>> They don't discriminate, anyone can be a customer
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4GfoSZ_sDc
>
> Holy crap that girl was painful to listen to!
missed the girl. all i saw was prince and a fox 'news' woman. it was
pretty much like reading nanog.
randy
On Thursday, July 28, 2016, Dovid Bender wrote:
> The issue is that cloudfare in a way is generating their own market. If
> the ddos sites weren't protected by cloudfare they would eat each other
> alive. It's in their interest that their sites stay up so there is a need
> for their service. When
The issue is that cloudfare in a way is generating their own market. If the
ddos sites weren't protected by cloudfare they would eat each other alive. It's
in their interest that their sites stay up so there is a need for their
service. When GoDaddy hosts a bad site they aren't causing customer
--- tknch...@gmail.com wrote:
They don't discriminate, anyone can be a customer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4GfoSZ_sDc
great quote from the reporter "why do you need a
court order to do the right thing?"
--
Holy crap that girl was painful to liste
On Thursday, July 28, 2016, Donn Lasher via NANOG wrote:
> On 7/28/16, 10:17 AM, "NANOG on behalf of J. Oquendo" <
> nanog-boun...@nanog.org on behalf of joque...@e-fensive.net
> > wrote:
>
>
> >While many are chanting: #NetworkLivesMatter, I have yet
> >to see, read, or hear about any network p
> On Jul 28, 2016, at 7:30 PM, Donn Lasher via NANOG wrote:
>
> On 7/28/16, 10:17 AM, "NANOG on behalf of J. Oquendo"
> wrote:
>
>
>> While many are chanting: #NetworkLivesMatter, I have yet
>> to see, read, or hear about any network provider being
>> the first to set precedence by either de
> On Jul 28, 2016, at 7:30 PM, Donn Lasher via NANOG wrote:
>
> On 7/28/16, 10:17 AM, "NANOG on behalf of J. Oquendo"
> wrote:
>
>
>> While many are chanting: #NetworkLivesMatter, I have yet
>> to see, read, or hear about any network provider being
>> the first to set precedence by either de
On 7/28/16, 10:17 AM, "NANOG on behalf of J. Oquendo" wrote:
>While many are chanting: #NetworkLivesMatter, I have yet
>to see, read, or hear about any network provider being
>the first to set precedence by either de-peering, or
>blocking traffic from Cloudflare. There is a lot of
>keyboard post
As you may know, Verisign, in its role as the Root Zone Maintainer
is also the operator of the root zone Zone Signing Key (ZSK). Later
this year, we will increase the size of the ZSK from 1024-bits to
2048-bits.
The root zone ZSK is normally rolled every calendar quarter, as per
our “DNSSEC Pract
The difference between everyone posting here and for example the
intellectual property folks like RIAA is the latter has organization
and money.
As I said earlier one thing that organization and money has done is
defined, with some precision, where the boundaries are. It's a moving
target but tha
On 7/28/16 12:01, McDonald Richards wrote:
Feel free to demonstrate to us all how you're leading by example.
Until then, as a consumer of "the Internet", I'd like my any-to-any access
to remain that way.
Again, and that's why these problems are such as they are.
~Seth
>> Actually, as someone pointed out, it might well be conspiracy - which
>> is criminal.
> looking forward to the court case, if it's really important it'll
> happen shortly, right?
we don't need no flippin' court. we can lynch 'em right here.
On Thu, 28 Jul 2016, Stephen Satchell wrote:
> Let's supposed someone did indeed de-peer or otherwise block Cloudflare
> from their entire network.
>
> Which of y'all would be the first to say to that network operator, "Hope
> you enjoy your intranet"?
Really? Again more boogeyman nonsense. Th
Feel free to demonstrate to us all how you're leading by example.
Until then, as a consumer of "the Internet", I'd like my any-to-any access
to remain that way.
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
> On 7/28/16 11:24, McDonald Richards wrote:
>
>> Be sure to let us all know
On 7/28/16 11:24, McDonald Richards wrote:
Be sure to let us all know how this works out for your business.
And that's why these problems are such as they are.
~Seth
On 07/28/2016 10:17 AM, J. Oquendo wrote:
While many are chanting: #NetworkLivesMatter, I have yet
to see, read, or hear about any network provider being
the first to set precedence by either de-peering, or
blocking traffic from Cloudflare. There is a lot of
keyboard posturing: "I am mad and I am
On Thu, 28 Jul 2016, McDonald Richards wrote:
> Be sure to let us all know how this works out for your business.
>
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 10:35 AM, J. Oquendo wrote:
>
As stated... "Networkers don't give a rats ass about
ethics/morals. Solely a fistful of dollars"
In the interim, this conv
Be sure to let us all know how this works out for your business.
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 10:35 AM, J. Oquendo wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jul 2016, Naslund, Steve wrote:
>
> > You obviously have a much shorter Internet memory than some of the
> engineers on here that have had a long history of killing o
On Thu, 28 Jul 2016, Naslund, Steve wrote:
> You obviously have a much shorter Internet memory than some of the engineers
> on here that have had a long history of killing off and blacklisting various
> spam and malware operations over the years. I think the one thing that has
> changed is tha
You obviously have a much shorter Internet memory than some of the engineers on
here that have had a long history of killing off and blacklisting various spam
and malware operations over the years. I think the one thing that has changed
is that the service providers are now large corporate enti
While many are chanting: #NetworkLivesMatter, I have yet
to see, read, or hear about any network provider being
the first to set precedence by either de-peering, or
blocking traffic from Cloudflare. There is a lot of
keyboard posturing: "I am mad and I am not going to take
it anymore" hooplah but
On 7/28/16 11:56 AM, Niels Bakker wrote:
* mfidel...@meetinghouse.net (Miles Fidelman) [Thu 28 Jul 2016, 17:42
CEST]:
[...]
Now if Cloudflare were to actively suggest that folks use vBooter to
test systems, as a way to boost sales for Cloudflare - that would
certainly be an interesting test c
The best analogy to real world would be to look at CloudFare as an arms dealer.
They don't start the war but they sure enable it. The governments probably
don't care who you sell arms to until their goat gets gored and then they are
coming for you. Believe me they have more than enough laws
No, as I said earlier, I am of the opinion that these networks get swept up
once they go too big and hit something that law enforcement really cares about
(read: embarrassed by). At that point they get everyone. You and I and our
customers can't do much of anything until that point unless the
Are you of the opinion that the victim of a DDoS attack who is not a
multi-billion-dollar corporation would actually receive help from the FBI as a
result of a DDoS attack?
In the past, I have been told that the dollar-threshold for the FBI to even
consider looking at a case was at least $2M in
It is not beyond the realm of law enforcement to run down the entire chain of
events all the way back to the “whodunit” and “howdunit”. It is pretty amazing
what they can figure out when they put their minds to it and don’t
underestimate what they can learn by getting someone in the hot seat un
They don't discriminate, anyone can be a customer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4GfoSZ_sDc
great quote from the reporter "why do you need a court order to do the
right thing?"
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Phil Rosenthal wrote:
> Keep in mind also, the victims of these DDoS attacks do no
Keep in mind also, the victims of these DDoS attacks do not know which "booter"
service was paid to attack them. The packets do not have "Stress test provided
by vBooter" in them. The attack packets do not come from the booter's or
Cloudflare's IP addresses, they come from secondary victims -- c
Miles is right. Their thinly veiled "stress tester" thing is not going to be
much of a defense. They must not have very good legal counsel. Here is the
issue. Stress testing is perfectly legal as long as I am:
a) Stress testing my own stuff
b) Stress testing your stuff WITH Y
There are not international cyber crime laws because there is no international
law enforcement agency with the reach to enforce them and because most
countries like things like sovereignty. There is also an inherent conflict
between private citizen hacking and state sponsored hacking and the li
* mfidel...@meetinghouse.net (Miles Fidelman) [Thu 28 Jul 2016, 17:42 CEST]:
[...]
Now if Cloudflare were to actively suggest that folks use vBooter to
test systems, as a way to boost sales for Cloudflare - that would
certainly be an interesting test case for RICO
CloudFlare is doing nothing o
On 7/28/16 11:04 AM, Paras Jha wrote:
Nothing is going to happen. Cloudflare will continue to turn a blind eye
towards abusive customers, and even downright allow customers to HTTP scan
from their network without batting an eyelash. The mere act of scanning
isn't illegal, but it shows the kind o
Sigh, another long thread that goes nowhere in the end and simply dies a
dull dead. So let's add my 2ct donation into it.
First of all, CF like any other carrier/provider/hoster/whatever only
cares about the bucks, nothing else, you all do to, so that should be
clear enough. Them actually booting
On Wednesday 27 July 2016 07:58:49 Paras Jha wrote:
> Hi Justin,
>
> I have submitted abuse reports in the past, maybe from 2014 - 2015, but I
> gave up after I consistently did not even get replies and saw no action
> being taken. It is the same behavior with other providers who host malware
> kn
On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 03:09:51PM +, Steve Mikulasik wrote:
> I am sure a lawyer would see it very differently, [...]
For what it's worth I agree, but I'm not an attorney (and neither
are most of us), so I'll write from the perspective of an operator.
The healthy functioning of the Internet
Nothing is going to happen. Cloudflare will continue to turn a blind eye
towards abusive customers, and even downright allow customers to HTTP scan
from their network without batting an eyelash. The mere act of scanning
isn't illegal, but it shows the kind of mindset that they have.
I'm sorry, but this entire discussion is predicated on half-truths and
nonsense spewing out of the CF team. It's a shame too, as they're
usually great community minded folks who are well respected around
here.
No matter how you define the CloudFlare service, that they can claim
ignorance due to "
If you believe someone is doing something illegal than you should report
it to law enforcement. Their job is to investigate and bring charges if
they feel they are warranted. You do not have to be from the USA to
report a crime in the USA.
Here is a list with contact info for the FBI's field
A DDoS attack is illegal. In the United States it is considered as theft of
service. The legal construct used is that the DDoS attack is a theft of CPU
cycles, compute resources, and power by other than the rightful owner for its
intended purposes.
Steven Naslund
Chicago IL
-Original Mes
Well,
I do not think feeding the trolls is a good exercise for a
representative of any company that is taking this subject seriously.
Don't you think?
-
Alain Hebertaheb...@pubnix.net
PubNIX Inc.
50 boul. St-Charles
P.O. Box 26770 Be
@Baldur
"They just lost all respect from here. Would someone from USA please report
these guys to the feds? What they are doing is outright criminal."
I'm happy to put you in touch with an FBI agent if you have questions
or concerns you'd like to discuss.
Justin Paine
Head of Trust
On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 12:00:00 +0200, Baldur Norddahl said:
> DDoS attacks using stolen resources and fake identities is not legal
Are you making a blanket statement that covers all jurisdictions on
the planet?
For bonus points - is it more like "illegal as in murder", or "illegal
as in jaywalking
On 28 July 2016 at 11:30, wrote:
> In general, the conspiracy isn't criminal if the conspired act isn't
> criminal.
> If you're trying to make a criminal conspiracy out of non-criminal acts,
> your best bet is probably finding a new way to abuse the RICO statutes.
>
DDoS attacks using stolen res
On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 22:55:54 -0400, Miles Fidelman said:
> On 7/27/16 10:48 PM, Randy Bush wrote:
> >> They just lost all respect from here. Would someone from USA please
> >> report these guys to the feds? What they are doing is outright
> >> criminal.
> > hyperbole. it is not criminal. you just
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