Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

Certainly not with all spam traps, but if someone is reviewing the data, and trying to decide what to do with a sample, an "Open" message might get sent in error. But a reply should never be sent, and so a classical SpamTrap would not pass a COI test. ... unless it had gathered dust for a

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

> On Mar 7, 2018, at 4:38 PM, Stefano Bagnara wrote: > > Let's take into consideration that spamtrap network have to do their > homework to avoid being identified easily, so if they never do > opens/clicks they already put a big flash on them. So I think it is OK > for a spamtrap to open/click o

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

> On Mar 7, 2018, at 4:38 PM, Stefano Bagnara wrote: > > On 8 March 2018 at 01:02, Laura Atkins wrote: >> [...] >> Sure, we agree. But there are folks who don’t agree with us. Some of those >> folks run spamtrap networks that feel blocklist data. I think it’s important >> to acknowledge that. A

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

On 8 March 2018 at 01:02, Laura Atkins wrote: > [...] > Sure, we agree. But there are folks who don’t agree with us. Some of those > folks run spamtrap networks that feel blocklist data. I think it’s important > to acknowledge that. At one point you could do COI and still get on a > blocklist beca

Re: [mailop] Old lists - how old?

> On Mar 7, 2018, at 3:18 PM, Brett Schenker wrote: > > For political/non-profits, I tell my clients that about 1/3 of the list goes > bad each year. The math usually works out when they send after not listening. https://wordtothewise.com/2015/07/yes-there-is-list-churn/

Re: [mailop] Old lists - how old?

Speaking for myself, if I were managing such mailings, anything longer than 3 months and I'd wanna toss it and start over. Or at the very least, send it out from a dedicated IP pool different from the ones used by the main lists. Aloha, Michael. -- Michael J Wise Microsoft Corporation| Spam An

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

> On Mar 7, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Stefano Bagnara wrote: > > On 8 March 2018 at 00:08, Laura Atkins wrote: >> [...] >> I don’t either, but I am not fighting language with folks. > > I'm sorry Laura. My mother language is not english and your "tone" is > unexpected to me, so I probably used wrong t

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

On 8 March 2018 at 00:08, Laura Atkins wrote: > [...] > I don’t either, but I am not fighting language with folks. I'm sorry Laura. My mother language is not english and your "tone" is unexpected to me, so I probably used wrong translations for my questions. No need to fight anything.. I'm just d

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

On 3/7/2018 4:12 AM, Stefano Bagnara wrote: On 2 March 2018 at 21:45, John Johnstone wrote: One concern with respect to hat color I was thinking about was if there is a significant security threat from spear-phishing that is facilitated by the validating / guessing. From what has been menti

Re: [mailop] Old lists - how old?

For political/non-profits, I tell my clients that about 1/3 of the list goes bad each year. The math usually works out when they send after not listening. On Mar 7, 2018 6:05 PM, "Steve Atkins" wrote: > > > On Mar 7, 2018, at 2:36 PM, Hal Murray wrote: > > > > > >> Some of them do and clearly s

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

In article <760493287b1f4d1888261519139f3...@infusionsoft.com> you write: >In the worst examples I've seen, the domain went from a legitimate mail server >to a trap network in the same day, with no time for bounces in between. It's hard to believe any BL that anyone actually uses would do that.

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

> On Mar 7, 2018, at 2:19 PM, Stefano Bagnara wrote: > > On 7 March 2018 at 22:52, Laura Atkins wrote: > >> In other >> cases, some compliance folks will data mine to find spamtrap domains when a >> blacklist is telling them that they are listed due to spamtrap hits. I’m >> pretty sure I’m not

Re: [mailop] Old lists - how old?

> On Mar 7, 2018, at 2:36 PM, Hal Murray wrote: > > >> Some of them do and clearly states how many months they keep a 5xx error >> before turning the domain into a spamtrap. > > Is there a BCP or consensus on how long a list can sit inactive before it > should be thrown away? I don't think

[mailop] Old lists - how old?

> Some of them do and clearly states how many months they keep a 5xx error > before turning the domain into a spamtrap. Is there a BCP or consensus on how long a list can sit inactive before it should be thrown away? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

On 7 March 2018 at 22:52, Laura Atkins wrote: > There are companies that have commercialized spamtraps and at least 2 of the > delivery monitoring companies will tell you when you’ve hit a trap. Sure I know.. that's why I'm asking what is the network. If someone sells spamtrap hits data and the s

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

> On Mar 7, 2018, at 12:12 PM, Stefano Bagnara wrote: > > On 7 March 2018 at 20:25, David Carriger > wrote: >> In the worst examples I've seen, the domain went from a legitimate mail >> server to a trap network in the same day, with no time for bounces in >> between. > > Are you 100% sure? Whi

Re: [mailop] SCL Rating Level of consideration at Hotmail

That's a per-email issue, and they wouldn't typically look at it. It's all about what the Black Box known as SmartScreen thinks about the traffic, and that's based on Features of the email, domain rep, and other factors. Aloha, Michael. -- Michael J Wise Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis "Yo

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

And is it on-going? From time to time, misteaks happen. Aloha, Michael. -- Michael J Wise Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis "Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed." Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool ? -Original Message

Re: [mailop] SCL Rating Level of consideration at Hotmail

On 7 March 2018 at 20:48, Tony Rose wrote: > Does anyone on the list know how much creedence the Outlook Deliverability > Support Team puts into the Spam Confidence Level? > > I have seen quite a few messages still get filtered into the junk folder > with a SCL of 1. AFAIK an High SCL may cause y

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

On 7 March 2018 at 20:25, David Carriger wrote: > In the worst examples I've seen, the domain went from a legitimate mail > server to a trap network in the same day, with no time for bounces in > between. Are you 100% sure? Which trap network? How did you find it was a trap? Can you share anythin

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

> On Mar 7, 2018, at 11:53 AM, Michael Wise via mailop > wrote: > > > I thought there was a BCP on SpamTraps that if they were automatic, they had > to 5xx all traffic for 6 months? https://www.m3aawg.org/spmtrp It does discuss some of the issues, and advises 5xx SMTP-level rejection for

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

> On Mar 7, 2018, at 11:25 AM, David Carriger > wrote: > > I'm a bit late to the discussion, but I've seen cases where a legitimate > domain name will expire and be converted to a spam trap within a week. Then > the original domain owner will renew it before it goes back to the registry, > a

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

I thought there was a BCP on SpamTraps that if they were automatic, they had to 5xx all traffic for 6 months? Aloha, Michael. -- Michael J Wise Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis "Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed." Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool

[mailop] SCL Rating Level of consideration at Hotmail

Hi, Does anyone on the list know how much creedence the Outlook Deliverability Support Team puts into the Spam Confidence Level? I have seen quite a few messages still get filtered into the junk folder with a SCL of 1. -kildrone ___ mailop mailin

[mailop] Heads-up if you're running exim

400k servers may be at risk of serious code-execution attacks. Patch now https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/03/code-execution-flaw-in-exim-imperils-400k-machines-have-you-patched/ ---rsk ___ mailop mailing list mailop@

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

I'm a bit late to the discussion, but I've seen cases where a legitimate domain name will expire and be converted to a spam trap within a week. Then the original domain owner will renew it before it goes back to the registry, and it will point back to its pre-expiry MX records. In the worst ex

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

I can see a one-shot pass to validate an email address that was just added (and then there’s the whole question of hitting, “First Contact” limits…), but trying to guess the address? Um, No. Also, no further contact at all if they do not respond. That, plus making sure to send something wanted

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

I work in the nonprofit/political space and while I can see uses to make sure offline email list building (think people on a corner asking you to sign up/sign a petition) has had the addresses typed in correctly, list washing/validating is unfortunately being used by more orgs and campaigns as a wa

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

> >> Also, if I'm not mistaking, list-validation services are mainly targeting >> online businesses, so even if the there might be legit cases, I doubt the >> biggest part of their revenues is. > > I'm not really familiar with their revenue model but I do know that for > some of them, spammers an

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

On Wed, 2018-03-07 at 12:31 +, Benjamin BILLON wrote: > Good point. > However, things change, and this norm should evolve with the involved > technologies; also, maybe this data quality process, if abusing third- > parties resources (like RCPT TO: for nothing), is not an acceptable > process.

Re: [mailop] Anyone from Gmail ?

> On Mar 6, 2018, at 3:48 AM, Vaibhav wrote: > > Currently we are sending emails with same setup with avg. 5% OR ( might few > users are getting email in inbox ) where domain still carries low reputation > & IP's are in HIGH reputation. Its been 15 days where we don't see any > improvement he

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

On 7 March 2018 at 13:20, Ken O'Driscoll via mailop wrote: > There are some industries where offline data acquisition is the norm and > validation is seen as part of the data quality process. "norm" is not so good as a "valid" reason: - what's the point of *validation* for these industries? - wha

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

Good point. However, things change, and this norm should evolve with the involved technologies; also, maybe this data quality process, if abusing third-parties resources (like RCPT TO: for nothing), is not an acceptable process. Offline acquisition of online-related data (an email address, for in

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

On Wed, 2018-03-07 at 11:21 +, Benjamin BILLON wrote: > To me the list-validators are dark grey hats. Their real-time service can > be legit. The rest, I don't see how. There are some industries where offline data acquisition is the norm and validation is seen as part of the data quality proce

Re: [mailop] Microsoft IPs automatically unsubscribing recipients?

Hi John, > If you don't like the way we handle your mail... I never stated anything like that. I was discussing the fact that I think it is not an effective method since it can be gamed and has quite some false positives. I agree with your reply. I always have and always will. I just don't think

Re: [mailop] Anyone from Gmail ?

> Do you believe "open rate" metrics are that accurate? That depends on the domain and the user-agent in question. Some load images automatically when viewing the message. > If bulk senders routinely detect when a user opens messages, that user is not following basic email safety principles I am

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

Wow, what did the CampaignMonitor folks eat? "Verifying emails is an email marketing best practice": guys, CONTEXT, please. Dropping catchy headlines like bombs is not making you any good. Then quoting someone about real-time verification in a part about "List decay" either his a badly orchestr

Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

On 2 March 2018 at 21:45, John Johnstone wrote: > [...] > It seems somebody gave some fairly purposeful thought into coming up with > the algorithms to generate these. I'm curious to know what peoples thinking > is as to the hat color of these attempts. Particularly if there are any > opinions o