OT] Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 10:26 PM, Skeeve Stevens < ske...@eintellegonetworks.com> wrote: > My views are that if artistic endeavour is involved, then it is IP. > Architecture is certainly that... the look... but, the pipes, sewerage, > electricity, door locks... are not. They are products, bought o

Re: [OT] Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 22:21:00 +1100, Skeeve Stevens said: > Personally, I don't think so. Sure some awesomely smart engineers designed > this... but did they 'create' anything to do it? I already cited legislative history that indicates that even things like phone directories are suitable for cop

Re: [OT] Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

ee that architects don't only deal with buildings - they think > of people, places, materials, philosophy and history, and only then > consider the actual building? > > > > Ahad > > > > -Original Message- > From: William Waites [mailto:wwai...@tardis.

RE: [OT] Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

To: a...@telcoinabox.com Cc: ske...@eintellegonetworks.com; o...@delong.com; b...@herrin.us; nanog@nanog.org Subject: [OT] Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 11:43:14 +1100, Ahad Aboss said: > In a sense, you are an artist as network architecture > is an ar

Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

On 12 Feb 2015, at 3:12, Skeeve Stevens wrote: Hi all, I have two perspectives I am trying to address with regard to network design and intellectual property. 1) The business who does the design - what are their rights? 2) The customer who asked for the rights from a consultant My personal t

Re: [OT] Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

Thank you for looking up facts, laws, etc... The rest is merely opinion, and wouldn't necessarily help someone trying to protect their network designs. On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 11:25 AM, wrote: > On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 10:28:25 -0500, William Herrin said: > > > I have to disagree with you there. Thi

Re: [OT] Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 13:36:43 -0500, William Herrin said: > On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 12:25 PM, wrote: > > If catalogs and directories are covered, config files are... :) > > Smells like a Friday challenge for who can produce the most "artistic" > yet functionally correct Cisco configuration. All t

Re: [OT] Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 12:25 PM, wrote: > The issue with software wasn't if it was "art", but if it was a literary work > (they struggled for a while with the concept of machine-readable versus human > readable). > > If catalogs and directories are covered, config files are... :) Smells like a

Re: [OT] Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 10:28:25 -0500, William Herrin said: > I have to disagree with you there. This particular ship sailed four decades > ago when CONTU found computer software to be copyrightable and the > subsequent legislation and litigation agreed. The output of "craft" is copyrightable even i

Re: [OT] Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 8:54 AM, Skeeve Stevens < ske...@eintellegonetworks.com> wrote: > On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 8:55 PM, William Waites wrote: >> An engineer or architect in the usual setting, no matter how skilled, >> is not doing art because the whole activity is pre-conceived. Even a > > Exce

[OT] Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 11:43:14 +1100, Ahad Aboss said: > In a sense, you are an artist as network architecture > is an art in itself. It involves interaction with time, > processes, people and things or an intersection between all. This Friday's off-topic post for NANOG: Doing art is

Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

ovides some content to > support your case :) > > Regards, > Ahad > > > -Original Message- > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Owen DeLong > Sent: Friday, 13 February 2015 6:46 AM > To: William Herrin > Cc: nanog@nanog.org > Subject: Re: In

RE: Intellectual Property in Network Design

William Herrin Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design The extent to which this is technically feasible and how one must go about it actually varies greatly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Something well worth considering given the number of jurisdictions already

Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

The extent to which this is technically feasible and how one must go about it actually varies greatly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Something well worth considering given the number of jurisdictions already mentioned in the current discussion. There are a number of possible concerns that t

Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 7:36 AM, Skeeve Stevens wrote: > Actually Bill... I have two (conflicting) perspectives as I said but to > clarify: > > 1) A customer asked 'Can you make sure we have the IP for the network > design' which I was wondering if it is even technically possible Hi Skeev

Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

I like this take on it... thanks David. ...Skeeve *Skeeve Stevens - Founder & Chief Network Architect* eintellego Networks Pty Ltd Email: ske...@eintellegonetworks.com ; Web: eintellegonetworks.com Phone: 1300 239 038 ; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; Skype: skeeve Facebook: eintellegonetworks

Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

Exactly my thoughts Mark ...Skeeve *Skeeve Stevens - Founder & Chief Network Architect* eintellego Networks Pty Ltd Email: ske...@eintellegonetworks.com ; Web: eintellegonetworks.com Phone: 1300 239 038 ; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; Skype: skeeve Facebook: eintellegonetworks

Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

> And to compound the (perceived) problem, any IP embedded in a network > design is almost always "prior art". It's not a rabbit-hole worth going > down - I agree with Randy, i have four lives. iij research, dev, ... our goal is to publish our ideas there are coworkers doing very innovative de

Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

On 12/Feb/15 14:58, Michael Butler wrote: > > And to compound the (perceived) problem, any IP embedded in a network > design is almost always "prior art". It's not a rabbit-hole worth going > down - I agree with Randy, Agree. Mark.

Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

> Actually Bill... I have two (conflicting) perspectives as I said but to > clarify: > > 1) A customer asked 'Can you make sure we have the IP for the network > design' which I was wondering if it is even technically possible I think they mean "we don't want you coming back and trying to

Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

On 02/12/15 07:42, Randy Bush wrote: >> I'm keen to see how you might think that fits in to the context? >>> creative commons > > i prefer to be paid for being able to think, not for what i once > thought. creative commons suits my needs for network designs. And to compound the (perceived) probl

Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

On 12/Feb/15 14:36, Skeeve Stevens wrote: > > What I am really looking for is some working, experience, precedence that > backs up the view that IP on network design is actually not possible... > which is my gut feeling. I've designed some pretty unique and profitable features using tech. (not ne

Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

> I'm keen to see how you might think that fits in to the context? >> creative commons i prefer to be paid for being able to think, not for what i once thought. creative commons suits my needs for network designs. randy --- Q: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. A: Why is top p

Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

Hey Randy, I'm keen to see how you might think that fits in to the context? ...Skeeve *Skeeve Stevens - Founder & Chief Network Architect* eintellego Networks Pty Ltd Email: ske...@eintellegonetworks.com ; Web: eintellegonetworks.com Phone: 1300 239 038 ; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; Skype: skeev

Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

Actually Bill... I have two (conflicting) perspectives as I said but to clarify: 1) A customer asked 'Can you make sure we have the IP for the network design' which I was wondering if it is even technically possible 2) If I design some amazing solutions... am I able to claim IP. My gut f

Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

creative commons

Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design

I include a "no intellectual property ownership is transferred between the Parties" clause in just about everything we do. Doesn't demand that any of the questions you raise be answered, but shuts the door to problems pretty firmly. -Bill > On Feb 12, 2015, at 17:20, Sk

Intellectual Property in Network Design

Hi all, I have two perspectives I am trying to address with regard to network design and intellectual property. 1) The business who does the design - what are their rights? 2) The customer who asked for the rights from a consultant My personal thoughts are conflicting: - You create networks wi