Thus spake "Owen DeLong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On Feb 24, 2008, at 12:45 PM, Stephen Sprunk wrote:
The wording of the question and response referred only to "ARIN
members". That does not include most orgs with _only_ legacy
allocations, but it would include orgs with b
Thus spake "Tom Vest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On Feb 23, 2008, at 1:54 PM, Stephen Sprunk wrote:
Rechecking my own post to PPML, 73 Xtra Large orgs held 79.28% of ARIN's
address space as of May 07; my apology for a faulty memory, but it's not
off by enough to i
fore the
mega-mergers started; after all, you only need >/14 to be Xtra Large. Given
how most tend to operate in silos, they might still be separate orgs as far
as ARIN is concerned...
S
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "
ell into a decline, which isn't
going to happen for a long time. If that happens by 2020, I'll be
pleasantly surprised.
S
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSSdice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
's a suboptimal solution, though, for reasons too numerous to list.)
S
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSSdice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
the problem any better than RA/RS; you
have to fiddle with the hosts' routing tables to get things set up right.
S
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSSdice at ev
ut you
pay labor and sparing over and over.
S
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSSdice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
atch
themselves or bully vendors to patch), but that's all that's worth
discussing now. Short of someone from Microsoft indicating they'd post a
patch on Windows Update for Vista, XP, and possibly earlier systems, any
discussion of _when_ these addresses _might_ be usable on a publ
Thus spake "Iljitsch van Beijnum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On 2-okt-2007, at 15:56, Stephen Sprunk wrote:
Second, the ALGs will have to be (re)written anyways to deal
with IPv6 stateful firewalls, whether or not NAT-PT happens.
That's one solution. I like the hole punchin
ou're going to the trouble of making a killer app and
giving/selling it to the public, why wouldn't you include support for IPv4?
Virtually every "unique" feature of IPv6, except the number of bits in the
address, has been back-ported to IPv4. There is simply no other ad
Thus spake "Seth Mattinen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Stephen Sprunk wrote:
If you feel ARIN has not solved the PIv6 issue sufficiently well,
please take that argument to PPML. As of today, if you qualify
for PIv4 space, you qualify for PIv6 space automatically -- and
you only have
trivially" through v4 NAT will also work
"trivially" through NAT-PT and v6 stateful firewalls. The interesting apps
are the ones that don't work through NAT or firewalls without ALGs.
If you're making some silly argument about non-NAT v4 access, well, you're
over
you have a PIv6 block and ISPs won't route it,
please publicly shame the offending parties here so the rest of us will know
not to give them our money.
S
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, an
Thus spake Duane Waddle
On 10/2/07, Stephen Sprunk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If you think anyone will be deploying v6 without a stateful firewall,
you're delusional. That battle is long over. The best we can hope
for is that those personal firewalls won't do NAT as well.
ou think anyone will be deploying v6 without a stateful firewall, you're
delusional. That battle is long over. The best we can hope for is that
those personal firewalls won't do NAT as well.
S
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSSdice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
Thus spake "Iljitsch van Beijnum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On 1-okt-2007, at 19:56, Stephen Sprunk wrote:
There is no "IPv6 world". I've heard reference over and over to how
developers shouldn't add "NAT support" into v6 apps, but
the reality is tha
then all the whining about how "evil"
NAT-PT is is obviously bunk. We can't have it both ways, folks: either
NAT-PT breaks things and people would move to native v6 to get away from it,
or NAT-PT doesn't break things and there's no reason not to use it.
S
St
we run out of v4 addresses in a few years, what do you propose we
do? It makes little sense to tunnel v4 over v6 until v6 packets become the
majority on the backbones -- and the only way that'll happen is if everyone
dual-stacks or is v6-only. If everyone has v6 connectivity, then why
t will be their
motivation to get real IPv6 connectivity and turn the NAT-PT box off -- or
switch it around so they can be a v6-only site internally.
The alternative is that everyone just deploys multi-layered v4 NAT boxes and
v6 dies with a whimper. Tell me, which is the lesser of the two
(i.e. if the server says it's now 1 Jan 1980 00:00:00 and
an object expires on 31 Jan 1980 00:00:00, and my local time is now 18 Sep
2007 19:49:00, my client should actually use an expiration of 17 Oct 2007
19:49:00.) That's ugly.
S
Stephen Sprunk "God does not pla
degree _if it was ever correct
in the first place_. However, many people do not bother setting the clocks
at all (which will often result in a clock that's off by a decade or more),
or intentionally set them to be wrong. A lot of folks had to set their
clocks back a few years around Y2k, for insta
Thus spake "Kevin Loch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Stephen Sprunk wrote:
Sucks to be them. If they do not have enough PA space to meet
the RIR minima, the community has decided they're not "worthy"
of a slot in the DFZ by denying them PI space.
Not true, there is an
h no covering CIDR.
IMHO, such networks are broken and they should be filtered. If people doing
this found themselves unable to reach the significant fraction of the Net
(or certain key sites), they would add the covering route even if they were
hoping people would accept their incompetent/TE
with
another solution being proposed to allow longer-than-RIR-minima routes with
a short AS PATH.
S
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSSdice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
raffic in "soft"ware would be rather embarassing, right?
S
P.S. I'm writing this from behind a monopoly ISP who deliberately blocks
all proto 41 traffic, and thus 6to4, so I have no idea what content, if any,
the Experiment is actually providing... Anyone want to give me a Teredo
mean all security hinges on
making sure only authorized people vote, and only once at that; you can't
back out fraudulent votes after they're cast, which is why all of the
attacks are on the authorization system and being undetected in an audit
doesn't matter.
S
Stephen Sprunk
esn't matter what the other 2550 LIRs do because they're
insignificant factors in overall consumption.
S
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they know everything
CCIE #3723 are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
K5SSS --Isaac Asimov
ems, etc.) that're going to
eat us all alive in 3-4 years if things don't change Real Soon Now(tm).
Kudos to Apple for being the first vendor to wake up; let's hope the others
follow their lead in time to make a difference.
S
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think th
ems, etc.) that're going to
eat us all alive in 3-4 years if things don't change Real Soon Now(tm).
Kudos to Apple for being the first vendor to wake up; let's hope the others
follow their lead in time to make a difference.
S
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think th
- and certainly not one that's an adaptation of that evil NAT
stuff.
S
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they know everything
CCIE #3723 are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
K5SSS --Isaac Asimov
ntent
they didn't censor (either by intent or mistake). This was a particularly
interesting case, since the implication was that ISPs who _don't_ censor
content _are_ common carriers, which I don't think has otherwise been
touched upon in the US.
S
Stephen Sprunk &quo
me device will probably be a v4 NAT device; nobody is trying to take
that away because it's a necessary evil. However, NAT in v6 is not
necessary, and it's still evil.
S
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they know everything
CCIE #3723 are a
l, considering how good the aggregation is on paper, how do
we ever expect to get it working within a region?
S
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they know everything
CCIE #3723 are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
K5SSS --Isaac Asimov
larger-than-minimum blocks. OTOH, the community may see
how small the v6 table is and decide that N bits of deaggregation wouldn't
hurt. After all, with ~25k ASes today, and router vendors claiming to be
able to handle 1M+ routes, it seems we could tolerate up to 5 bits of
deaggregation --
ill probably constitute a critical
mass of clients and servers, but it doesn't solve the problem for the
growing underclass of folks who are and always will be stuck on PA and have
to suffer all the bad side effects of that.
S
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they know everything
CCIE #3723 are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
K5SSS --Isaac Asimov
housands of locations (with internal connectivity) that I have a problem
with calling each location a "site". Below that, it doesn't do much harm.
S
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they know everything
CCIE #3723 are a great annoyance to those of us who do.&qu
Thus spake "Jeroen Massar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Stephen Sprunk wrote:
First of all, there's disagreement about the definition of "site",
The general definition of a site that I find appropriate is and
works pretty well as a rule of thumb:
"A s
Thus spake "Stephen Sprunk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Someone recently posted a link (either on PPML or here -- I can't find it
now) that showed ARIN's minima for the various v4 and v6 blocks. The v4
ones were all over the map, but there are relatively few v6 blocks and a
continually whine about routing table bloat whenever loosening policies for
small orgs is discussed.
S
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they know everything
CCIE #3723 are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
K5SSS --Isaac Asimov
en advantage of that.
So, it's entirely possible someone could get a /40 and deaggregate that into
256 routes if they wanted to. Given the entire v6 routing table is around
700 routes today, it's obviously not a problem yet :)
S
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they kno
r is that a site with IPv4-only security devices has to
choose whether they're going to allow or block all Teredo/6to4 traffic. If
they want finer control, they need to upgrade to a native v6 network and
native v6 security devices.
S
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they know
(Yes, this means you can't just CNAME the service hostname to the real
hostname, but there are several other strategies.)
S
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they know everything
CCIE #3723 are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
K5SSS --Isaac Asimov
m are /32 except for one that's /48.
The upside is that in the block you're expected to accept /48s, nobody will
have a /32. The downside is that anyone who gets a larger-than-minimum
sized allocation/assignment can deaggregate down to that level.
S
Stephen Sprunk "Those pe
because it's cheaper and sounds better.
S
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they know everything
CCIE #3723 are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
K5SSS --Isaac Asimov
selves.
If you don't have anything to hide- then why should you care right?
On the other hand- these sorts of laws may just be enough to
push everyone to use encryption- and then what will LE do?
Arrest everyone! Have you forgotten the court ruling a year or two ago that
using PGP
need to use longer routes than the real
holders of the space?
To paraphrase Barbie, "security is hard; let's go shopping!"
S
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they know everything
CCIE #3723 are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
K5SSS --Isaac Asimov
ritative answer of 0.0.0.1 instead.
Of course, dealing with idiot consumers on a regular basis, their tech
support folks insist the problem is on the user's machine and that it's a
bug in their v6 stack, despite Ethereal captures showing the bad DNS
response packets coming from their box..
m apps that
still bomb when both ends have IPv6 and there's only a v4 path between them
(though most have been fixed over the last few years), but the OS is working
correctly.
S
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they know everything
CCIE #3723 are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
K5SSS --Isaac Asimov
;d be either something like 1400 bytes or 9000 bytes,
depending on whether the path included segments that hadn't been upgraded
yet...
S
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they know everything
CCIE #3723 are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
K5SSS --Isaac Asimov
nations and/or not as smart as it should be.
S
* HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Tcpip\
Parameters\EnablePMTUBHDetect=1
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they know everything
CCIE #3723 are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
K5SSS --Isaac Asimov
tightly
controlled environments like HPC or internal datacenters.
Perry Lorier's solution is rather clever; perhaps we don't even need a
protocol sanctioned by the IEEE or IETF?
S
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they know everything
C
ht be
another story, but most folks today use "jumbo" to mean packets of 8kB to
10kB, and "baby jumbos" to mean 2kB to 3kB.
S
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they know everything
CCIE #3723 are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
K5SSS --Isaac Asimov
till suck
because their gear is designed for consumers. Sticking with "residential"
service for your home office will pay for basic server colo space somewhere
else, and you'll get more for your money.
S
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think
ave a decent excuse for bad upload speeds; shared
bandwidth is bad enough, but in addition 1000 nodes transmitting to 1 node
is much tougher electrically than 1 node transmitting to 1000 nodes. Sooner
or later, they're going to have to start shrinking cell sizes and/or
allocating a heck o
ally put control traffic to/from the local node into a
separate path that completely bypasses the standard queueing mechanisms (and
predates operator-accessible QOS). In other routers, the control plane and
forwarding plane are segregated, which achieves the same goal but with a
rather dif
nd
downloading of "old" content.
Of course, this is a pointless discussion since residential multicast is
virtually non-existent today, and there's no sign of it being imminent.
Anyone want to take bets on whether IPmc or IPv6 shows up first? ;-)
S
Stephen Sprunk "
ws will
destroy them -- though that won't stop some dinosaurs from trying it.
S
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSSdice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
sta users will
pressure them to get their systems fixed, but I'm not holding my breath.
They'll probably just make "disable IPv6" part of their standard
troubleshooting routine, just like telling you to reboot your PC. After
all, nobody uses it, right?
S
Stephen Sprunk
h
people in Malaysia and Poland than with my next-door neighbor is the
ISPs' fault, not Bram's.
S
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSSdice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
URLs (or know where to find said URLs) even if there
is an option? Remember, we're talking about Joe Sixpack here, not
techies.
You would, however, be able to pick whatever STB you wanted (unless ISPs
deliberately blocked competitors' services).
S
Stephen Sprunk "God
roblem. This works better for me since all
my non-BT traffic isn't competing for limited port bandwidth, and it
works better for them since my BT traffic is unencrypted and easy to
de-prioritize -- but they don't limit it per se, just mark it to be
dropped first during congestion,
count for it, but an ISP runs too much risk of breaking
users' experiences when they apply caching indiscriminately to the
entire Web. Non-idempotent GET requests are the single biggest breakage
I ran into, and the proliferation of dynamically-generated "Web 2.0"
pages (or fault
folks are working on deals to integrate BT (the
protocol) into STBs, routers, etc. so that users won't even know what's
going on beneath the surface -- they'll just see a TiVo-like interface
and pay a monthly fee like with cable.
S
Stephen Sprunk "God does
rice of the 10% that isn't crap and give the other
90% away.
Of course, the logical solution is to quit producing crap so that such
games aren't necessary, but since when has any MPAA or RIAA member
decided to go that route?
S
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play d
ompensate the producers -- both
business problems, though for different folks. Interesting problems to
solve, but NANOG probably isn't the appropriate forum.
S
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSSdice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
account at the departure airport
hotspot to grab all my mail, work on it during the flight, and then use
the hotspot at the other end to send it all when I land. That's good
enough for a 2-5hr flight, and it doesn't get me in trouble with
accounting.
S
Stephen Sprunk "
ne day, but the little guys won for now. Even if
we're wrong, that's a good thing for a variety of reasons.
S
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSSdice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
table ZIP
code: it's mine for life as long as I pay for the service it came with,
no matter where I move. )
S
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSSdice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
fall below the standards
you're safe -- but you can't get more until you're back up to the
standards.
All in all, the process is decent, and it has community support. Ideal?
No, but nothing ever is when lawyers get involved.
S
Stephen Sprunk "God does no
fixes are more
likely to be routed, therefore refusing to grant larger prefixes (which
aren't justified, in ARIN's view) is another barrier to entry. Again,
since the folks deciding these policies are, by and large, folks who are
already major players in the market, it's easy
h Kremen construes as
being anticompetitive via creating artificial barriers to entry. That
may end up being changed.
S
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSSdice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
nd even
that worked for years; it just broke a few months ago.
The real killer is it's broken in both directions; I can't come up with
any legitimate reason for that. Inbound (to comcast), I could blame on
spam filters, but not outbound.
S
Stephen Sprunk "God does no
egitimate mail.
Perhaps people are using the wrong tools to solve the problems?
Because Comcast's tools are broken and when other mail admins or even
their own customers call them on it, they're not even competent enough
to understand the complaint and refuse to escalate?
S
es may be needed
to cut down on the whiney pirates.
(Besides, all the binaries on usenet are available via BitTorrent
somewhere anyways; NNTP does not make a good piracy protocol from a
technical perspective, only from an anonymity one)
S
Stephen Sprunk "God does not
but the HTTP
SRV could point to the typo-correction server. I'd not be inclined to argue
with such a setup, but it requires a refresh of every browser out there, so
it's not realistic.
S
Stephen Sprunk"Stupid people surround themselves with smart
CCIE #3723 people. Smart people surround themselves with
K5SSS smart people who disagree with them." --Aaron Sorkin
#x27;s extremely ugly, but that's what one gets for using private address
space. This exact scenario was a large part of why I supported ULAs for
IPv6.
S
Stephen Sprunk"Stupid people surround themselves with smart
CCIE #3723 people. Smart people surround them
ing in any other gTLD/ccTLD?
S
Stephen Sprunk"Stupid people surround themselves with smart
CCIE #3723 people. Smart people surround themselves with
K5SSS smart people who disagree with them." --Aaron Sorkin
from my message, and RAS didn't change it back to something
inoffensive when he replied to me. While one can certainly find reasons
to killfile RAS, this is not one of them.
Grow a sense of humor, already...
S
Stephen Sprunk"Stupid people surround themselves with smart
CCIE #37
r the legal risk of acting is, no matter how small, it's
not worth it.
On the plus side, after seeing D-Link's (lack of) reaction to this, I'll bet
none of us will buy another of their products again.
S
Stephen Sprunk"Stupid people surround themselves with smart
lt in suboptimal routing.
The correct** solution is to help them become an LIR, assuming they qualify.
S
* meaning a route for part of another ISP's aggregate
** for some values of "correct"
Stephen Sprunk"Stupid people surround themselves with smart
CCIE #3723
Thus spake "Daniel Golding" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On 3/6/06 10:25 AM, "Stephen Sprunk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
So, unless there's policy change, most end-user orgs will have no
choice but to pay the market rate for IPv4 addresses. Spot markets
are good wh
ns can do to keep the mess running; there's nobody left to
integrate anything and get the "synergistic cost savings" that management
touts when they propose mergers.
S
Stephen Sprunk"Stupid people surround themselves with smart
CCIE #3723 people. Smart p
Thus spake "Eliot Lear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Stephen Sprunk wrote:
Shim6 is an answer to "what kind of multihoming can we offer to sites
without PI space?"; it is yet to be seen if anyone cares about the
answer to that question.
This argument is circular. The only
is elastic, but we're faced with a market that has growing inelastic
demand that will outstrip fixed supply in a decade. Capitalism doesn't
handle that well.
S
Stephen Sprunk"Stupid people surround themselves with smart
CCIE #3723 people. Smart people surround
Thus spake "Tony Li" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Stephen Sprunk wrote:
Who exactly has been trying to find scalable routing solutions?
Well, for the last decade or so, there's been a small group of us who
have been working towards a new routing architecture. Primary
infl
er
spent on a scalable IDR solution. Luckily, we still have another decade or
so to come up with something.
S
Stephen Sprunk"Stupid people surround themselves with smart
CCIE #3723 people. Smart people surround themselves with
K5SSS smart people who disagree with them." --Aaron Sorkin
-- they'll want to issue their own certs to
squeeze revenue from non-customers. "You want to buy transit from our peers
instead of us? That's great. But, if you want reliable access to our
customers from your PI block, you have to pay $100/mo for a routing slot."
Bingo
choice. Isn't that about what happened with CIDR, in a
nutshell?
S
Stephen Sprunk"Stupid people surround themselves with smart
CCIE #3723 people. Smart people surround themselves with
K5SSS smart people who disagree with them." --Aaron Sorkin
Thus spake "Joe Abley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On 3-Mar-2006, at 11:48, Stephen Sprunk wrote:
That depends on your perspective. There's a compelling need for usable
multicast in many environments, and so far there's nobody (in the US)
with a compelling need for I
Thus spake "Iljitsch van Beijnum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Man, I hope I never become as cynical as you.
A pessimist is never disappointed.
On 2-mrt-2006, at 11:09, Stephen Sprunk wrote:
Why is it even remotely rational that a corporate admin trust 100k+
hosts infested with wo
length filters
accordingly so I couldn't reach the F root server over IPv6.
Moral of the story: if you build in a way for people to screw up, they'll
do it. After that, they'll start throwing out some babies with the bath
water.
There's a different policy for IPv6 mic
ng tables are well within our capabilities
and growing slowly. If we were on the verge of another serious problem,
like we where when the CIDR fire drill happened, ISPs could easily cut the
tables in half simply by filtering prefixes longer than RIR minima.
S
Stephen Sprunk"Stupid peop
Thus spake "Iljitsch van Beijnum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On 3-mrt-2006, at 17:04, Stephen Sprunk wrote:
Keep in mind that current RIR allocations/assignments are effectively
leases (though the RIRs deny that fact) and, like any landlord, they can
refuse to renew a lease or incr
;let the swamp in".
One of the key attributes of the v4 swamp is that most orgs got more than
one assignment (aka routing slot), often dozens to hundreds; the proposed
policies for a "v6 swamp" do not allow that.
S
Stephen Sprunk"Stupid people surround themselves wi
hed (itself no fixed date), and potentially much longer if
middlebox support is added (and without which shim6 will certainly never see
the light of day).
S
Stephen Sprunk"Stupid people surround themselves with smart
CCIE #3723 people. Smart people surround themselves with
K5SSS smart people who disagree with them." --Aaron Sorkin
it's very expensive.
Ah, but why? As long as IPv4 has similar or better performance
characteristics to IPv6, why would anyone _need_ to migrate? Add to that
the near certainty that vendors will create NAT devices that will allow an
entire v4 enterprise to reach the v6 Internet...
S
Step
n't interested,
some group of vendors will, if for no other reason than that's what will be
needed for the vendors to sell routers in a few years. Is it any surprise
that $vendor is pushing how many millions of routes they can handle in the
FIB today?
IPv6 is just a convenient pla
Thus spake "Scott Weeks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Stephen Sprunk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
ITYM two big transit LANs -- one must be prepared for a
switch to fail.
These're going to be router-to-router connections (each AR
is connected to both CRs) and I had
b/s in each
direction (two CRs connected to two switches each). Whether you break that
into PTP VLANs or shared VLANs shouldn't affect anything.
[ Note that this is moot since the OP responded he's running a physical
mesh ]
S
Stephen Sprunk"Stupid people surround the
d one more router. That's just too much
complexity for virtually no gain, and as Owen notes, it is generally bad for
your logical topology to not match the physical one.
S
Stephen Sprunk"Stupid people surround themselves with smart
CCIE #3723 people. Smart peopl
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