On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 10:21 PM Saku Ytti wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Jun 2020 at 08:12, William Herrin wrote:
> > That's what spanning tree and its compatriots are for. Otherwise,
> > ordinary broadcast traffic (like those arp packets) would travel in a
> > loop, flooding the network and it would just
On Tue, 23 Jun 2020 at 09:32, Sabri Berisha wrote:
> Aaah yes, fair point! Thanks $deity for default timers that make no sense.
Add low-traffic connection and default 1024s maxPoll of NTP and this
duplication is guaranteed to happen for 97.9% of packets.
--
++ytti
- On Jun 22, 2020, at 11:21 PM, Saku Ytti s...@ytti.fi wrote:
Hi Saku,
> On Tue, 23 Jun 2020 at 09:15, Sabri Berisha wrote:
>
>> Yeah, except that unless you use static ARP entries, I can't come up
>> with a plausible scenario in which this would happen for NTP. Assuming
>> we're talking ab
On Tue, 23 Jun 2020 at 09:15, Sabri Berisha wrote:
> Yeah, except that unless you use static ARP entries, I can't come up
> with a plausible scenario in which this would happen for NTP. Assuming
> we're talking about a non-local NTP server, S3 will not send an NTP
> packet without first sending a
- On Jun 22, 2020, at 10:21 PM, Saku Ytti s...@ytti.fi wrote:
Hi,
> Metro: S1-S2-S3-S1
> PE1: S1
> PE2: S2
> Customer: S3
> STP blocking: ANY
>
> S3 sends frame, it is unknown unicast flooded, S1+S2 both get it
> (regardless of which metro port blocks), which will send it via PE to
> Interne
On 23/Jun/20 07:52, Saku Ytti wrote:
>
> S1-S2-S3-S1 is operator L2 metro-ring, which connects customers and
> 2xPE routers. It VLAN backhauls customers to PE.
Okay.
In 2014, we hit a similar issue, although not in a ring.
Our previous architecture was to interconnect edge routers via
downst
On Tue, 23 Jun 2020 at 08:36, Mark Tinka wrote:
> To be clear, is the customer's device S3, or is S3 the ISP's device that
> terminates the customer's service?
S1-S2-S3-S1 is operator L2 metro-ring, which connects customers and
2xPE routers. It VLAN backhauls customers to PE.
--
++ytti
On 23/Jun/20 07:32, Saku Ytti wrote:
>
> Ring of 3 switches, minimum possible topology to explain the issue for
> people not familiar with L2.
To be clear, is the customer's device S3, or is S3 the ISP's device that
terminates the customer's service?
Mark.
On Tue, 23 Jun 2020 at 08:29, Mark Tinka wrote:
> In the above, is S3 part of the Metro-E ring, or simply downstream of S1
> and S2?
Ring of 3 switches, minimum possible topology to explain the issue for
people not familiar with L2.
--
++ytti
On 23/Jun/20 07:21, Saku Ytti wrote:
> Metro: S1-S2-S3-S1
> PE1: S1
> PE2: S2
> Customer: S3
> STP blocking: ANY
>
> S3 sends frame, it is unknown unicast flooded, S1+S2 both get it
> (regardless of which metro port blocks), which will send it via PE to
> Internet.
>
> STP doesn't help, at all.
On Tue, 23 Jun 2020 at 08:12, William Herrin wrote:
Hey Bill,
> That's what spanning tree and its compatriots are for. Otherwise,
> ordinary broadcast traffic (like those arp packets) would travel in a
> loop, flooding the network and it would just about instantly collapse
> when you first turne
On 23/Jun/20 06:41, Saku Ytti wrote:
>
> I can't tell you how common it is, because that type of visibility is
> not easy to acquire, But I can explain at least one scenario when it
> occasionally happens.
>
> 1) Imagine a ring of L2 metro ethernet
> 2) Ring is connected to two PE routers, for
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 9:43 PM Saku Ytti wrote:
> I can't tell you how common it is, because that type of visibility is
> not easy to acquire, But I can explain at least one scenario when it
> occasionally happens.
>
> 1) Imagine a ring of L2 metro ethernet
> 2) Ring is connected to two PE router
Hey Hal,
> How often do packets magically get duplicated within the network so that the
> target receives 2 copies? That seems like something somebody at NANOG might
> have studied and given a talk on.
I can't tell you how common it is, because that type of visibility is
not easy to acquire, But
How often do packets magically get duplicated within the network so that the
target receives 2 copies? That seems like something somebody at NANOG might
have studied and given a talk on.
Any suggestions for other places to look?
Context is NTP. If a client gets an answer, should it keep the
Microwave is used for long haul wireless transmission for the ultra-latency
crowd. Free space laser has more bandwidth, but is sensitive to fog and at
least until the last few years much less range. I sell ULL routes to financial
players. A 10 meg microwave circuit CME/Secaucus Equinix ranges fr
Have you accounted for glass as opposed to vacuum? And the fact that fiber
optic networks can't be straight lines if their purpose is to aggregate traffic
along the way and they also need to follow some less-than-straight right of way.
Regards,
Roderick.
From:
>> The requirement from the E2E principle is that routers should be
>> dumb and hosts should be clever or the entire system do not.
>> scale reliably.
>
> And yet in the PTT world, it was the other way around. Clever switching
> and dumb telephone boxes.
how did that work out for the ptts? :)
On 6/22/20 12:59 AM, adamv0...@netconsultings.com wrote:
William Herrin
Howdy,
Why is latency between the east and west coasts so bad? Speed of light
accounts for about 15ms each direction for a 30ms round trip. Where does
the other 30ms come from and why haven't we gotten rid of it?
Wallstre
hi there,
I've started a few weeks ago hosting a youtube/twitch/twitter live video
show (simultaneous stream) hosting key people who are involved in the
exec/operations/engineering of internet infrastructure companies either as
consumer or service providers.
my idea is to create a platform where
On 22/Jun/20 16:30, adamv0...@netconsultings.com wrote:
> Not quite,
> The routing information is flooded by default, but the receivers will cherry
> pick what they need and drop the rest.
> And even if the default flooding of all and dropping most is a concern -it
> can be addressed where onl
On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 12:56 PM Alejandro Acosta <
alejandroacostaal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Taking advantage of this thread may I ask something?. I have heard of
> "wireless fiber optic", something like an antenna with a laser pointing
> from one building to the other, having said th
> Masataka Ohta
> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 1:49 PM
>
> Robert Raszuk wrote:
>
> > Moreover if you have 1000 PEs and those three sites are attached only
> > to 6 of them - only those 6 PEs will need to learn those routes (Hint:
> > RTC -
> > RFC4684)
>
> If you have 1000 PEs, you should be ser
Masataka Ohta wrote on 22/06/2020 13:49:
But, it should be noted that a single class B routing table entry
"a single class B routing table entry"? Did 1993 just call and ask for
its addressing back? :-)
But, it should be noted that a single class B routing table entry
often serves for an
On 22/Jun/20 15:17, Masataka Ohta wrote:
>
>
> The point of Yakov on day one was that, flow driven approach of
> Ipsilon does not scale and is unacceptable.
>
> Though I agree with Yakov here, we must also eliminate all the
> flow driven approaches by MPLS or whatever.
I still don't see them
On 22/Jun/20 15:08, Masataka Ohta wrote:
>
> The requirement from the E2E principle is that routers should be
> dumb and hosts should be clever or the entire system do not.
> scale reliably.
And yet in the PTT world, it was the other way around. Clever switching
and dumb telephone boxes. How
> From: Masataka Ohta
> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 2:17 PM
>
> adamv0...@netconsultings.com wrote:
>
> > But MPLS can be made flow driven (it can be made whatever the policy
> > dictates), for instance DSCP driven.
>
> The point of Yakov on day one was that, flow driven approach of Ipsilon
doe
On 22/Jun/20 14:49, Masataka Ohta wrote:
>
> But, it should be noted that a single class B...
CIDR - let's not teach the kids old news :-).
> If you have 1000 PEs, you should be serving for somewhere around 1000
> customers.
It's not linear.
We probably have 1 edge router serving severa
adamv0...@netconsultings.com wrote:
But MPLS can be made flow driven (it can be made whatever the policy
dictates), for instance DSCP driven…
The point of Yakov on day one was that, flow driven approach of
Ipsilon does not scale and is unacceptable.
Though I agree with Yakov here, we must als
Hi Baldur,
>From memory mx204 FIB is 10M (v4/v6) and RIB 30M for each v4 and v6.
And remember the FIB is hierarchical -so it’s the next-hops per prefix you are
referring to with BGP FRR. And also going from memory of past scaling testing,
if pfx1+NH1 == x, then Pfx1+NH1+NH2 !== 2x, where x
Mark Tinka wrote:
So, with hierarchical routing, routing protocols can
carry only rough information around destinations, from
which, source side can not construct detailed (often
purposelessly nested) labels required for MPLS.
But hosts often point default to a clever router.
The requirement
Robert Raszuk wrote:
Neither link wise nor host wise information is required to accomplish say
L3VPN services. Imagine you have three sites which would like to
interconnect each with 1000s of users.
For a single customer of an ISP with 1000s of end users. OK.
But, it should be noted that a si
> William Herrin
>
> Howdy,
>
> Why is latency between the east and west coasts so bad? Speed of light
> accounts for about 15ms each direction for a 30ms round trip. Where does
> the other 30ms come from and why haven't we gotten rid of it?
>
Wallstreet did :)
https://www.wired.com/2012/08/ff_
> From: NANOG On Behalf Of Masataka Ohta
> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2020 5:01 PM
>
> Robert Raszuk wrote:
>
> > So I think Ohta-san's point is about scalability services not flat
> > underlay RIB and FIB sizes. Many years ago we had requests to support
> > 5M L3VPN routes while underlay was just 5
> Masataka Ohta
> Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2020 1:37 PM
>
> > Whether you do it manually or use a label distribution protocol, FEC's
> > are pre-computed ahead of time.
> >
> > What am I missing?
>
> If all the link-wise (or, worse, host-wise) information of possible
destinations
> is distributed i
But MPLS can be made flow driven (it can be made whatever the policy dictates),
for instance DSCP driven…
adam
From: NANOG On Behalf Of
Robert Raszuk
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2020 4:13 PM
To: Masataka Ohta
Cc: North American Network Operators' Group
Subject: Re: why am i in this handba
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