> For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they
> will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message.
>
> And some messages say: you are forbidden to access this web site
> because your IP address appears form country black listed due to USA
> government policy.
>
> I would like
Owen,
> Correct, now, what portion of ICANN's budget is related to the NRO sector?
Read the ICANN budget. ICANN does not budget things that way.
You asked "explain how the numbers side of IANA pays for anything when the RIRs
stop funding it?"
Doug and I, who have a bit of knowledge on the subj
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 06:24:04AM +0200, Jens Link wrote:
> Owen DeLong writes:
> > The correct answer is "No, you don't have to configure rules, you just need
> > one rule supplied by default which denies anything that doesn't have a
> > corresponding outbound entry in the state table and it wor
Owen DeLong writes:
>> You know that, I know that and (hopefully) all people on this list know
>> that. But NAT == security was and still is sold by many people.
>>
> So is snake oil.
Ack, but people are still buying snake oil too.
>> After one of my talks about IPv6 the firewall admins of a
I thought that Randy Bush won it from Paul Vixie in a poker game.
Joe Hamelin, W7COM, Tulalip, WA, 360-474-7474
Saku Ytti writes:
> RFC4193 + NAT quite simply is what they know and are comfortable with.
NAT is *not simple*. NAT adds one more layer of complexity. When
using multiple NAT things get worse.
In most cases people don't want or need NAT they are just used to it and
old habits die hard.
Jens
Owen DeLong writes:
>> for NAT. Enterprises of non-trivial size will likely use RFC4193 (and I
>> fear we will notice PRNG returning 0 very often) and then NAT it to
>> provider provided public IP addresses.
>>
> Why on earth would you do that? Why not just put the provider-assigned
> addresses
I thought it was Kim Jong-il. At least that was what was on the
memo.
Bob-
-Original Message-
From: andrew.wallace [mailto:andrew.wall...@rocketmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 3:58 PM
To: tariq198...@hotmail.com
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Who controlls the In
-Original Message-
From: Robert West [mailto:robert.w...@just-micro.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:15 PM
To: 'andrew.wallace'
Subject: RE: Who controlls the Internet?
I thought it was Kim Jong-il. At least that was what was on the
memo.
Bob-
-Original Message-
-Original Message-
From: Robert West [mailto:robert.w...@just-micro.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:02 PM
To: 'Tarig Yassin'
Subject: RE: Who controlls the Internet?
To add...
This is a great reason to provide proxy servers or to use Tor. If enough
resources are thrown against
-Original Message-
From: Robert West [mailto:robert.w...@just-micro.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:56 PM
To: 'Tarig Yassin'
Subject: RE: Who controlls the Internet?
Each individual government seems to control the information the enters or
leaves their borders.Do a search for "I
I'm moving all operations to Sealand
Bob-
-Original Message-
From: Robert Bonomi [mailto:bon...@mail.r-bonomi.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:16 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Who controlls the Internet?
> From: Tarig Yassin
> To: nanog
> Subject: Who contr
> From: Tarig Yassin
> To: nanog
> Subject: Who controlls the Internet?
> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 20:24:27 +0300
>
>
> Deal all
>
> I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day.
>
> For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will
> get a *F
On Jul 25, 2010, at 11:54 AM, David Conrad wrote:
> On Jul 25, 2010, at 6:02 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
>> My point was that as a cost center, IANA depends on funding from other
>> sources. The RIRs are a major source of that funding.
>
> I guess it depends on your definition of "major". From sec
>> PS. ICANN has no responsibility or operational role denying access or
>> services.
>>
>> Regards
>
> except ICANN has presumed for itself an operational role.
> it has taken on root server operations for some years now
> and is trying to take over root zone editorial contro
Tarig,
Just going out on a limb here, but who says the sites in the US are blocking
instead of the country itself? Maybe the Sudan government is blocking
access to the sites for whatever reason.
Allen
-Original Message-
From: Joly MacFie [mailto:j...@punkcast.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 25
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 12:58:01PM -0700, andrew.wallace wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Tarig Yassin wrote:
> > I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet?
>
> The truth to your question is, anybody who wants to. Hackers, activists,
> governments, terrorists all
Hi Tarig
This is a bit like asking who controls friendship. Of course nobody does.
However if certain friends of yours are going to impose conditions on you,
you have to go along with it or find new friends.
One way round it is to use other friends as interlocutors, simply by using
proxy services
On Sun, 2010-07-25 at 16:19 +, Nathan Eisenberg wrote:
> > If an expert stood up in court and said "the chances that this
> > fingerprint is the defendant's are a million to one", and the
> > prosecutor then said "Aha! So you admit it's *possible*!" we would
> > rightly scorn the prosecutor for
> The local laws/regulations take precedence in each country and they must
> abide to what's been set. This however isnt a concern to many since not many
> countries impose such strict restrictions.
I thought most countries had trade and export restrictions of one sort or
another?
Best Regards,
On 25 July 2010 21:05, Tarig Yassin wrote:
>
> probabaly every web server in USA e.g. Google, Verisign and sourceforge.
>
>
> In this case you will most likely discover that these are blocked by the
service provider at your end and not by Google et al.
> What if a large orginization which has
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 01:21:46PM -0500, Jorge Amodio wrote:
>
> PS. ICANN has no responsibility or operational role denying access or
> services.
>
> Regards
except ICANN has presumed for itself an operational role.
it has taken on root server operations for some years now
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 08:24:27PM +0300, Tarig Yassin wrote:
>
> Deal all
>
>
>
> I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day.
>
>
> For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will
> get a *Forbidden Access Error* message.
>
> And
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Tarig Yassin wrote:
> I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet?
The truth to your question is, anybody who wants to. Hackers, activists,
governments, terrorists all have the ability to control it. But probably not
all
at the same time.
On Jul 25, 2010, at 8:05 PM, Tarig Yassin wrote:
> probabaly every web server in USA e.g. Google, Verisign and sourceforge.
ALL companies that operate in the US are bound by law to abide by restrictions
that are defined at http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/ and
elsewhere. Failure
On Jul 25, 2010, at 7:24 PM, Tarig Yassin wrote:
> Deal all
>
> I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day.
>
> For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will
> get a *Forbidden Access Error* message.
>
> And some messages say: you are
On 7/25/10 11:05 AM, Tarig Yassin wrote:
>
> probabaly every web server in USA e.g. Google, Verisign and sourceforge.
>
Hah, no.
~Seth
On Jul 25, 2010, at 6:02 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
> My point was that as a cost center, IANA depends on funding from other
> sources. The RIRs are a major source of that funding.
I guess it depends on your definition of "major". From section 5.1 of ICANN's
draft FY11 budget
(http://www.icann.or
The (more often than not) unofficial answer: using a custom platform
raises the entry barrier for cloning/abuse/etc. It's a bit hard to
run your appliance MIPS software on an off-the-shelf PC; but it (used)
to be possible to run PIX software on a PC (and in a VM too, IIRC.)
Cisco PIX: no, Cisc
> I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet?
The global abstract Internet ? nobody.
Your government/service provider and/or the government/service
provider of the destination you are trying to reach may
restrict/block/redirect/tweak/tamper/sniff/shape the free flow of
pack
probabaly every web server in USA e.g. Google, Verisign and sourceforge.
What if a large orginization which has an infrstructure in many countires, in
which regulations the will comply, in terms to ban other countries accessing to
thier Internet resources.
my regards,
--
Tarig Y. Adam
On Jul 25, 2010, at 13:24, Tarig Yassin wrote:
> I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day.
>
> For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will
> get a *Forbidden Access Error* message.
>
> And some messages say: you are forbidden to a
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 08:24:27PM +0300,
Tarig Yassin wrote
a message of 27 lines which said:
> For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site
> they will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message.
>
> And some messages say: you are forbidden to access this web site
> because
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010, Tarig Yassin wrote:
And why not the ICCAN take this reponsibity as an International
organization not USA government?
ICANN has no authority to tell sovereign nations how to run their IP
connectivity.
jms
From: tariq198...@hotmail.com
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Who c
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010, Tarig Yassin wrote:
I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day.
For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they
will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message.
And some messages say: you are forbidden to access this web s
In all honesty control over the Internet doesn't sound like the issue
here. The US Government regulates entities functioning with in it's
boarders. This would be no different if I being in the US were
restricted access to a site in any other country due to their
regulations.
And why not the ICCAN take this reponsibity as an International organization
not USA government?
From: tariq198...@hotmail.com
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Who controlls the Internet?
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 20:24:27 +0300
Deal all
I want to show you some obstacles that some countrie
Deal all
I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day.
For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will get
a *Forbidden Access Error* message.
And some messages say: you are forbidden to access this web site because your
IP address
On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Tarig Yassin wrote:
> I'm wondering why the software based router is not preferable in
> business even if they have high featured Processers, and high capcity of
> memory.
>
> What is the main deferent between Appliance router and Software based routers?
http://w
> They are all software based routers... It really shouldn't matter
> whether an Appliance Application (i.e. some routing program is running
> on a minimal runtime environment ) or a routing program is running as
> part of an OS or as an Application on an OS. It is all Software until
> it
> becomes
On 7/25/2010 9:07 AM, Nathan Eisenberg wrote:
>> I'm wondering why the software based router is not preferable in
>> business even if they have high featured Processers, and high capcity
>> of memory.
> It may be helpful before proceeding if you provide some examples of each, so
> we can understa
> If an expert stood up in court and said "the chances that this
> fingerprint is the defendant's are a million to one", and the
> prosecutor then said "Aha! So you admit it's *possible*!" we would
> rightly scorn the prosecutor for being an innumerate nincompoop. Yet
> here we are paying serious h
> I'm wondering why the software based router is not preferable in
> business even if they have high featured Processers, and high capcity
> of memory.
It may be helpful before proceeding if you provide some examples of each, so we
can understand your definition of a 'appliance' vs 'software rout
>>>
>> For bonus points, explain how the numbers side of IANA pays for anything
>> when the RIRs stop funding it?
>
> David already answered more eloquently than I could, so I'll simply add that
> what he said applied when I was there as well. The IANA is, and always has
> been a cost center.
On Jul 25, 2010, at 12:31 AM, Jack Bates wrote:
> Tarig Yassin wrote:
>> What is the main deferent between Appliance router and Software based
>> routers?
>
> I believe the main difference is the ability to handle features at line rate
> speeds. The more interfaces/speed + CoS/ACL, the harder
On Jul 24, 2010, at 11:40 PM, David Conrad wrote:
> On Jul 25, 2010, at 8:10 AM, Owen DeLong wrote:
>>> The logical candidate to operate option 1 was the IANA, and the RIRs were
>>> having none of that. (For bonus points, explain how the RIRs continue to
>>> exist if everyone can have all of th
On (2010-07-25 10:28 -0400), valdis.kletni...@vt.edu and Mark Smith wrote
similarly:
> > http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1-((2^40)!)%2F((2^40)^100+((2^40)-100)!)+
> >
> > So if there are million assigned ULA's there is 36.5% chance of collision,
> > if
> > formula is right.
>
> Bzz
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 10:20:43 +0300, Tarig Yassin said:
> I'm wondering why the software based router is not preferable in business
Sorry, but you've gone wrong already. You can't ask "why something is true"
until you first establish that the something is in fact true. There are
*plenty* of busine
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 11:40:19 +0300, Saku Ytti said:
> On (2010-07-25 17:32 +1000), Karl Auer wrote:
>
>
> > The risk of a ULA prefix conflict is for *all practical purposes* zero.
>
> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1-((2^40)!)%2F((2^40)^100+((2^40)-100)!)+
>
> It wouldn't puke n
On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 22:35:07 PDT, Doug Barton said:
> having none of that. (For bonus points, explain how the RIRs continue to
> exist if everyone can have all of the guaranteed-globally-unique IPv6
> space they wanted for free.)
The same way that companies are making money selling people credi
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 11:40:19 +0300
Saku Ytti wrote:
> On (2010-07-25 17:32 +1000), Karl Auer wrote:
>
>
> > The risk of a ULA prefix conflict is for *all practical purposes* zero.
>
> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1-((2^40)!)%2F((2^40)^100+((2^40)-100)!)+
>
> It wouldn't puke
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 09:01:33 +0200
David Conrad wrote:
> On Jul 25, 2010, at 8:42 AM, Jack Bates wrote:
>
> > Doug Barton wrote:
> >> having none of that. (For bonus points, explain how the RIRs continue to
> >> exist if everyone can have all of the guaranteed-globally-unique IPv6
> >> space t
On (2010-07-25 17:32 +1000), Karl Auer wrote:
> The risk of a ULA prefix conflict is for *all practical purposes* zero.
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1-((2^40)!)%2F((2^40)^100+((2^40)-100)!)+
It wouldn't puke nice graph with 'n', it did try, but never finished.
So if there are
The official answer: commodity hardware doesn't handle all the features needed
at "line rate".
The (more often than not) unofficial answer: using a custom platform
raises the entry barrier for cloning/abuse/etc. It's a bit hard to
run your appliance MIPS software on an off-the-shelf PC; but it (us
On Sun, 2010-07-25 at 01:42 -0500, Jack Bates wrote:
> This is my concern. A business would rather be assured uniqueness over
> gambling, no matter what the odds. Given no additional services are
> needed, the administration cost is the same as handing out snmp
> enterprise oids. The fact that t
Tarig Yassin wrote:
What is the main deferent between Appliance router and Software based routers?
I believe the main difference is the ability to handle features at line
rate speeds. The more interfaces/speed + CoS/ACL, the harder it is for a
software based router to keep up.
Jack
On Sat, 24 Jul 2010, Owen DeLong wrote:
On Jul 24, 2010, at 10:35 PM, Doug Barton wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jul 2010, Brandon Butterworth wrote:
Eventually ARIN (or someone else will do it for them) may create a
site
...
Did you mean something like this maybe ?:
http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ul
Dear all
Greetings
I'm wondering why the software based router is not preferable in business even
if they have high featured Processers, and high capcity of memory.
What is the main deferent between Appliance router and Software based routers?
thank you all in adavance.
--
Tari
> From: andrew.wallace
> Continue to call me a troll in public and I'll be seeking legal
> advice.
andrew wallace, i think you are a troll who needs legal advice.
probably could also use some other care.
randy
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010, Jack Bates wrote:
Doug Barton wrote:
having none of that. (For bonus points, explain how the RIRs continue to
exist if everyone can have all of the guaranteed-globally-unique IPv6 space
they wanted for free.)
whois. what did I win? IANA can handle very basic assignments,
> whois. what did I win? IANA can handle very basic assignments, but
> hasn't the staff for large support or extra services (whois, POC
> management/validity, routing registry).
routing registry not necessarily needed from address registry.
and i am sure even the icann/iana could do the combine
On Jul 25, 2010, at 8:56 AM, Jack Bates wrote:
> David Conrad wrote:
>> On Jul 24, 2010, at 7:52 PM, Brandon Butterworth wrote:
>>> Indeed, best not listen to vendors
>> As it is best not to listen to doctors that tell you if you continue chain
>> smoking or eating 5000 calories a day, you'll like
On Jul 25, 2010, at 8:42 AM, Jack Bates wrote:
> Doug Barton wrote:
>> having none of that. (For bonus points, explain how the RIRs continue to
>> exist if everyone can have all of the guaranteed-globally-unique IPv6 space
>> they wanted for free.)
> whois.
http://whois.iana.org
> what did I w
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