Re: A question for the newbies

Thanks for the web links. I already have book by Damian, and it's a good read. - Original Message - From: "Tyler MacDonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Foo Ji-Haw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Michael Greenish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "mod_perl" Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 11:19 AM Subject: Re

Re: A question for the newbies

> On Feb 16, 2006, at 10:18 PM, Foo Ji-Haw wrote: > > I think the biggest complaint about Perl, is that it is too > > symbolic (which > > I thought that its ugly code - caused in part by no standard coding > practices, and far too many people pushing 'theres more than one way > to do it' I actually

Re: A question for the newbies

I think people choose templating engines depending on how they want to use it. For me, HTML::Template is fairly ideal because it encourages me to focus on the business logic, and abstracts the presentation fairly well. By allowing only simple tag replacements and loops, it has so far allowed me to

Re: A question for the newbies

Foo Ji-Haw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I knew that perl could do OO and I couldn't find > > design patterns to go to the next step. > You brought up a good point. I wish someone will write a Design Patterns > book based on Perl... This helps: http://perldesignpatterns.com/perld

Re: A question for the newbies

> Did you ever try Template Toolkit? I'd say it's probably more popular than > HTML::Template, and much less restrictive (although you also have more rope to > hang yourself too) and can do everything that you mentioned below. What's the draw of Template Toolkit? I am a heavy user of HTML::Template

Re: A question for the newbies

On Feb 16, 2006, at 10:18 PM, Foo Ji-Haw wrote: I think the biggest complaint about Perl, is that it is too symbolic (which I thought that its ugly code - caused in part by no standard coding practices, and far too many people pushing 'theres more than one way to do it' On Feb 16, 2006

Re: A question for the newbies

> I knew that perl could do OO and I couldn't find > design patterns to go to the next step. You brought up a good point. I wish someone will write a Design Patterns book based on Perl... I've read up on Ruby (to understand the growing interest around it). It looks Perlish, and it's an interesting

Re: A question for the newbies

> Just an FYI, Perl 6 will use the dot notation for calling methods. I did an O'Reilly read on Perl 6. The new syntaxes for variable manipulation is a bit rough going for sunk-in Perl5 people like me. But more importantly: when will it ever be ready?!? ( I know there are no answers to this...)

Re: A question for the newbies

I think the biggest complaint about Perl, is that it is too symbolic (which I agreed when I started with Perl myself), making the learning curve steep. But looking back, I am now much better able to focus on the problem statement. Perl's TIMWTOWTDI attitude allows me to develop creatively, and cate

Re: A question for the newbies

Not to be racist, I am STILL cleaning up codes from an outsourced developer, despite their investment in OOP coding. It's not about procedural, or OO. It's the programming foundation and learning the best practices.   So go now and buy a Stas/ Damian (O'Reilly) book! :)   More importantly, h

Re: A question for the newbies

As long as the iffy stuff does not get boiled then it is fine.I meant apache. Just as in GPL 3, who knows what apache decided to go with in terms of licenses. If it stick to BSD then well then no need to worry about IIS or any other web server(But I still think that shouldn't matter). I thin

Re: mod_perl 2.0.0 + Apache 2.0.55 on Cygwin Win2k3

To give you some confidence in ActivePerl+mod_perl on Win32, I have 2 years back implemented a mini ERP system ENTIRELY on this same platform, with a call centre, reception, billing and invoicing, and other administrative components. It sits on a 2 simple servers: 1 for the application, and

Re: A question for the newbies

One of my hopes for mod_perl, is that it will evolve into a web server-independent layer, that can be put on IIS as well (for example). I do agree that Apache is a much stronger platform than IIS, but it is a bit iffy to put all the eggs in the same basket... - Original Message - From: "A

Re: mod_perl 2.0.0 + Apache 2.0.55 on Cygwin Win2k3

 The cause may be in your installation process (which should not be difficult). Maybe you relook the steps, or share the steps you took. - Original Message - From: Jason J. Czerak To: Foo Ji-Haw Cc: modperl@perl.apache.org Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:28 PM

Re: mod_perl 2.0.0 + Apache 2.0.55 on Cygwin Win2k3

I have not much experience with ActivePerl on non-Win32 platforms, so this is mostly my conjecture:   While ActivePerl is available on most popular platforms, it's strengths are mostly on the Windows platform, where many administrative and windows-centric components can be controlled. I have

Re: detecting server start, stop, graceful in startup.pl

Ken Perl wrote: > I add your code to my startup.pl, but it doesn't work. Change 'print' to warn and you should see the expected behaviour. The only exception is stop, that doesn't go thru a restart cycle, so the correct way to detect a shutdown is to register a server_shutdown callback like this

Re: A question for the newbies

On 2/16/06, Jonathan Vanasco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Feb 16, 2006, at 4:20 PM, Perrin Harkins wrote:> On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 22:14 +0100, Daniel McBrearty wrote:>> One question about the various template systems and mod_perl : is>> there not a performance hit in using these? and whatever the p

Re: A question for the newbies

On Thursday 16 February 2006 05:23 pm, Jonathan Vanasco wrote: > On Feb 16, 2006, at 4:20 PM, Perrin Harkins wrote: > > Probably slower. TT and Mason don't need to do any regexes because > > they have compiled the template to a perl sub. They don't have to parse > > the template at all after th

Re: A question for the newbies

On Feb 16, 2006, at 4:20 PM, Perrin Harkins wrote: On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 22:14 +0100, Daniel McBrearty wrote: One question about the various template systems and mod_perl : is there not a performance hit in using these? and whatever the performance hit is - remember that 90% of your proces

Re: A question for the newbies

On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 23:13 +0100, Daniel McBrearty wrote: > Can you give any recs on choosing a templating system if memory use is > also a factor? The one you have (CGI::FastTemplate) or Apache::SSI are pretty good in low-memory situations. Others like TT and HTML::Template can be set to not c

Re: A question for the newbies

Thanks Perrin. Great article. I remember reading it a while back, and was a bit overwhelmed with info at the time, but good to come back to it. It starts to fall into place more now.Can you give any recs on choosing a templating system if memory use is also a factor? My site currently runs on a VM

Re: mp2 and httpd 2.2 - future plans / roadmap?

Jie Gao wrote: > > > On Thu, 16 Feb 2006, Geoffrey Young wrote: > > >>there's no reason why mp2 shouldn't work with httpd 2.2 at the moment in >>almost all respects. in fact, the only thing that I can think of that will >>not work is the auth provider mechanism, but there's a CPAN module for

Re: mp2 and httpd 2.2 - future plans / roadmap?

On Thu, 16 Feb 2006, Geoffrey Young wrote: > > there's no reason why mp2 shouldn't work with httpd 2.2 at the moment in > almost all respects. in fact, the only thing that I can think of that will > not work is the auth provider mechanism, but there's a CPAN module for that, > too, so you shou

Re: A question for the newbies

On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 22:14 +0100, Daniel McBrearty wrote: > One question about the various template systems and mod_perl : is > there not a performance hit in using these? As opposed to not using anything? Yes. They are much faster than what people usually write on their own though. > If ther

Re: A question for the newbies

A quick word in amongst the other stuff - couldn't agree more about the horriblenes of PHP's treating hashes and arrays as one thing. It was a pretty instant put off for me when I looked at that language a year or two back. One question about the various template systems and mod_perl : is there not

Re: A question for the newbies

Just because I like to advocate TAL: First item? Even item? Odd item? Replaced by Foo{'blah'}{'var'} Replaced by Foo{'blah'}->method() template: renders in browser without code, as it would be seen is valid markup works in multiple languages

Re: A question for the newbies

This thread has brought out some quite interesting marketing (as in advocacy and understanding) issues so far - any volunteers for adding to or creating a FAQ about getting into mod_perl? John

Re: A question for the newbies

On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 10:10 -0800, Tyler MacDonald wrote: > OK, this is the fifth time this morning I've heard about > template::toolkit. It all started when a friend that I'm working on an AJAX > library with came up to me and said "hey, ingy's rewritten Template::Toolkit > in javascript! Th

Re: A question for the newbies

> "Tyler" == Tyler MacDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Tyler> Why am I forced to say Tyler> [% FOREACH(blah) foo %] Tyler> Instead of the Tyler> [% for my $i (@foo) %] Tyler> I've become happily used to? Because the day will come when you want to replace foo.a # get $foo->{

Re: A question for the newbies

On Feb 16, 2006, at 12:48 PM, Michael Greenish wrote: What I like about PHP over perl is the ease of variable declaration. I feel I have to use strict with perl, I would like the ability to not have to put "my" in front of every new variable. putting my / our before variables is good though.

Re: A question for the newbies

Perrin Harkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > My biggest complaint for perl for web apps, however, > > is the templating. I haven't found a template module > > in perl that rivals Smarty templates in PHP. > It sounds like you somehow missed Template Toolkit: > http://www.template-toolkit.org/docs/

Re: A question for the newbies

On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 09:48 -0800, Michael Greenish wrote: > What I like about PHP over perl is the ease of > variable declaration. I feel I have to use strict > with perl, I would like the ability to not have to put > "my" in front of every new variable. Probably 1/4 of > my errors when debuggin

Re: A question for the newbies

Some selective answers...(not really relevant to your present job, but maybe more helpful in the future) Michael Greenish wrote: > I looked around on the web for a while, tried > to study the modperl apache site's examples, but just > couldn't derive a good code example; I understood OO, > I knew

Re: A question for the newbies

Many people do not realize that the core of .NET is an open standard.  It was submitted to ECMA and approved 3 years ago.  There is, in fact, a pretty robust open source .NET project on SourceForge: Mono.  Since Java 5.0 was released, however, the interest in C# has decreased, and no one was ever

Re: A question for the newbies

I've been writing in perl for just over a year. I was a developer in embedded controls, but had an idea for a website and some free time so started learning perl. I had a strong C++ background so understood OO pretty well. I chose Perl because I had heard so much about it. My first site was pur

Re: mp2 and httpd 2.2 - future plans / roadmap?

On Feb 16, 2006, at 11:53 AM, Perrin Harkins wrote: Ohere's a set of instructions on how to download the source and add things to it: http://perl.apache.org/contribute/index.html - Perrin oh great! its in svn too. i'll send stuff to docs-dev asap. thanks!

Re: A question for the newbies

Well, I'm a newbie that has [and has used] a pink copy of the Camel book 1. I choose perl _BECAUSE_ it was antiquated then; awk, sed and perl had stood the test of time. Community? Perl was built by those with need for those with need;  I hear a corporation "owns" Java... and as for the creater of

Re: A question for the newbies

On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 09:42:49 -0500 "Mark Galbreath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I miss the reference dot notation of Java and other OO languages, > however. Why didn't Larry include that? And the 'use v. require' > issue seems silly to me. Why not a simple 'import' statement? And > the access

Re: MP2 PerlTransHandler and VirtualHosts

On Thu, Feb 16, 2006 at 11:31:00AM -0500, Geoffrey Young wrote: > > > Peter, Attila wrote: > > I did return DECLINED since I've read the documentation > > and it was clear to me that I had to return DECLINED, > > however, the handlers seemed to get stacked. > > > > So what happens is that if my

Re: mp2 and httpd 2.2 - future plans / roadmap?

On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 11:50 -0500, Jonathan Vanasco wrote: > what's the standard for submitting a new page / section ? is there a > template? There's a set of instructions on how to download the source and add things to it: http://perl.apache.org/contribute/index.html - Perrin

Re: mp2 and httpd 2.2 - future plans / roadmap?

On Feb 16, 2006, at 8:56 AM, Geoffrey Young wrote: there's no reason why mp2 shouldn't work with httpd 2.2 at the moment in almost all respects. in fact, the only thing that I can think of that will not work is the auth provider mechanism, but there's a CPAN module for that, too, so you s

Re: FW: MP2 PerlTransHandler and VirtualHosts

Peter, Attila wrote: > I did return DECLINED since I've read the documentation > and it was clear to me that I had to return DECLINED, > however, the handlers seemed to get stacked. > > So what happens is that if my PerlTransHandler for virtual host > foo returns declined the My::Foo handler wi

RE: FW: MP2 PerlTransHandler and VirtualHosts

I did return DECLINED since I've read the documentation and it was clear to me that I had to return DECLINED, however, the handlers seemed to get stacked. So what happens is that if my PerlTransHandler for virtual host foo returns declined the My::Foo handler will still run and if that one also r

RE: 2.02 make fails: cannot find -lperl

Title: RE: 2.02 make fails: cannot find -lperl Tom Setka wrote: > Apache 2.0.55 has been installed on my PC's hard drive So why not compile and install perl in the same [or a similar] directory structure? I always build all the tools I will need. Just a thought, Christian Werner

Re: A question for the newbies

I guess I'm still considered a mod_perl / perl newbie. I started learning perl 6 months ago in anticipation of translating a CMS (Content Management System) I wrote in PHP. I considered Python, and C++ as alternatives. C++ was over kill and would require way too much development just to get

Re: mod_perl 2.0.0 + Apache 2.0.55 on Cygwin Win2k3

Excellent!  Coding perl (this makes content relevant) allow you to ski Whistler/Blackcomb? >>> Tyler MacDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 16-Feb-06 09:56:51 AM >>> Mark Galbreath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> No, I'm saying modules that have been upgraded to 8.7 may no longer work> in a 5.6 envirnoment. 

2.02 make fails: cannot find -lperl

I am running Knoppix 3.7 from a CD, so can't modify anything in /lib, /usr/lib, etc. Apache 2.0.55 has been installed on my PC's hard drive and is correctly serving web pages. There is /usr/lib/libperl.so.5.8, which is a link to libperl.so.5.8.4 . Is there a way to tweak the build process to

RE: Reading post data from separate handlers

Hi, > > I have a problem that hopefully somebody has encountered or > can point me in the right direction. > > We use the latest embperl 1.xxx release on linux. I have > created a handler to do authentication before the embperl > handler is run. This new handler needs to read data from the >

Re: A question for the newbies

truly.  The only thing PHP ever had going for it as far as I can see is templating.  And the Perl Template Toolkit is way cooler than PHP's templating framework.   On the other hand, if you write OO PHP (available since version 5), it could develop into a robust scripting language.  But there are

Re: A question for the newbies

I started learning Perl about two years ago, and prior to that hadn't done any programming since my two pascal classes in highschool, except for a smattering of dos scripting. I had been mucking around with various linux distros and was fishing for a good language to get back onboard with, and

Re: mod_perl 2.0.0 + Apache 2.0.55 on Cygwin Win2k3

Let me make this CLEAR please. Activestate perl, or any other perl/mod_perl/Apache that I found for windows fails under any load with zero error messages in any of the log files.  I need to do some sort of trace or something to get any real info for you developers, this I know. But in the mean

Re: mod_perl 2.0.0 + Apache 2.0.55 on Cygwin Win2k3

Mark Galbreath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > No, I'm saying modules that have been upgraded to 8.7 may no longer work > in a 5.6 envirnoment. Mine didn't. Ahh. I'd upgrade to 5.8 in that case. ;-) > Way cool. Where (geographically) ru? Vancouver, BC, Canada. - T

Re: mod_perl 2.0.0 + Apache 2.0.55 on Cygwin Win2k3

No, I'm saying modules that have been upgraded to 8.7 may no longer work in a 5.6 envirnoment.  Mine didn't.   Way cool.  Where (geographically) ru?>>> Tyler MacDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED]> 16-Feb-06 08:56:17 AM >>     I'm kind-of confused here... are you saying that activeperl 8xxbuilds don't have

Re: A question for the newbies

I've been developing apps for business, ecommerce, and government in Java for 6 years.  I developed Web sites with Perl 5.0 CGI in the mid-1990s but never much cared for it outside of its excellent string maniulation, being attracted to the pure OO languages. I spent the last 2 years developing i

Re: A question for the newbies

I'm not exactly a newbie anymore, but I came to mod_perl by way of Perl scripts for the shell. I'd already written some PHP, but when I learned Perl I saw the error of my ways as it were and realized that PHP really is quite the makeshift language and that developing in Perl was far more comfortabl

Re: mod_perl 2.0.0 + Apache 2.0.55 on Cygwin Win2k3

Note what I left in this reply... I suppose I should of been more explicit in what I tried. AcriveState perl fails quicker then perl.org perl binaries that I found. On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 10:43 +0800, Foo Ji-Haw wrote:  Why don't you try ActivePerl instead of cygwin ?

Re: A question for the newbies

Well I'm more of an old-bie, but I've heard quite a few people recently (first hand) acknowledging that PHP (specifically) isn't really a 'serious' contender for enterprise web apps. (no flames please, I have no opinions!) I've also noticed my favourite news site* defining 'LAMP' as "Linux,

Re: mod_perl 2.0.0 + Apache 2.0.55 on Cygwin Win2k3

Mark Galbreath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At the office, installing ActivePerl just annoyed the sysadmins because it > didn't really break anything but I found myself in the position of begin > able to take advantage of some pretty cool modules (like IO::ALL, e.g.) > that have been upgraded or de

Re: mp2 and httpd 2.2 - future plans / roadmap?

Jonathan Vanasco wrote: > There's no roadmap on perl.apach.org for project status / milestones / etc > > can any maintainers comment on httpd2.2 support plans? there's no reason why mp2 shouldn't work with httpd 2.2 at the moment in almost all respects. in fact, the only thing that I can thin

Re: mod_perl 2.0.0 + Apache 2.0.55 on Cygwin Win2k3

> > At the office, installing ActivePerl just annoyed the sysadmins > because it didn't really break anything but I found myself in the > position of begin able to take advantage of some pretty cool modules > (like IO::ALL, e.g.) that have been upgraded or designed for 5.8 when > the infrastruct

Re: mod_perl 2.0.0 + Apache 2.0.55 on Cygwin Win2k3

A word of caution from personal experience here.   First, I love ActiveState' s stuff - I bought (out of my pocket) personal and pro licenses for Komodo 3.2 and 3.5.  I run ActivePerl 5.8 and ActivePython 2.4 on my Winblows and Linux boxes at home.  So what's the prob?   At the office, installing

A question for the newbies

It seems to me that a lot of people new to mod_perl and to Perl have joined this mailing list recently. And this is during a period when popular opinion (amongst those who know no better) seems to regard Perl as antiquated. I'm delighted that new people are joining. My question is, what prompted

Re: mod_perl 2.0.0 + Apache 2.0.55 on Cygwin Win2k3

It's free ;-) http://www.activestate.com/ Tom Jeff Pang wrote: >> Why don't you try ActivePerl instead of cygwin ? > > Is there any free version of ActivePerl£¿or how much should I pay for > it?thanks. > > - Original Message - > *From:* Jason J. Czerak

Re: mod_perl 2.0.0 + Apache 2.0.55 on Cygwin Win2k3

> Why don't you try ActivePerl instead of cygwin ?   Is there any free version of ActivePerl£¿or how much should I pay for it?thanks. - Original Message - From: Jason J. Czerak To: modperl@perl.apache.org Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:28 AM Subject: mod_perl 2.0.0 + Apache 2.