Re: cooling door

On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 6:06 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I doubt we'll ever see the day when running gigabit across > > town becomes cost effective when compared to running gigabit > > to the other end of your server room/cage/whatever. > > You show me the ISP with the majority of t

Re: cooling door

On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 3:06 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I doubt we'll ever see the day when running gigabit across > > town becomes cost effective when compared to running gigabit > > to the other end of your server room/cage/whatever. > > You show me the ISP with the majority of their

RE: cooling door

> I doubt we'll ever see the day when running gigabit across > town becomes cost effective when compared to running gigabit > to the other end of your server room/cage/whatever. You show me the ISP with the majority of their userbase located at the other end of their server room, and I'll conc

RE: cooling door

> Eg, I > click on a web page to log in. The login process then kicks > off a few authentication sessions with servers located > halfway around the world. Then you do the data gathering, 2 > phase locks, distributed file systems with the masters and > lock servers all over the place. Your hel

Re: cooling door

On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 16:48:47 MDT, Michael Loftis said: > Yeah except in a lot of areas there is no MAN, and the ILECs want to bend > you over for any data access. I've no idea how well the MAN idea is coming > along in various areas, but you still have to pay for access to it somehow, > and th

RE: cooling door

--On March 29, 2008 5:04:01 PM -0500 Frank Coluccio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Michael Dillon is spot on when he states the following (quotation below), although he could have gone another step in suggesting how the distance insensitivity of fiber could be further leveraged: The high spe

Re: cooling door

On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 8:24 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Here is a little hint - most distributed applications in > > traditional jobsets, tend to work best when they are close > > together. Unless you can map those jobsets onto truly > > partitioned algorithms that work on local copy, th

RE: cooling door

ry factors, we may be better off thinking in terms of costs in relation to amps. Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Boyle Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 10:29 PM To: Alex Pilosov; Paul Vixie Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: co

Re: cooling door

On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 11:24 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Let's make it simple and say it in plain English. The users > of services have made the decision that it is "good enough" > to be a user of a service hosted in a data center that is > remote from the client. Remote means in anoth

Re: cooling door

>Here is a little hint - most distributed applications in traditional jobsets, tend to work best when they are close together. Unless you can map those jobsets onto truly partitioned algorithms that work on local copy, this is a _non starter_.< I thought that I had made my view clear in this res

Re: cooling door

Matthew Petach wrote: On 3/29/08, Alex Pilosov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Can someone please, pretty please with sugar on top, explain the point behind high power density? Raw real estate is cheap (basically, nearly free). Increasing power density per sqft will *not* decrease cost, beyond

RE: cooling door

> Here is a little hint - most distributed applications in > traditional jobsets, tend to work best when they are close > together. Unless you can map those jobsets onto truly > partitioned algorithms that work on local copy, this is a > _non starter_. Let's make it simple and say it in plai

Re: cooling door

On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Frank Coluccio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Michael Dillon is spot on when he states the following (quotation below), > although he could have gone another step in suggesting how the distance > insensitivity of fiber could be further leveraged: Dillon is not on

Re: cooling door

> I have a need for a 1U that will just act as a backup (higher MX) mailserver > and, occasionally, deliver some large .iso images at under 10Mbit/Sec > :) And I'm sure that there are other technically saavy users just like me > that could help you out with this "surplus" space! :) see http

Re: cooling door

> I can lease 10 racks, > put T1600s in two of them, and leave the other 8 empty; but > that hasn't helped either me the customer or the exchange > point provider; they've had to burn more real estate for empty > racks that can never be filled Seems fine to me, you used your power in two racks, t

Re: latency (was: RE: cooling door)

Silly me. I didn't mean "turns" alone, but also intended to include the number of state "transitions" (e-o, o-e, e-e, etc.) in my preceding reply, as well. Frank A. Coluccio DTI Consulting Inc. 212-587-8150 Office 347-526-6788 Mobile On Sun Mar 30 16:47 , Frank Coluccio sent: >Mikael, I see y

Re: latency (was: RE: cooling door)

Mikael, I see your points more clearly now in respect to the number of turns affecting latency. In analyzing this further, however, it becomes apparent that the collapsed backbone regimen may, in many scenarios offer far fewer opportunities for turns, and more occasions for others. To the former

Re: latency (was: RE: cooling door)

On 30 Mar 2008 21:00:25 + Paul Vixie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ("Buhrmaster, Gary") writes: > > > > ... feed "tcp throughput equation" into your favorite search > > > engine for a lot more references.=20 > > > > There has been a lot of work in some OS stacks > > (Vis

Re: latency (was: RE: cooling door)

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ("Buhrmaster, Gary") writes: > > ... feed "tcp throughput equation" into your favorite search > > engine for a lot more references.=20 > > There has been a lot of work in some OS stacks > (Vista and recent linux kernels) to enable TCP > auto-tuning (of one form or another), ...

Re: cooling door

On 3/29/08, Alex Pilosov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Can someone please, pretty please with sugar on top, explain the point > behind high power density? > > Raw real estate is cheap (basically, nearly free). Increasing power > density per sqft will *not* decrease cost, beyond 100W/sqft, the

Re: cooling door

Perhaps this is apropos: Linkname: Slashdot | Iceland Woos Data Centers As Power Costs Soar URL: http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/08/03/29/2331218.shtml On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 23:29:18PM -0400, Robert Boyle wrote: > > At 02:11 PM 3/29/2008, Alex Pilosov wrote: > >Can some

RE: latency (was: RE: cooling door)

> ... feed "tcp throughput equation" into your favorite search > engine for a lot more references. There has been a lot of work in some OS stacks (Vista and recent linux kernels) to enable TCP auto-tuning (of one form or another), which is attempting to hide some of the worst of the TCP uglyn

RE: latency (was: RE: cooling door)

On Behalf Of > Mikael Abrahamsson > Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 12:30 PM > To: nanog@merit.edu > Subject: RE: latency (was: RE: cooling door) > > > On Sun, 30 Mar 2008, Fred Reimer wrote: > > > application to take advantage of the networks' capabilities. Mikael >

Re: latency (was: RE: cooling door)

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:03:18 +0800 Adrian Chadd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Oh, and kernel hz tickers can have similar effects on network > traffic, if the application does dumb stuff. If you're (un)lucky then > you may see 1 or 2ms of delay between packet input and scheduling > processing. Thi

RE: latency (was: RE: cooling door)

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008, Fred Reimer wrote: application to take advantage of the networks' capabilities. Mikael (seems to) complain that developers have to put latency inducing applications into the development environment. I'd say that those developers are some of the few who actually have a cl

RE: latency (was: RE: cooling door)

> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Paul Vixie > Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 10:35 AM > To: nanog@merit.edu > Subject: Re: latency (was: RE: cooling door) > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mikael Abrahamsson) writes

Re: latency (was: RE: cooling door)

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mikael Abrahamsson) writes: > ... > Back in the 10 megabit/s days, there were switches that did cut-through, > ie if the output port was not being used the instant the packet came in, > it could start to send out the packet on the outgoing port before it was > completely tak

Re: latency (was: RE: cooling door)

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008, Frank Coluccio wrote: Understandably, some applications fall into a class that requires very-short distances for the reasons you cite, although I'm still not comfortable with the setup you've outlined. Why, for example, are you showing two Ethernet switches for the fiber op

Re: cooling door

On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 06:54:02PM +, Paul Vixie wrote: > > > Can someone please, pretty please with sugar on top, explain the point > > behind high power density? Customers are being sold blade servers on the basis that "it's much more efficient to put all your eggs in one basket" without

Re: latency (was: RE: cooling door)

Understandably, some applications fall into a class that requires very-short distances for the reasons you cite, although I'm still not comfortable with the setup you've outlined. Why, for example, are you showing two Ethernet switches for the fiber option (which would naturally double the switch-

Re: latency (was: RE: cooling door)

On Sun, Mar 30, 2008, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > > On Sat, 29 Mar 2008, Frank Coluccio wrote: > > >Please clarify. To which network element are you referring in connection > >with > >extended lookup times? Is it the collapsed optical backbone switch, or the > >upstream L3 element, or perhaps b

Re: cooling door

At 02:11 PM 3/29/2008, Alex Pilosov wrote: Can someone please, pretty please with sugar on top, explain the point behind high power density? More equipment in your existing space means more revenue and more profit. Raw real estate is cheap (basically, nearly free). Increasing power density p

Re: latency (was: RE: cooling door)

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008, Frank Coluccio wrote: Please clarify. To which network element are you referring in connection with extended lookup times? Is it the collapsed optical backbone switch, or the upstream L3 element, or perhaps both? I am talking about the matter that the following topology:

Re: latency (was: RE: cooling door)

Please clarify. To which network element are you referring in connection with extended lookup times? Is it the collapsed optical backbone switch, or the upstream L3 element, or perhaps both? Certainly, some applications will demand far less latency than others. Gamers and some financial (program

latency (was: RE: cooling door)

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008, Frank Coluccio wrote: We often discuss the empowerment afforded by optical technology, but we've barely scratched the surface of its ability to effect meaningful architectural changes. If you talk to the server people, they have an issue with this: Latency. I've talked

RE: cooling door

I referenced LAN rooms as an expedient and to highlight an irony. The point is, smaller, less-concentrated, distributed enclosures suffice nicely for many purposes, similar to how Google's distributed containers and Sun Micro's Data Centers in a box do. And while LAN rooms that have been vacated,

RE: cooling door

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008, Frank Coluccio wrote: In fact, those same servers, and a host of other storage and network elements, can be returned to the LAN rooms and closets of most commercial buildings from whence they originally came prior to the How does that work? So now we buy a whole bunch o

RE: cooling door

Michael Dillon is spot on when he states the following (quotation below), although he could have gone another step in suggesting how the distance insensitivity of fiber could be further leveraged: >The high speed fibre in Metro Area Networks will tie it all together >with the result that for many

Re: cooling door

John Curran wrote: Chilled water to the rack implies multiple CDU's with a colorful hose and valve system within the computer room (effectively a miniature version of the facility chilled water loop). Trying to eliminate potential failure modes in that setup will be quite the adventure, which

Re: cooling door

At 7:06 PM + 3/29/08, Paul Vixie wrote: > > While the chilled water door will provide higher equipment >> density per rack, it relies on water piping back to a "Cooling >> Distribution Unit" (CDU) which is in the corner sitting by your >> CRAC/CRAH units. > >it just has to sit near the chilled

Re: cooling door

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Curran) writes: > While the chilled water door will provide higher equipment > density per rack, it relies on water piping back to a "Cooling > Distribution Unit" (CDU) which is in the corner sitting by your > CRAC/CRAH units. it just has to sit near the chilled water tha

RE: cooling door

> Can someone please, pretty please with sugar on top, explain > the point behind high power density? It allows you to market your operation as a "data center". If you spread it out to reduce power density, then the logical conclusion is to use multiple physical locations. At that point you ar

Re: cooling door

> Can someone please, pretty please with sugar on top, explain the point > behind high power density? maybe. > Raw real estate is cheap (basically, nearly free). not in downtown palo alto. now, you could argue that downtown palo alto is a silly place for an internet exchange. or you could no

Re: cooling door

On 29 Mar 2008, Paul Vixie wrote: > > page 10 and 11 of > says there's a way to move 20kW of heat away from a rack if your normal > CRAC is moving 10kW (it depends on that basic air flow), permitting six > blade servers in a rack. panduit l

Re: cooling door

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008, John Curran wrote: unit...I know that it would have to be quite a bit before many folks would: 1) introduce another cooling system (with all the necessary redundancy), and 2) put pressurized water in the immediate vicinity of any computer equipment. What could possibl

Re: cooling door

At 3:17 PM + 3/29/08, Paul Vixie wrote: >page 10 and 11 of says >there's a way to move 20kW of heat away from a rack if your normal CRAC is >moving 10kW (it depends on that basic air flow), permitting six blade servers >in a rack. panduit