Re: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

>An interesting line from page 10 of the article: > >"Diversity is not needed in the deep ocean, but land crossings are >viewed as considerably more risky." > >This philosophy should probably be rethought somewhat, as we may have >discovered this past week. All the recent cuts were littoral, n

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

On Sat, 2 Feb 2008, Roland Dobbins wrote: There are always corner-cases like the Tamil Tiger incident, and people don't always act rationally even in the context of their own perceived (as opposed to actual) self-interest, but I just don't see any terrorist groups nor any governments involved

RE: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

ing respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.'' Albert Einstein. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Robert Bonomi Sent: Sat 2/2/2008 7:20 PM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable

Re: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 14:21:00 -0800 > From: "Scott Francis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt > undersea cable disruption > > > On Feb 1, 2008 6:37 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian &l

Re: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

$quoted_author = "Scott Francis" ; > > maybe there's a lot more overlap in shipping lanes and cable runs than > I thought ... In confined waters like the Suez, Red Sea et. al. there is a lot of overlap. Which makes three cables cuts in that area during bad weather not such a stretch of the imagi

RE: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

Really? What cable is that?! -Original Message- From: Rubens Kuhl Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 02 February 2008 11:33 To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption > "NEW YORK (AP) -- The lines that

Re: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

And AFAIK not all kilometers of cables lie on the ocean floor; if the ocean has high depth on a given part of the cable route, the cable simply floats on the water on that run. It's just a matter of having enough pressure to lift it up. and for the difficult parts, they pump helium in and get

Re: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

> "NEW YORK (AP) -- The lines that tie the globe together by carrying > phone calls and Internet traffic are just two-thirds of an inch thick > where they lie on the ocean floor." And AFAIK not all kilometers of cables lie on the ocean floor; if the ocean has high depth on a given part of the cab

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

On Fri, Feb 01, 2008 at 10:56:26PM +, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: > On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 22:42:02 - > "Rod Beck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Well, when you have all these cables running through narrow straits > > or converging to the same stretch of beach, it does not strike me as > > at al

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 - -- Steven M. Bellovin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >I hope you're right. As I noted, by profession I'm paranoid. I've >even contemplated the uses of deliberate cable cuts; see >http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb/papers/reroute.pdf for some thoughts >f

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

George William Herbert wrote: And, significantly, AQ would benefit from a telecommunications (and other things) disconnect from the West to the Middle East, in both tactical and strategic senses. Funny, I was thinking the same thing about the Pentagon...

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

On Feb 2, 2008, at 8:56 AM, George William Herbert wrote: However, despite the "attractive target" angle of what got busted, and the proximity of the breaks to Islamic Terrorist problem spots, I don't see a statistical or evidentiary case made that these were anything but the usual occasional

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

>Actually, last year, Scotland Yard claimed Al Qaeda planned on >blowing up one of the Telehouse facilities in the UK And, significantly, AQ would benefit from a telecommunications (and other things) disconnect from the West to the Middle East, in both tactical and strategic senses. However, d

Re: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

PROTECTED]>, nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 07:09:50 +0530 On Feb 2, 2008 4:07 AM, Steven M. Bellovin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yah. I'm a security guy, and hence suspicious b

Re: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

On Feb 2, 2008 4:07 AM, Steven M. Bellovin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yah. I'm a security guy, and hence suspicious by nature -- our slogan > is "Paranoia is our Profession" -- and I'm getting very concerned. The > old saying comes to mind: "once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, > but th

Re: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

On Fri, 1 Feb 2008, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: Yah. I'm a security guy, and hence suspicious by nature -- our slogan is "Paranoia is our Profession" -- and I'm getting very concerned. The old saying comes to mind: "once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, but the third time is enemy action".

Re: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

More productively, there are real concerns with the cable routing around India and Pakistan. Connections across Egypt have geographical constraints that are probably more significant than the political ones, but having most of the connectivity into western India going into Mumbai and not Cochin o

Re: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

On Feb 1, 2008 2:37 PM, Steven M. Bellovin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > (either that, or the backhoe operators' union has decided there's > > better money to be made on water than on land.) Guys named Bubba can get fishing licenses just as easily as backhoe drivers' licenses. One of my customer

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

Hi Michael: On Feb 1, 2008 6:44 PM, Michael Painter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Here's at least one: > > http://www.ofcc.com/procedures.htm Yes, this is the idea. My experience is that fisherman coops, similar to this one for network operators, are contacted during the desk top study "DTS"

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

RE: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption - Original Message - From: Rod Beck Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 12:42 PM Subject: RE: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption Well, when you have all these cables running through narrow straits or converging to the same stretch of

RE: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

RodBeck said: >Telecommunication facilities have rarely been targets of terrorism. There is only one known case - the Tamil Tigers destroyed a central office in Sri Lanka some years back. My guess is that terrorists want to kill people, not destroy optical muxes, >Class 5 switches, and the like.

RE: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

Telecommunication facilities have rarely been targets of terrorism. There is only one known case - the Tamil Tigers destroyed a central office in Sri Lanka some years back. My guess is that terrorists want to kill people, not destroy optical muxes, Class 5 switches, and the like. And the under

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 23:07:16 - "Rod Beck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Steve, > > TransAtlantic cables average three repairs a year. That's the > industry average. So given 7 high capacity cable systems, that's 21 > repairs a year. > > Now, not all damaged cables go out of service. In f

RE: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

Hi Steve, TransAtlantic cables average three repairs a year. That's the industry average. So given 7 high capacity cable systems, that's 21 repairs a year. Now, not all damaged cables go out of service. In fact, most stay in service until the repair begins. But the public rarely hears about

RE: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

Martin Hannigan wrote: > On Feb 1, 2008 2:25 PM, Ahmed Maged (amaged) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >> >> "Does look normal to me" is far from a global conspiracy theory. >> >> >> Thank you for the translation but I think you got it wrong. >> > > > I agree, there should be a sanity chec

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 22:42:02 - "Rod Beck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well, when you have all these cables running through narrow straits > or converging to the same stretch of beach, it does not strike me as > at all extraordinary. > But they aren't near each other. http://www.nytimes.com

RE: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

ubject: Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption On Feb 1, 2008 2:25 PM, Ahmed Maged (amaged) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > "Does look normal to me" is far from a global conspiracy theory. > > > Thank you for the translation but I think you got it wro

Re: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

On Feb 1, 2008 2:35 PM, Rod Beck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Not at all, there have been cables in the water since 1858 (first > TransAtlantic cable - telegraph). Right now there are 80 major cables out > there. > > Give yourself 170 years of undersea cables and calculate the odds. > > :)

RE: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

Not at all, there have been cables in the water since 1858 (first TransAtlantic cable - telegraph). Right now there are 80 major cables out there. Give yourself 170 years of undersea cables and calculate the odds. :) Roderick S. Beck Director of European Sales Hibernia Atlantic 1, Passage du

Re: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 14:21:00 -0800 "Scott Francis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Feb 1, 2008 6:37 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/third-undersea-cable-reportedly-cut/story.aspx?guid={1AAB2A79-E983-4E0E-BC39-68A120DC16D9} >

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

On Feb 1, 2008 2:25 PM, Ahmed Maged (amaged) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > "Does look normal to me" is far from a global conspiracy theory. > > > Thank you for the translation but I think you got it wrong. > I agree, there should be a sanity check as I understand that they are within close

Re: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

On Feb 1, 2008 6:37 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/third-undersea-cable-reportedly-cut/story.aspx?guid={1AAB2A79-E983-4E0E-BC39-68A120DC16D9} > > "We had another cut today between Dubai and Muscat three hours back. > The cable was a

Re: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

Dorn Hetzel wrote: perhaps my favorite magazine article of all time. . the original came with pictures . i tried the wayback machine, but could not find a version with them. :( i guess i should wget the great ones with pics before they

Re: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

perhaps my favorite magazine article of all time. On Feb 1, 2008 1:13 PM, Randy Bush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Weight is a bigger issue than most people realize. > > perhaps folk would benefit from [re]reading Neal Stephenson's wonderful > classic bit of gonzo journalism in Wired, >

RE: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

6:05 PM To: Steven M. Bellovin; Martin Hannigan Cc: Rod Beck; Hank Nussbacher; Sean Donelan; nanog@merit.edu Subject: RE: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption Doesn't look normal to me that both cables were cut 'accidently' -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ma

Re: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

Weight is a bigger issue than most people realize. perhaps folk would benefit from [re]reading Neal Stephenson's wonderful classic bit of gonzo journalism in Wired, . randy

RE: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Martin Hannigan Sent: Fri 2/1/2008 5:01 PM To: Steven M. Bellovin Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption On Feb 1, 2008 11:43 AM, Steven M. Bellovin

Re: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

The Submarine Cable Improvement Group http://www.scig.net/ has plenty of details about trends in submarine cable damage and improvements in submarine cable protection.

Re: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

On Feb 1, 2008 11:43 AM, Steven M. Bellovin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There's an interesting article at > http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/technology/AP-Internet-Outages-Cables.html > on cable chokepoints. > "NEW YORK (AP) -- The lines that tie the globe together by carrying phone calls and In

Re: Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

There's an interesting article at http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/technology/AP-Internet-Outages-Cables.html on cable chokepoints.

Another cablecut - sri lanka to suez Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/third-undersea-cable-reportedly-cut/story.aspx?guid={1AAB2A79-E983-4E0E-BC39-68A120DC16D9} "We had another cut today between Dubai and Muscat three hours back. The cable was about 80G capacity, it had telephone, Internet data, everything," one Flag official,

RE: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

Hi Martin, Look more closely. I agree the red dots are repeaters. The yellow dots are repairs. And the yellow dots are bunched, which what you would expect for repairs. Not evenly spaced. Roderick S. Beck Director of European Sales Hibernia Atlantic 1, Passage du Chantier, 75012 Paris http://

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:20:07 - "Rod Beck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Cables are mostly damaged by fishing in coastal areas (continental > shelf) or by deep undersea currents that erode the polyurethane > jacket that protects them. So it is crucial that the cable be buried > at least one met

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

On Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 11:35:03AM -0500, Martin Hannigan wrote: > The distances are consistent with repeaters/op amps. And the chart > legend notates the same. I think you need to zoom right in and look for yellow dots, rather than red dots. Simon -- Simon Lockhart | * Sun Server Colocation * A

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

Today's NY Times reports that the problem was caused by two near-simultaneous cable failures: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/31/business/worldbusiness/31cable.html

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

On Jan 31, 2008 11:20 AM, Rod Beck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > http://www.kisca.org.uk/Web_SWApproaches.pdf > > And if you enlarge the map, you can see little dots on the lines > representing the cables that denote repairs. > > Lots and lots of repairs. Treacherous waters. > > The dista

RE: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

--Original Message- From: Rod Beck Sent: Thu 1/31/2008 1:05 PM To: Martin Hannigan; Hank Nussbacher Cc: Sean Donelan; nanog@merit.edu Subject: RE: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption http://www.kisca.org.uk/Web_SWApproaches.pdf -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf

RE: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

Cables are mostly damaged by fishing in coastal areas (continental shelf) or by deep undersea currents that erode the polyurethane jacket that protects them. So it is crucial that the cable be buried at least one meter and preferably two meters in coastal waters. The big fishing boats scrape sea

RE: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

http://www.kisca.org.uk/Web_SWApproaches.pdf -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Martin Hannigan Sent: Thu 1/31/2008 12:48 PM To: Hank Nussbacher Cc: Sean Donelan; nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption On Jan 31, 2008 4:30 AM, Hank

RE: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

lan; nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 9:30 AM, Hank Nussbacher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think more interesting is the landing stations where numerous cables > intersect. They may be diverse in the water, but they cl

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

On Jan 31, 2008 4:30 AM, Hank Nussbacher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >\ > > I think more interesting is the landing stations where numerous cables > intersect. They may be diverse in the water, but they cluster around each > other when they hit the landing stations. > > -Hank They aren't that

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 9:30 AM, Hank Nussbacher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think more interesting is the landing stations where numerous cables > intersect. They may be diverse in the water, but they cluster around each > other when they hit the landing stations. Exactly; which have hist

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

At 04:13 AM 31-01-08 -0500, Sean Donelan wrote: What makes this incident more interesting, as I indicated if its not one cable its another cable, was the double international cable cuts. Likewise, what made Tawain 2006 interesting wasn't an earthquake affected a cable, but there were multiple

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008, Martin Hannigan wrote: From what I read about this cut, the way it happened seemed to have figurative odds of 1:1,000,000. It looks like "authorities" moved the anchorage area for some undefined reason. Cables are documented on marine charts and, at least theoretically unde

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 02:41:22AM +, Todd Underwood wrote: > On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 01:56:42AM +, Paul Ferguson wrote: > > For what its worth, Todd Underwood has a very good overview of the > > countries affected by this outage over on the Renesys Blog here: > > > > http://www.renesys.c

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

On Jan 31, 2008 2:08 AM, Paul Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > - -- "Martin Hannigan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >In the Med/IO cable case, a ship dropped an anchor on the cable, > >something that is 1:1,000,000 shot, but happens. [...]

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 - -- "Martin Hannigan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >In the Med/IO cable case, a ship dropped an anchor on the cable, >something that is 1:1,000,000 shot, but happens. [...] Isn't that exactly what happened with the Pakistan fiber in 2005 with SEAMEWE

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

On Jan 30, 2008 9:41 PM, Todd Underwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 01:56:42AM +, Paul Ferguson wrote: > > > > For what its worth, Todd Underwood has a very good overview of the > > countries affected by this outage over on the Renesys Blog here: > > > > http://w

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 01:56:42AM +, Paul Ferguson wrote: > > For what its worth, Todd Underwood has a very good overview of the > countries affected by this outage over on the Renesys Blog here: > > http://www.renesys.com/blog/2008/01/mediterranean_cable_break.shtml while i very much ap

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

What I see from our Cogent transit is that Egypt has completely fallen off the map, with a normally consistent traffic gone to zero, but traffic to Iran, Iraq, the GCC, India and Pakistan and even Yemen doesn't seem to be affected, at least not noticeably. Regards Marshall On Jan 31, 200

Re: Sicily to Egypt undersea cable disruption

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 - -- Sean Donelan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >If its not one cable, its another cable. > >http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/jan/30/asia.internet.outage > >Huge swathes of the Middle East and Asia have been left without internet >access after