Re: [Mimblewimble] Scriptless scripting and deniable swaps

2017-04-09 Thread Andrew Poelstra
On Tue, Mar 07, 2017 at 02:18:53PM -0500, John Tromp wrote: > dear Andrew, > > >> Pieter Wuille in particular has stressed to me what a great feature of MW > >> it is > >> that everything looks the same, and that breaking this property should be > >> taken > >> very seriously. > > But with ever

Re: [Mimblewimble] Scriptless scripting and deniable swaps

2017-03-07 Thread Andrew Poelstra
On Tue, Mar 07, 2017 at 02:51:57PM -0500, John Tromp wrote: > > One comparison in each case; kernel.locktime >= blockindex > > So the costs are small, but better avoided altogether I agree. > > Can you elaborate on how to prove that the third privkey is indeed > equal to base^{2^largenumber} ? >

Re: [Mimblewimble] Scriptless scripting and deniable swaps

2017-03-07 Thread John Tromp
> The people constructing the locktimes are depending on the security of the > zero-knowledge proof (which could be as simple as just hashes being random > oracles) and the security of the timelock puzzles (RSA problem being hard). > >> I don't see the downside of simply requiring a locktime on eve

Re: [Mimblewimble] Scriptless scripting and deniable swaps

2017-03-07 Thread Andrew Poelstra
On Tue, Mar 07, 2017 at 02:18:53PM -0500, John Tromp wrote: > > He also suggested the locktime should be cancellable and extendable by > > having > > the would-be recipient reveal a key to the sender, but we didn't work out > > all > > the details. If this works then we should be able to get the

Re: [Mimblewimble] Scriptless scripting and deniable swaps

2017-03-07 Thread John Tromp
dear Andrew, >> Pieter Wuille in particular has stressed to me what a great feature of MW it >> is >> that everything looks the same, and that breaking this property should be >> taken >> very seriously. But with every kernel having both a fee and a locktime (which defaults to the last confirme

Re: [Mimblewimble] Scriptless scripting and deniable swaps

2017-03-07 Thread Andrew Poelstra
On Fri, Feb 03, 2017 at 10:42:14PM +, Andrew Poelstra wrote: > > Pieter Wuille in particular has stressed to me what a great feature of MW it > is > that everything looks the same, and that breaking this property should be > taken > very seriously. > In this line of thinking, I gave a prese

Re: [Mimblewimble] Scriptless scripting and deniable swaps

2017-03-07 Thread John Tromp
A while ago I had a chat with Andrew in https://gitter.im/grin_community/Lobby where he helped explain multi signature transactions to me, and I thought it might benefit others as well to explain the atomic swap below in more detail. So the setting is that Igno holds some coins on the MW altchain,

Re: [Mimblewimble] Scriptless scripting and deniable swaps

2017-02-03 Thread Merope Riddle
In the vein of "scriptless scripting", it's worth noting that the signature challenge e = `H(key || nonce || message)` can itself be considered a hash whose preimage needs to be revealed to produce a valid signature. Two parties can produce a multisignature by having one present his pubkey/nonce

[Mimblewimble] Scriptless scripting and deniable swaps

2017-02-03 Thread Andrew Poelstra
I recently described how to do hash-preimage challenges in MimbleWimble by adding the ability to sign hashes and consensus-requiring the preimage to be revealed for this signature to be considered valid [1]. This was met by concerns about additional complexity, trying to use features before the